Author Topic: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)  (Read 985649 times)

chmee

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #675 on: April 10, 2014, 12:31:33 AM »
@DFM good to hear.

btw. raw2cdng 1.5 is on the way, one or two days to finalize coding and then there will be a beta.

chmee

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #676 on: April 12, 2014, 01:08:39 AM »
ok. please see that really as a beta. testing, telling. all stuff you remark, problems, ideas and so on.

raw2cdng 1.5.0BETA

* PLEASE before the first start rename/delete the old settings-file in user/[user]/appdata/roaming ->raw2cdng.settings.json
* mlv and raw native (quite fast :))
* audio of course
* changed GUI to wpf (just saw a design-glitch on another pc)
* mouseover on preview ;) the preview is not accurate, its just a preview if the footage is the right one.
* the checkbuttons in the list are not implemented yet.
* options are disabled by now excepted pink highlights (but it doesnt work well by now :) i assume only in 16bit)
* there is a possibly empty field under the bitdepth-buttons. mouseover. you can refine your filename to your own needs..
* only for testing general purposes!
* this version is only linked here

http://dl.phreekz.de/raw2cdng/raw2cdng.1.5.0.beta.zip

regards chmee

ted ramasola

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #677 on: April 12, 2014, 01:32:34 AM »
how about the ev levels chmee? is it default like 1.4.9.6 ? or lowered like 1.4.9.7 ?
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chmee

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #678 on: April 12, 2014, 01:48:48 AM »
the ev levels just lowered if you're using pinkhighlight-fix, as i assume. by now i wait for the next adobe update - and i hope we dont need any pinkhighlight-fix :) last days i didnt really tested all circumstances.

reddeercity

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #679 on: April 12, 2014, 05:52:51 AM »
Had a lots of App Crashes, worked for about 10 file (loaded same file but change settings)
now it just crashes when I try to convert. Delete the old settings-file in user/[user]/appdata/roaming ->raw2cdng.settings.json
to get it to work after it crash, but now it just stop working, the preview work ok and the metadata was visible but no go.
Of what I did get to work I found Cdng 16bit maximized to work the best no pink, but very flat looking but editable.
12Bit maximized  worked also but with a gamma shift up and all high lights were pink and "delta pink high lights" didn't make any difference one way or another.
But it wasn't flat it had good contrast.
what's the differences between maximized and non and what doses "delta pink high lights" do ?
Note * it crashes on Raw & MLV. Deleted the .json file again and use 1.4.9 and back to normal for raw.
Windows 7 Ultimate , Toshiba i7 laptop 8GB Ram, SSD. the only error messages I could get are as follows:
"C:\Users\i7 Toshiba\AppData\Local\Temp\WERDA.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml
  C:\Users\i7 Toshiba\AppData\Local\Temp\WER3784.tmp.appcompat.txt
  C:\Users\i7 Toshiba\AppData\Local\Temp\WER3795.tmp.mdmp"


I do like the new look very nice job, the preview very fast. I though came to mind as I'm writing this, the preview stop working on the last 3 files
of MLV so I did not click to preview I just converted but then after a few more it stop working all together.
I also have dual video cards on my laptop (Intel HD400 & NvidiaGeforce GT 630M) Could this be a problem with debayering in preview ?
Good job! :)


chmee

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #680 on: April 12, 2014, 09:25:12 AM »
:o geez.. ok, i have to code the debuglog into the new version :) it seems, it has to do with the IO-read/write-routines. did you used some heavy subpath-things?

please try it one more time with one path from root and put into the filenamegenerator
Code: [Select]
[S]_ (for shortfilename). just to hear if it helps..

(btw. weeks ago i searched for some filename definitions from other filmcameras, i will optimize the filenamegenerator to this, but its quite possible to write the same filenames with raw2cdng)
http://pastebin.com/bE5jsBUY
Code: [Select]
Arri like filenaming
[CardNo][ClipNo]_[Date]_[Base36SerialNo]
A004C010_20100610_R1JL.mov

could be in raw2cdng
A001C001_[D]_[S]

regards and thanks a lot chmee

Midphase

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion
« Reply #681 on: April 12, 2014, 07:48:09 PM »
Unfortunately not. I'm still hoping Adobe solve this in the next version of PP since it's clearly their issue.

Wish you would have been at the CDNG NAB meeting on Wednesday. Some good info was being given. Frustratingly though, Adobe failed to send any of their people over. There are some good things potentially coming to the CDNG standard.

andy kh

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #682 on: April 14, 2014, 12:46:15 PM »
i had been busy shooting so couldnt test the new version and finally i hav tested today. it keeps on crashing and i am unable to use the application at all. however i wil love this new application once all the check buttons are implemented. this new version will save a lot of time. i have been using the old version v 1.4.9.3 because i have to convert to raw first and remove pink dots.
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chmee

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #683 on: April 14, 2014, 12:56:48 PM »
please give me some more informations.

* when does it crash? right in the beginning? after drag/drop? while showing preview? when starting to convert?
* maybe once again a path/naming problem?

@ted ramasola [pinkhighlight]
i just made my thoughts about the light-loss because of the highlight-workaround. finally it does not corrupt the SNR, because the values are only mathematically lowered (in 12/16bit). so if you brighten the frame, it should not have more SNR than before.. it "only" loses kind of highlight recovery ability, so it does not affect the simple premiere workflow, because there is no way to recover highlights..

andy kh

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #684 on: April 14, 2014, 01:27:06 PM »
i can drag and drop. after that i cant click anywhere as it would crash if i do so
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chmee

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #685 on: April 14, 2014, 01:49:13 PM »
@andy_kh
would you quote the path, your mlv/raw are saved? i'll do the test here now as well with a bigger directory-tree.

andy kh

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #686 on: April 14, 2014, 02:33:28 PM »
@chmme

i have tried different paths but it dint work and i cant even click the check box to preview. it keeps on crashing

i think (reddeercity) has mention the same problem above
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chmee

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #687 on: April 14, 2014, 02:53:48 PM »
if you dragdrop, its imported into the list and the values are right? resolution, frames/framerate?

but, nonethelesse, i will recode the debug-logging, to get faster informations.

andy kh

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #688 on: April 14, 2014, 04:23:27 PM »
if you dragdrop, its imported into the list and the values are right? resolution, frames/framerate?

but, nonethelesse, i will recode the debug-logging, to get faster informations.

yeah values are right
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tonybeccar

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #689 on: April 14, 2014, 06:43:29 PM »
Amazing changes!!!! Interface is a beauty!! As anotherone said here.. a lot of crashes with the app, that for me have to do with the interface. Most reproducable when adding multiple files.. after that when I scroll, or tick a box, or click a column, crash. The preview is out of this worldddd!!! It'll be just nuts to have the function like premiere, to scrub with the mouse when you move to the right, hehe. One last thing I think this program is missing that is vitally important, is multifolder support, subfolders I mean. When you are on a big shoot you always have your footage organized into folders. Oh and also, the naming convention, very nice! But is it possible to have the option to have the filename untouched? The shortened filename is weird and I never figured out what the last 'random' letter means!

Anyway, amazing stuff!!!
Cheers and thanks chmee!!!!!

chmee

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #690 on: April 14, 2014, 07:06:31 PM »
thanks.

* Yeah, wpf is a new world for me, i have to figure out, what event is doin the crash.
* i thought about scrubbing over the picture (left frame 0, right last frame), we'll see :)
* subfolders.. hmm. means, you'd change the subfolders per sequence. in this case, you put the mlv/raw files into according named subfolders and use the "source-path alias" inside the namegenerator.. it wont generate subfolders, but it will ease the sorting by name (maybe i find an intuitive way to implement it)
* realFilename comes to the alias list. thx.
* the shortened filename was born out of the fact, EDL-Names should be 8 chars long - and the mlv-name [a-z0-9] is just 7 - the eighth char is calculated from the first 7, means its not random, but not really useable :)

but to be honest. i wont code a commandline - if this ones will work, i'll start coding a premiere native importer-plugin - after some longer tests i have to admit, that the transcoding process is time consuming as well - and in the end not needed..

if someone's got crashes, please pastebin the saved crashreports (not the minidump of course :)) they will be in the temp-path with some strange name.xml. (see above, entry from reddeercity)

regards chmee

kaco

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #691 on: April 14, 2014, 10:23:32 PM »
@chmee: we have discussed the wav+dng import into resolve, so I know you are working on this. Have you tested this in Adobe AE? When I drop the CDNG folder into AE it imports just the video, not audio in my case. Maybe I'm doing smth wrong or it is not working? But it would save a lot of time if this will work.

chmee

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #692 on: April 14, 2014, 11:29:42 PM »
i promise i will look on that :)

chmee

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #693 on: April 15, 2014, 10:45:59 AM »
btw. i just made some small boring tests. recording, transcoding (16bit maximized, no pinkhighlight-fix) and straight using in premiere.

* the transcoding-process is (for me) much too long. as i stated theres only one solution. writing a mlv-importer for AE/premiere, since its the same SDK-Base
* importing the filesequences is a bit annoying, because you have to mark sequence by sequence. have to figure out, if premiere can cope with kind of containers, marking all pathes, thats it.. (would be solved with the importer :))
* but finally premiere works well with the data, i had no pink highlights, maybe i didnt overexposured :)

(vimeo) 1280*448 at 50fps - down to 23.976fps

(youtube) 1920*1080 at 23.976fps


kaco

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #694 on: April 15, 2014, 07:11:54 PM »
@chmee, it is very slow and complicated process (AE or resolve), but it will give you more production options. For me, the basic color grading tools in Premiere CC are not enough (I think they are more color correction than color grading). So even the process is slow and complicated, it is sometimes worth it.

I usually export with raw2cdng (or MLV converter if I need to fix vertical bandings). Then depending on the type of a project:

1. Create proxies in Resolve (faster then realtime). Import into Premiere. Make my edit, export XML to resolve, create final grade.

2. Create proxies in Resolve. Import into Premiere. Make my edit. Then duplicate the edit in the another layer. Nest every clip. Replace with AE composition (Adobe dynamic link) and import CDNG sequence. Then I make color grading on the first frame with Lightroom, save metadata and reload footage in AE. It will also update the clip in Premiere. Very slow, but higher quality debayer process then in Resolve.

3. Grade with Lightroom, import all into AE and directly export Prores/DNxHD -- all clips graded.

The second workflow is highest quality and with ability to render just the clips used in the final edit with ACR. But very annoying that I have to manually nest and relink every clip to AE.

Still though, I have problems with audio :D You should really look on that. If you have 1TB project with 250 shots, I spend day or two linking just the audio. :D

kaco

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #695 on: April 15, 2014, 07:15:06 PM »
Also, using Premiere CC to grade raw makes no sense to me when you can use Resolve which is for free. The process is not so much more complicated, isn't it?

andy kh

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #696 on: April 15, 2014, 07:19:26 PM »
@kako

i dont understand why dont you guys import cdng in cc and start your cut? you guys neednt sync audio manaully in premiere pro thats the reason why i love raw2cdng. after your cut you can grade in resolve or after effects without having any problem
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andy kh

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #697 on: April 15, 2014, 07:22:03 PM »
@kaco
with cdng editing raw is as easy as editing h264. i wil do a tutorial very soon to show you what i mean
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kaco

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #698 on: April 15, 2014, 07:35:12 PM »
@kako

i dont understand why dont you guys import cdng in cc and start your cut? you guys neednt sync audio manaully in premiere pro thats the reason why i love raw2cdng. after your cut you can grade in resolve or after effects without having any problem

It's because I am still on CS6. If there would be ACR involved into Premiere CC I would definetely upgrade. But just because of CDNG "proxies" and then also round tripping to Resolve it's not worth the money for me.

If the CDNG audio works with Premiere, I think it might somehow work in AE and Resolve too. If it works with Blackmagic CDNG files. I would say that the Premiere just checks the filenames while AE and Resolve also timecode or what -- that's why the audio and video imports as two separate files.

andy kh

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Re: The CinemaDNG Discussion (raw2cdng)
« Reply #699 on: April 15, 2014, 07:39:14 PM »
If the CDNG audio works with Premiere, I think it might somehow work in AE and Resolve too. If it works with Blackmagic CDNG files. I would say that the Premiere just checks the filenames while AE and Resolve also timecode or what -- that's why the audio and video imports as two separate files.

it doesnt work in resolve
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