Author Topic: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!  (Read 823528 times)

Haliburton

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #650 on: June 29, 2013, 05:17:06 AM »
Oh I hear you, DerekDock - definitely working within the 60D’s limitations, myself! :)

Agreed too, that the cost of high-speed media for CF card cameras is a flustercluck.

At least with your 6D, you will have Canon’s fastest implementation of SD card interface, perhaps twice as fast as 60D.

With 12 Class 10 and 3 UHS-1 (all 32 GB) cards for my 60D and 600D (T3i) cameras, I am sick and tired of buying flash memory!

1000x + CF cards cost so much, and some seem so flaky when pushed to their maximum speeds, that what I hold out most hope for is the CF to SSD interface being worked on at
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5470.0

Then I can skip all the Toshiba/SanDisk/Komputerbay/Toshiba BS and start buying common, reliable, reasonably-priced, HUGE SSDs.

As someone who often needs to record long takes, the amount of money I save by not buying crazy-priced fast CF cards will pay for the difference in cost to buy a 5D MkIII, soon enough :)

@ 1% : “Heh, 6D is 5d3 JR”   <— heh heh :)


I see your points but I'm finding that I don't need the record times afforded by the Cf card cams. With the 6D I can record 1080 2.35 for almost 20 seconds (in theory as I don't have it yet). Which is perfect for me as the data and cost of media gets out of control on the 5D mk3.

For $900 less than the 5D I can have the 6D with mosaic filter and have the same image quality, a nice form factor, and more manageable data. That works for me and gives me $ to spend on glass and creative cloud. I also have unlimited access to two Mark3s owned by my brother and a friend, so if I find I need one its a phone call and an hours drive away.

I have a 60D as well and have been shooting a good amount of RAW on it even with a SD bottleneck that is much worse than on the 6D. I'm sure ill be stoked.

Really now my only concern is getting the 6D to play nice with RAWmagic so my workflow can be smoother. But the VAF purchase is likely coming sooner than later.

CharlieA56

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #651 on: June 29, 2013, 11:25:06 PM »
Finally.. my first (above 10 seconds) production with the RAW capabilities in the Canon 60D.
Using a Tamron 18-250mm at f/8.0 and 48fps shutter speed. ISO 100-1000.



Recorded at 1600x928 24fps... DNG files imported into ACR... White Balance, Saturation, Sharpening, Exposure and some Noise Reduction directly in ACR before AE... Upscaling to 1920x1080 (it was really 1920x1113) using Magic Bullet InstantHD.
No calibration target when recording, so the White Balance is so inconsistent.
Canon 6D, Canon 60D, Canon T2i & Canon T1i

cthornhill

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #652 on: June 30, 2013, 01:51:30 AM »
I ran a little test outside today with my Tokina 11-16 and the Mosaic VAF-60D...nothing very fancy, but it shows a quick shot of downtown, and demonstrates the improvements you may see on fine detail in raw with the VAF-60. I put the shots on my dropbox folder:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eq8pqvw8pv3di6m/IzK709GYiz

The two shots are not totaly identical (had to dodge some weather and hence moved about a bit,  nor are they fancy. I just grabbed some quick shots in between storms. Both are done at 11mm, 2.39:1, 1600 x 670, ISO 100, and were exposed 'hot' at around F11 (in ACR I pulled them about 1.3 stops). The sun was coming and going really fast changing the conditions by over a stop, so I just depended on raw 'eating the light' and really did not worry after I took a general meter reading of foot-candle levels before I got to to the scene.  I wanted to use deep focus, and a wide, as a challenge to the filter's performance. I rendered the clips as lossless AVI, and pulled these stills from the Premier screen.

You may or may not agree but I see much more fine pattern noise in the details of the image without the VAF-60. There is still a tiny bit in the image with the filter, but only in a few diagonal fine features (railings). Overall I am reasonably convinced that the VAF-60D does help reduce image artifacts in raw, but not as well as it controls them in H264. I personally believe this is due to the raw file having more acuity and hence more artifacts are visible that would be lost to the processing done to the H264 image. I would suggest that for most subjects that could have issues with moire or aliasing due to fine line or pattern detail,it is useful to put the filter in place if you own it. I expect to just leave it in place, as I don't do still work on that camera.

Of course others may not agree, and your mileage may vary...:-). Of course controlling depth of field with wider stops (and ND) or longer lenses is also going to help, this was intended as a test with no other mitigating steps.

At this point, I am pretty satisfied that the filter does help, does not perform quite as well in raw as in H264 for what I expect are several reasons, and I really am not sure there is a lot more to say about it...I expect it is not a purchase everyone will want or feel the need to consider, but for those of us that are motivated to address the issue of aliasing and moire, are looking for an optical solution (not just technique or software), and have the funds, I think (just my opinion) the VAF-60 is a nice option.

Audionut

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3565
  • Blunt and to the point
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #653 on: June 30, 2013, 03:12:30 AM »
Thanks for the test.

I think (just my opinion) the VAF-60 is a nice option.

The bridge railing and the white railing would be enough for me to purchase one if I used that body.

cthornhill

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #654 on: June 30, 2013, 06:11:09 AM »
Audionut - yeah that would have sold me too. I did lots more shots I have not rendered yet of some other closer buildings (there was a crane in the background and some power lines), and I will try and get to them tomorrow or Monday. I will post if if things look interesting.

I also have to say raw handled the exposure range and changes really well...you can just hit this format with a LOT of light and still stay safe. Very nice since at this point histogram or waveform or even spot meter are all off (with global draw).

Audionut

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3565
  • Blunt and to the point
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #655 on: June 30, 2013, 07:34:45 AM »
Very nice since at this point histogram or waveform or even spot meter are all off (with global draw).

Are you using the raw based (histogram/spotmeter/zebras) ones?

cthornhill

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #656 on: June 30, 2013, 09:27:03 AM »
Well, they are (unless I missed something) shut off when global draw is off, but yes I mean the ones for raw. With the fast moving clouds it would not have made much difference yesterday, as I would have had to ride the apature to a silly level.

os6

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #657 on: June 30, 2013, 12:25:29 PM »
Hi There,

I'm new here and I wonder if it's possible to use the USB Data stream too, to improve the recording Time? I just started Checking the RAW-videostuff with my 60D. I Like the RAW-Video Croping /3x-"Digital-Zoom" while Raw-Recording and another question is, is it posible to make an 3x Croping Mode for HD videos with the H.264?

Thanks and tell me if it's the wrong Topic 4 the post.

marekk

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 331
  • www.oddajmisie.com
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #658 on: July 01, 2013, 09:40:15 PM »
I've just corrected white balance settings in chdk-dng.c so after commit initial image should look better..

https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/pull-request/135/chdk-dngc-fixed-as-shot-neutral-white/diff

Nang

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • 5D3 | BMPCC | BMPC4K
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #659 on: July 02, 2013, 03:00:37 AM »
Hey guys here's my first video I shot using the raw format:


It was shot in 960x544 and then I output to 1280x720 (psd) from Lightroom and edit in Premiere Pro.

I have a few questions: Are there any simple solution to reducing/eliminating moire and aliasing? I know there's the VAF-60D, but it's way too expensive for me. Can anyone recommend a good efficient workflow? I don't know if my mind can handle going into 50+ folders in Lightroom, white balancing/tweaking them, and playing the waiting game while exporting each into PSD files again.

Thanks
Portfolio: somnang.4ormat.com | Video: https://vimeo.com/somnang
Prime: Olympus Zuiko OM 24mm f/2.8 | Rokinon Cine 85mm T/1.5 | Pentax SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4 | Helios 44-2 58mm f/2.0 | Jupiter 37A 135mm f/3.5
Zoom: Meteor 5-1 17-69mm f/1.9, Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8, Tamron 24-70mm Di VC f/2.

Nickbibs

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #660 on: July 02, 2013, 05:12:05 PM »
Hey guys here's my first video I shot using the raw format:


It was shot in 960x544 and then I output to 1280x720 (psd) from Lightroom and edit in Premiere Pro.

I have a few questions: Are there any simple solution to reducing/eliminating moire and aliasing? I know there's the VAF-60D, but it's way too expensive for me. Can anyone recommend a good efficient workflow? I don't know if my mind can handle going into 50+ folders in Lightroom, white balancing/tweaking them, and playing the waiting game while exporting each into PSD files again.

Thanks

That was really nicely done video!! Awesome!!! I am too looking for a solution for the moire and aliasing.

KahL

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • kahleem poole-tejada.CINEMATOGRAPHER
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #661 on: July 02, 2013, 06:39:17 PM »
Hey guys here's my first video I shot using the raw format:


It was shot in 960x544 and then I output to 1280x720 (psd) from Lightroom and edit in Premiere Pro.

I have a few questions: Are there any simple solution to reducing/eliminating moire and aliasing? I know there's the VAF-60D, but it's way too expensive for me. Can anyone recommend a good efficient workflow? I don't know if my mind can handle going into 50+ folders in Lightroom, white balancing/tweaking them, and playing the waiting game while exporting each into PSD files again.

Thanks

If you have a CUDA based card, then Davinci Resolve Lite is your best friend. Saves a TON of time processing the raw frames.

Abstrak

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #662 on: July 02, 2013, 09:28:40 PM »
Hey guys here's my first video I shot using the raw format:


It was shot in 960x544 and then I output to 1280x720 (psd) from Lightroom and edit in Premiere Pro.

I have a few questions: Are there any simple solution to reducing/eliminating moire and aliasing? I know there's the VAF-60D, but it's way too expensive for me. Can anyone recommend a good efficient workflow? I don't know if my mind can handle going into 50+ folders in Lightroom, white balancing/tweaking them, and playing the waiting game while exporting each into PSD files again.

Thanks

I was skeptical about shooting 960x544 but uprezzed to 720 looks better than 1080 h.264 for sure. I'm going to try and shoot something at that resolution during the 4th. How many frames were you getting its probably pretty high.

sarotaz

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #663 on: July 02, 2013, 09:29:17 PM »
If you have a CUDA based card, then Davinci Resolve Lite is your best friend. Saves a TON of time processing the raw frames.

it's true but dng 14 bit files are not supported in resolve and this is the real bottleneck in workflow. Yes... you can convert dng files in prores but it's another pass in your workflow.
Someone is developing a cinema dng converter but it's not optimized for 60D and bad pixel are still alive.

sarotaz

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #664 on: July 02, 2013, 09:35:22 PM »
How many frames were you getting its probably pretty high.

I think you can record continuosly with fast card. In that resolution and with sandisk 45 mb/s i shoot to 19/20 mb/s (global draw off) and buffer is never fully loaded.

allswedish

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #665 on: July 02, 2013, 10:54:57 PM »
This is a quick test I just did. I'm running the 9th update from the first page of this post.


Still toying with the settings. Finding I have a lot of latitude on the brights than I ever did with h264, which is a little confusing when shooting (i've shot so much h264 I literally automatically underexpose now) but awesome to know going forward.

Nang

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • 5D3 | BMPCC | BMPC4K
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #666 on: July 02, 2013, 11:37:45 PM »
If you have a CUDA based card, then Davinci Resolve Lite is your best friend. Saves a TON of time processing the raw frames.

I really really want to try out Resolve, but I'm running on an Alienware 18x r2 laptop with Radeon cards :/


I was skeptical about shooting 960x544 but uprezzed to 720 looks better than 1080 h.264 for sure. I'm going to try and shoot something at that resolution during the 4th. How many frames were you getting its probably pretty high.

I actually don't know how many frames, but never had any skipped frames in any of my recording at 960x544. I believe it's near continuous at this resolution? On my last shoot (another model) I switched up to 1280x544. The image quality is better compared to 960x544 uprezzed, but it was annoying having to stop at certain points and waiting for the buffer to empty. I missed out on a some good looks from the model because of this.
Portfolio: somnang.4ormat.com | Video: https://vimeo.com/somnang
Prime: Olympus Zuiko OM 24mm f/2.8 | Rokinon Cine 85mm T/1.5 | Pentax SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4 | Helios 44-2 58mm f/2.0 | Jupiter 37A 135mm f/3.5
Zoom: Meteor 5-1 17-69mm f/1.9, Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8, Tamron 24-70mm Di VC f/2.

ric64b

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #667 on: July 03, 2013, 02:15:37 AM »
This question may have already been answered but is there a reason why in the latest build there's no option to record a separate audio file?

sarotaz

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #668 on: July 03, 2013, 06:38:05 PM »
@marekk

Does bad_pixel opticode work only with adobe products? I wonder if that could be added this feature in other converter like rawmagic/eyeframe or it is only for raw2dng.

I try to convert with this software (more time-saving) but black and hot pixel are still visible. I can reinstall version with LV_AF_RAW but losing all new feature. What do you recommend?

marekk

  • Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 331
  • www.oddajmisie.com
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #669 on: July 03, 2013, 06:44:50 PM »
@marekk

Does bad_pixel opticode work only with adobe products? I wonder if that could be added this feature in other converter like rawmagic/eyeframe or it is only for raw2dng.

I try to convert with this software (more time-saving) but black and hot pixel are still visible. I can reinstall version with LV_AF_RAW but losing all new feature. What do you recommend?

I don't know it other products support this feature. We are waiting for support of badpixel_opcode in rawmagic and raw2cdng to test if Davinci Resolve removes hot pixels automatically. You can open DNG files in RawTherapee. There is a Dead/hot pixel filter which removes all bad pixels with or without badpixel_opcode. We can't open files from raw2dng in Davinci Resolve to test it now because it doesn't support 14bit.

sarotaz

  • Freshman
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #670 on: July 03, 2013, 07:30:41 PM »
I don't know it other products support this feature. We are waiting for support of badpixel_opcode in rawmagic and raw2cdng to test if Davinci Resolve removes hot pixels automatically. You can open DNG files in RawTherapee. There is a Dead/hot pixel filter which removes all bad pixels with or without badpixel_opcode. We can't open files from raw2dng in Davinci Resolve to test it now because it doesn't support 14bit.

ok i'll still waiting. My purpose is try to convert raw in final prores444 or 422 but without after effects or photoshop pass.
Now i convert in dng, convert in tiff and reconvert in prores for grading with resolve. Is this only way?

allswedish

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #671 on: July 04, 2013, 01:40:02 AM »
Just got 1514 frames at 960x540 on the newest hourly that was posted 2 days ago on the drop box. I had global draw off, and just used canons built in meter to adjust exposure.

Really impressive stuff man, keep it up. I went from kinda wanting to shoot raw to not being able to shoot anything but raw. The quality is unreal, even at half of 1080 h264. Color depth is amazing. I plan on doing a more extensive test over tonight and tomorrow under different conditions, which I will post when available.

However, I did brick the camera once with this new update. I was recording raw and accidentally hit record again and the camera froze. Removed the battery and sd card and it started up again, but my modules wouldn't load. I formatted the card and re-uploaded the firmware and it seems to be working fine now.

Lesson learned, alway's have a back-up sd with standard ml.

kermitt

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #672 on: July 04, 2013, 09:56:54 AM »
Hi,

I use the last nightly build of this firmware and alway have the problem of pink squares on the video.
Anybody know how to remove them or A version of the firmware that removes them ?
Thanks very much

os6

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #673 on: July 04, 2013, 04:30:56 PM »
Hi kermitt,

the best way is to shoot at fix 24.000 fps. there for you need to activate the FPS override. in die submenu switch the mode "Optimize for" to "Exact FPS". you better switch off Global draw in the overlay tab. thats the setting i got best results. Maybe there are still Pink squares but not as much as before and most of the time only at beginning or end of the recording.

allswedish

  • New to the forum
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: 60D RAW video - it's working !!!
« Reply #674 on: July 04, 2013, 10:32:26 PM »
Here's my second test shot. I have a lot more I plan on cutting into a sequence but it's the 4th of July so I'm not working that much today on principal. I am mainly trying to test how the camera responds under different lighting conditions, motion, etc.

I've been experimenting with a couple settings, and find for my needs the 940 x 560 works really well, especially how you can change image size in processing. I'm averaging just over 1500 frames with global draw off.