12-bit (and 10-bit) RAW video development discussion

[rbrune]

@DeafEyeJedi -- in 48/50p the vertical resolution is 1.67x smaller, which kills details and causes aliasing and moire. Most of wide angle shots are quite bad.

Switching to canon 25/24p mode and then overriding to 37fps means much more detail for me. BIG chance for me, crippled resolution in 48p mode was a reason for me to start looking for a new camera.

You should check out the crop_rec module that is in development, it allows you to record in 48/50p without the vertical squeeze.

[kaco]

You should check out the crop_rec module that is in development, it allows you to record in 48/50p without the vertical squeeze.

@rbrune Thanks for the tip, I've already tested it. But AFAIK the preview in live view would be squeezed (1.64x) in vertical resolution? And because of the bitrate with full 1920x1080, without 10/12 bit I would not be able to get 48p continuos, not?

[aschille84]

@kaco I tried it yesterday, you can have 672 px max vertical resolution. So you can get something like 1600x672 in 50/60p unsqueezed footage. You have to change aspect ratio close to 1:1 to get max horizontal resolution

[kaco]

@kaco I tried it yesterday, you can have 672 px max vertical resolution. So you can get something like 1600x672 in 50/60p unsqueezed footage. You have to change aspect ratio close to 1:1 to get max vertical resolution

So 672px is limit for continuos shooting or is it a hard limit? If that's maximum (regardless bitrate), then this is not so great and a true 1920x1080 (or 1920x818) in 37fps is much more interesting.

[aschille84]

So 672px is limit for continuos shooting or is it a hard limit? If that's maximum (regardless bitrate), then this is not so great and a true 1920x1080 (or 1920x818) in 37fps is much more interesting.

Yes, its a hard limit regardless of bitrate. And I agree 37fps full HD is more useful and interesting.


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[ddelreal]

Is it the same problem as the 5DmkII ?

Yes, and I also get it on the 550D.

[dfort]

You should check out the crop_rec module that is in development, it allows you to record in 48/50p without the vertical squeeze.

@rbrune Thanks for the tip, I've already tested it. But AFAIK the preview in live view would be squeezed (1.64x) in vertical resolution? And because of the bitrate with full 1920x1080, without 10/12 bit I would not be able to get 48p continuos, not?

@rbrune -- Have you tried merging your crop_rec with raw_video_10bit_12bit? If you have a branch for that in your repository I can compile a new set of test builds. I'd do it myself but I'm not nearly the coder you are and am busy with some other projects at the moment.

[rbrune]

@rbrune -- Have you tried merging your crop_rec with raw_video_10bit_12bit? If you have a branch for that in your repository I can compile a new set of test builds. I'd do it myself but I'm not nearly the coder you are and am busy with some other projects at the moment.

I had not but gave it a quick try. Recording in 10bit with 3x3 mode worked for me on the EOSM (of course without live preview, that still needs fixing on the EOSM).
Here you go:
https://bitbucket.org/rbrune/magic-lantern/branch/crop_rec_raw_video_10bit_12bit

[DeafEyeJedi]

... I can compile a new set of test builds. I'd do it myself but I'm not nearly the coder you are and am busy with some other projects at the moment.

I replied in your thread about a possibility to give you a helping hand with this task. Thanks @rbrune for sharing your branch!

[dfort]

Nice!

Ok--what's next, taking a1ex's hint and adding more of rbrune's wonderful work like added fine control on top of x-resolution presets and display of effective crop factor for MLV Lite? I was about to look into that this morning but got stuck in focus pixel land with the EOSM crop_rec video mode.

[rbrune]

I had not but gave it a quick try. Recording in 10bit with 3x3 mode worked for me on the EOSM.

After playing with it some more I noticed that my EOSM crashes (screen freezes and I can hear the lens/AF working but no reaction to button presses) when I try to record a second 10bit mlv after a first one (with/without crop_mode).
Can someone confirm this? (just record a 10bit mlv stop, wait a couple second and immediately record a second one).

[dfort]

After playing with it some more I noticed that my EOSM crashes (screen freezes and I can hear the lens/AF working but no reaction to button presses) when I try to record a second 10bit mlv after a first one (with/without crop_mode).
Can someone confirm this? (just record a 10bit mlv stop, wait a couple second and immediately record a second one).

My EOSM is crashing on the first 10bit mlv. I reported it a few days ago.

It works fine in the crop modes, mv1080crop and zoom with the same LiveView freeze and first frame corrupt issue as the 700D. There's something strange going on with the non-cropped modes. The camera records but the camera freezes when recording is stopped requiring a battery pull.

I just tried it with your crop_rec in 10bit and same thing. Works fine in Movie crop mode (600D movie crop-mode) and zoom mode. Well, if you accept LiveView freezing as "works fine."

[dfort]

@a1ex

For fine resolution increments, you just have to port this change to MLV Lite.

The change should be simple enough for anyone with minimal C skills (perfect for new contributors looking for something easy to get started).

Got it working. Since the request was made on this topic I made the pull request for the raw_video_10bit_12bit branch:

https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/pull-requests/767/raw_rec-mlv-lite-now-handles-resolution/diff

[kgv5]

@dfort, are you able to compile a module for 5d3 113 with fine resolution changes?

[DeafEyeJedi]

@kgv5 -- here's what I was able to compile today for a few of my DSLR's so far (be aware that Dual-ISO isn't included as it is still temporiarly broken) on my environment until then. all cameras and they are currently available for download (check below).

5D3.113, 7D.203 & EOSM.202 for now -- https://mega.nz/#F!PgFFQKxY!KR7Odshgs-HmL5o1EM5Z-g

New link here -- https://bitbucket.org/DeafEyeJedi/magic-lantern/downloads

Thanks to @rbune for sharing your branch and to @dfort for the PR in getting crop_rec.mo & 10/12-bit merged together.

@Everyone else -- I'll eventually compile for the rest once I've finally resolved with the Dual-ISO module issue on this Mac.

*edit*

This has finally been fixed on my Mac. Got it compiled for all cameras running ML except for 1100D.105 & 5D3.123 (will eventually figure out how to get this merged for 5D3.123) and special Thanks goes out to @dfort for getting me back on track with the compiling environment. 

[Lars Steenhoff]

Thanks for the build, will test it now on the 5dmk3

Main thing I'm looking forward to is to see next is in camera playback, its nice to verify the shots are on the card.

[DeafEyeJedi]

Based on my recent tests with the mlv_playback.mo from these builds on 5D3.113 & 7D.203 which seems to playback files like normal.

Even if they (10/12-bit files) are corrupted. Nice! 



However with the EOSM.202 -- if I try to playback an MLV file recorded with either 10 or 12 bit it would load (the blue 'loading' graphic line) up to the very moment when we would expect to see the footage to no avail.



It still stays on the end of the 'Blue loading graphic' within the GUI -- is this what you are (or were) seeing as well @Lars Steenhoff?

[dfort]

@dfort, are you able to compile a module for 5d3 113 with fine resolution changes?

Sure, here you go.

https://bitbucket.org/daniel_fort/magic-lantern/downloads/magiclantern-raw_video_10bit_12bit_fine_x_resolution.2016Nov09.5D3113.zip

I haven't tested it on that camera yet but now raw_rec should fine adjust just like it does in mlv_rec.

[baccinoluigi]

Tested on 5d mark III 113
every things works ok
no frame corrupted

Crop Mode

3200x1200 23fps 10 bit Continous  (105.7 mbps)

3.5k Video Continous it's Amazing

Thank you very much  dfort

[kgv5]

Thank you very much guys  This is incredible.

My measurments:

Everything tested with 24fps 10bit on 5d3 113, CF sandisk extreme pro 128gb 160mb/s

3168x1320 2.40:1 (1.81x crop) - 14 sec

3104x1320 2.35:1 (1.85x crop) - 18 sec
3104x1298 2.39:1 (1.85x crop) - 21 sec

3008x1280 2.35:1 (1.91x crop) - 38 sec
3008x1258 2.39:1 (1.91x crop) - 56 sec

2976x1266 2.35:1 (1.93x crop) - 60 sec
2976x1246 2.39:1 (1.93x crop) - 123 sec

2880x1226 2.35:1 (2x crop) - continous

And wider aspect ratios - just for fun:

3520x1320 2.67:1 (1,63x crop) - 6 sec
3296x1320 2.50:1 (1.74x crop) - 12 sec

Now I would like to see the comparison: 5d3 vs 5d4 - raw 10bit 3008x1258 (quite usable recording time - 56 sec) vs MJPEG 8bit 4k. Not so much different crops - 1.91x 5d3 vs 1.7x 5d4. Similar bitrates. That would be very interesting.

[a1ex]

However with the EOSM.202 -- if I try to playback an MLV file recorded with either 10 or 12 bit it would load (the blue 'loading' graphic line) up to the very moment when we would expect to see the footage to no avail.

Can you upload a small MLV that shows the issue?

I assume the same MLV (recorded on EOS M) will fail to play in a different camera as well; can you check whether this is true?

[DeafEyeJedi]

Can you upload a small MLV that shows the issue?

I assume the same MLV (recorded on EOS M) will fail to play in a different camera as well; can you check whether this is true?

Sure here you go -- it's the same exact file (269.1 MB) from the screenshot above (M09-1246.MLV) and I can confirm that playing this particular file on a 7D which DOES playback fine until at the end which then I am prompted with this message...



My gut feeling is telling me this may has to do with EOSM freezing while being recorded (even tho the file is still be written into card) and the only way to get the LiveView back on is to take the battery out after each take. Not sure if this would be helpful?

[a1ex]

The last few frames appear to have some trouble. Recording was stopped normally, or it crashed?

edit: looks like it crashed.

[rbrune]

I think we need to get the ML black and white preview working on the EOSM - the incorrectly setup LV for 10/12bit is probably messing with the camera and making it crash.

[a1ex]

With preview set to Canon, do you still get crashes?