12-bit (and 10-bit) RAW video development discussion

[keepersdungeon]

Hello, I was playing around with 10 bit and 12 bit (1st time testing them so I think I missed a lot)
Using version of july03. on a 6D.
There is something that I think I missunderstood, wanted to shoot in 10 bit so I could go higher with the resolution, but I couldn't  get higher than 1823*1029 on the 6D, instead I got 7 seconds of filming.
Usually on the 14bit (of the nightly build) I could film between 5-6 seconds. So I thought it wasn't a big deal.
tried the 14 bit of the experimental build i couldn't get to 4 seconds. any Idea why?
I tried to install the nightly build again , I was able to shoot 5-ish. why is there a difference between the two 14 bits?
note that I'm filming the same subject in all the tests.

And my other question is if I choose 10 bit is there a way to film with higher res and instead of more seconds?
Thanks

[ShootMeAlready]

Perhaps a sticky for this thread
- latest build links, some like 50D, 70D are not regularily updated
- latest mlv raw comverters for 14bit, 12 bit & 10bit

I think these two stickies type thread might speed things along, as these get asked often ...

[zcream]

@kyrobb Please update with your 50D experience.

Yes thank you tonji. Excited to test on my 50D. Did not have good luck with the 550D build, but I thought it was a common issue for Digic 4 cameras.

[kyrobb]

50D for me has the same issues in 10 and 12 bit as my 550D. Top third of frame turns pink and green every other frame while bottom two thirds constantly jumps back to frame 1. I've seen the same reported of the 5D2. Has anyone had confirmed success with the 7D? I understand these are all Digic 4 cameras, although the 7D is dual correct?

[Frank7D]

"Has anyone had confirmed success with the 7D?"
Yes, but only in zoom crop mode.

[Zeusjuice]

Hello,

Im new to magic lantern and have the 70D.  I downloaded and successfully installed the latest beta nightly build but that was before I saw this download page for experiments. I want to be able to do 10 bit raw recording. Am i suppose to uninstall the Beta nightly build and then install the experimental?  Or do I keep the original beta magic lantern files installed and add this experiment download to it?  Any help is greatly appreciated as I am a complete noob.

[a1ex]

Just posted new builds for 70D and 100D - do they finally work with 10/12-bit recording?

Also, the fio_malloc issue in mlv_play should be solved, although I didn't get the error here. Let me know if it still doesn't work.

[markkro88]

hey alex,

im getting that fio_malloc issue in mlv_play error on the 6d for 10bit and 12bit with the august 20th update for files over 1gb. can you please fix it so i can preview the recordings.  Also the shutter speed is showing 0" when its actually at 50. not sure why that is happening since it was working fine on the July update. thanks!

[a1ex]

Sorry, unable to reproduce either error on 5D3...

For the shutter speed issue, I don't even know where to look (screenshot, please).

[markkro88]

[a1ex]

Found - compiled the older sources by mistake (so the build was identical to Jul03). New builds posted.

That means the shutter speed issue depends on some of your settings that were changed since July. I'm unable to trigger this behavior on 5D3, even on auto modes. Did a few checks in QEMU, but could not find anything obviously wrong. What does the FPS indicator show? (top info bar, on the right side)

If you can compile ML, please print the values from fps-engio.c, get_current_shutter_reciprocal_x1000.

[andy kh]

Just posted new builds for 70D and 100D - do they finally work with 10/12-bit recording?

Also, the fio_malloc issue in mlv_play should be solved, although I didn't get the error here. Let me know if it still doesn't work.

everything works like a charm so far. no more playback issue. no more wrong black level issue. thank you so much for this build@Alex

[ilia3101]

I have a small request that I tried to do myself a ~a month ago but couldn't find where all the settings variables were to create a new one, and not certain where bitdepth is even set.

Basically here's the idea: For Digic IV cameras (ones where 10/12 bit doesnt work) - have a seperate bit depth selector in the menu for crop mode and full frame, as 10/12 bit seems to work in crop mode only for these cams. Maybe do it with something like #ifdef (5d2|50d|7d etc...)

Reason: if 10/12 bit setting is accidentaly left on after using crop mode, it can ruin some shots afterwards. (speaking from experience  )

[zcream]

What max res is available on 7D, 5d2 or 50d ? Irrespective of  frame corruption.
I think we can get 2.5K max in crop mode on these cameras. Is anyone able to go higher than 1080P ?

[nikfreak]

You are post #1339
reading #1314 should answer your question regarding 7D

[zcream]

@nikfreak Thanks.

The mapping from 14-bit to 10-bit is currently linear.

Here is the log mapping for SI-2K camera - output = Log base 90 (input*89+1).

> http://cineform.blogspot.in/2007/09/10-bit-log-vs-12-bit-linear.html

This is a pretty standard log profile that has LUTs for LOG to LIN conversion. Also does a better job with 10-bit RAW compared to linear.

@A1ex Any chance we can try get a log profile in here??

[OlRivrRat]

   Does this take some Specific Set of Settings to make It work ? On SL1 I get 2-3Sec's of Rec

& then it Quits ~

                     ORR ~ DeanB

[a1ex]

@A1ex Any chance we can try get a log profile in here??

If you can figure out how to change the linear mapping using Canon's image processing modules (since the CPU is way too slow for this), then yes. It's a matter of figuring out how to configure the image processing paths. You'll have to find out what to use for a LUT, gamma correction or any other nonlinear operation.

There is ongoing research on this (see e.g. EDMAC internals, raw_twk, lossless compression/decompression, EekoAddRawPath, ResLock, dm-spy-experiments). Feel free to investigate and share your notes (what you have tried, what was the result and so on).

Some low-hanging fruits to get started: FA_MaxSelectTestImage, FA_SubtractTestImage.

Canon's RAW to JPG processing paths and their creative effects from recent models are probably good choices to look at. Start by getting detailed logs on the dm-spy-experiments branch.

[Zeusjuice]

I'm currently using the new experiment 10 / 12 bit build on my 70D.  Here are my problems so far unsure if it is related to the build or just my workflow any help diagnosing is extremely appreciated and would receive hero status in my book for any help given.

There is a delay sometimes until actual recording registered in the footage.
I was able to get some footage later and everything was working really  really well.  I did 30 seconds of test footage but after converting mlv files to cdng using mlvmystic and dropping them into davinci resolve 12.5  - all the footage had unstable frame rates and would play back differently each time.  it would go from 2 frames per second to 24 with missing frames in between.  ( the raw footage i did see played back even though out of frame rate looked amazing though so I'm close)

I made sure to set the settings using a lower resolution and in an aspect ratio that showed green for continuous recording with room to spare and using a card with a high write speed that far exceeds my cameras ability.

Is this a local problem when i converted the MLV files using mystic? ( mystic i see is old and I had no luck with the converters i found on ML so far)
Is this a local problem for my computer ? my computer only has 4gb of ram which I know is like bare minimum but I'm using davinci resolve 12.5 which i thought would work with my set up in 10 bit
Is there a setting I'm unaware of in ML that would keep the frame rate stable?

Or is this build just not stable yet?

I'm very new to ML and resolve and the problems I am experiencing could be just a local issue I'm not catching with my inexperience.

Either way I'm really happy there are pro's working on this 10 bit raw recording I think that's so freaking cool and I'm very excited to see where this goes and thank you for working on these builds so we can get these great features out of our canon cameras.  ML is a big part of why I got a canon 70D.

Again Thanks in Advance for any help or suggestions offered by our members here.

Thanks,
Zeus

[nikfreak]

@Zeusjuice:

Probably mystic. Try one of the alternatives mentioned in the linked post:
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10466.msg187771#msg187771

[Zeusjuice]

@nikfreak:

Thank you so much, not just for your help today but for all that you do!! 

Thank You,
Zeus

[keepersdungeon]

I've downloaded the latest experiment version for the 6D (21august)

1-When u activate the FPSoverride the whole image becomes brighter and overexposed , and looks like shutter speed doesn't affect it the only thing that worked was going to f8 or f16, didn't have that prob with previous version (Jul03)
 **FPS settings: 24fps, fix, and the rest didn't touch it

2-I'm also getting this error every time I start recording on an empty SD card (error was in both versions jul03 and august21)
   "FAILED: "WBAL3: queued:7 failed: 1 (requeued)" and I only get it once it doesn't seem to affect the video though or WB, and have a feeling I only get it when there's nothing on the SD card and I hit Record

[Malik]

Canon 70D

10 Bit 

12Bit 

When recording there are no problems, the problem is that color noise is recorded.
The section chose FPS - no (raw-twk).

[kyrobb]

Probably been asked before, but is 8 bit raw a possibility? Would it offer any improvement in video quality over h.264? Just thinking about cams with slower write speeds.

[Danne]

Take a 14bit MLV file and output it as 8bit and have a look at the output. Use mlv_dump on steroids for this:

Code: [Select]

mlv_dump -b 8 --dng Input.MLV