Author Topic: 50D Raw video  (Read 680152 times)

lionelp

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4200 on: December 16, 2013, 07:33:46 PM »
************************************
***New Build of Tragic Lantern uploaded***
************************************

Thanks Andy, 1%, Alex and everyone!
Canon 60D, 50D | Lenses: Nikkor : 18-55 , 3.5 | 50, 1.8 | 24, 2.8 | 28,2.8 | 35, 2.8 |Helios 58 | A few other Nikon manual zooms and prime lenses|
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LEVISDAVIS

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4201 on: December 16, 2013, 10:01:26 PM »
Got a reply from Mosaic Engineering here at 1:40 PM on 12-16-2013…

"We're writing to you today because you had previously emailed to us inquiring about a Video Aliasing Filter for the Canon 50D.  By the way, we apologize for our delay in responding if we've not replied to you previously.

Nevertheless, we'd like to let you know that we do now have the VAF-50D available, for use with Magic Lantern RAW video recording!

The VAF-50D is available now, in our online store: http://store.mosaicengineering.com
 
A brief with-and-without demo video of this filter - Not a valid vimeo URL - has been produced by Mr. Levi Davis.  We expect to have additional video example material available before long, and will post that as soon as possible also.

Our product page for this new filter is here - http://mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf/50d.html; we'll be adding more information and details shortly.

Sorry again for our delay in responding; anyway we hope this information can help you at this time!

Thank you again for your interest in our filters,"

Looks like 50D shooters are about ready to hit the professional market!!! Been having a lot of success with the prototype filter myself. The filter does a great job of resolving details and eliminating moire. The camera before the VAF displays serious issues with moire. These issues appear in every image in some way shape or form. There is moire on straight lines & fine detail. There is more on skin tones in areas of fine detail. With the VAF filter I'm shooing an image that holds about the same detail as a BMPCC. Albeit there are low-level moire issues with the prototype 50D VAF but the levels are nearly identical to the BMPCC. Technically this quite the accomplishment given the BMPCC shoots pixel for pixel and the 50D is line skipping a 5K sensor...
 
Picked up the BMPCC about two weeks back after watching a side-by-side dynamic range test with the BMPCC and the 50D. Dynamic range will play a large roll in future sensor development for sure. The 50D resolves about 10.5 to 11 stops in comparison to the 13 stops of the BMCC. However, the 50D appears to resolve a stronger color pallet. Quite simply, the 50D shoots a wonderful image for a colorist. In my opinion, I've got a long way to go before the BMPCC hits my liking… It's as though one unit is happy and beautiful and the other unit is bland and extremely true… Hmm??? Perhaps the 50D appears to hold a more of a mass-market "look & feel?" Maybe in 5 years I'll say the complete opposite?
 
If the 50D and the BMPCC cameras are going to be compared for their resolution and similar moire issues, then the shooter should be made aware of the sensor's capabilities and limitations…
 
The noise floor is definitely more apparent with the 50D. The image slightly suffers from what appears to be sensor refreshing / banding, even at lower ISO values and exposing to the right. Adobe Camera Raw typically requires the chroma channels and luma channels to have low-level noise reduction. DaVinci Resolve 10 might actually produce a better noise floor, however, ACR typically produces a much stronger result. Essentially, though, we are talking about a sensor that has so much life in the image! The skin tones in particular are very prominent! The strength of the colors wants to reach out and touch the audience. In particular, the sensor has the great latitude so long as the image is inhibited by moire.
 
The grain and noise floor of the BMPCC are much more video/filmic. Additionally, there is no allaying issues with the sensor. However, at this point in my venture with the camera, the sensor readout lacks the character that the 50D lends so wonderfully. Having applied 6 months of raw color-correction techniques to the BMPCC, I've found the camera captures nearly exactly what that eye sees. It's almost as though a perfect copy of the real world has transferred into the raw digital realm. Therefore, if you want character with the BMPCC, BMPCC shooters need to push "character" into the image in the production.
 
With cameras like a "50D + Mosaic Engineering VAF + Magic Lantern" and the "BMPCC + raw" a shooter is able step aside from technical faults and truly produce an image made for high-quality television productions & independent film productions. Let's face it, this level of confidence is absolutely necessary. After all, the purpose of the shooter is to push the sensor to the limits, right? Quite simply, the 50D's limitations come up a bit too quick without the aid of the VAF.
 
… Continuing with the 50D VAF filter testing… The 3x zoom is soft with the filter in place, but I still shoot 3x with the filter in place…Not that it's a "completely unique look…" It's a usable look without too much degradation.
 
After about three months of testing the prototype filter, I think it is a very positive/powerful addition to the camera. This statement holds especially true considering BMPC's ability to resolve detail on a sensor shooting "pixel for pixel." Effectively, the 50D is right there with the BMPCC's image detail at 1600x900 when the BMPCC is shooting native 1920x1080.
 
Feel free to download the CDNG samples of the 50D with the prototype VAF on Copy. There are full-sesor read-out images as well as 3x image readouts. The images were taken with a near mint 35mm Nikon Nikkor F2.8 AI. The lens has a 52mm ProMaster UV in place. Please follow this link to download native CDNG images copy.com/8PP4i3MBODoTiovb.
 
The images are of an author named James Hinkley: Jimhinkleystudio.zenfolio.com & route66chronicles.blogspot.com. James has authored a number of books about Historic Route 66 in addition to other solid works of history! Interestingly, I talked to him about the production of the book and he had used the 50D for many of the shots along Route 66. He was very impressed to see the power behind ML! "What comes around goes around, right?"
 
Special thanks to the ML team and Mosaic Engineering! Feels great to have such a powerful workflow. Enjoy!
Levi S. Davis

menoc

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4202 on: December 16, 2013, 10:30:04 PM »
Got a reply from Mosaic Engineering here at 1:40 PM on 12-16-2013…

"We're writing to you today because you had previously emailed to us inquiring about a Video Aliasing Filter for the Canon 50D.  By the way, we apologize for our delay in responding if we've not replied to you previously.

Nevertheless, we'd like to let you know that we do now have the VAF-50D available, for use with Magic Lantern RAW video recording!

The VAF-50D is available now, in our online store: http://store.mosaicengineering.com
 
A brief with-and-without demo video of this filter -
- has been produced by Mr. Levi Davis.  We expect to have additional video example material available before long, and will post that as soon as possible also.

Our product page for this new filter is here - http://mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf/50d.html; we'll be adding more information and details shortly.

Sorry again for our delay in responding; anyway we hope this information can help you at this time!

Thank you again for your interest in our filters,"

Looks like we are about ready!!! Been having a lot of success with the prototype filter myself. I'm positive there is about the same if not less moire than the BM Pocket Cinema Camera… Picked up one about two weeks back after a post demonstrating the incredible dynamic range…! Seriously though, the 50D has an incredible sensor for resolving color detail. The images from raw video, specifically using the Mosaic VAF are completely usable for television productions & independent film productions… Yes, the 3x zoom is soft with the filter in place, but I still shoot 3x with the filter in place…Not that it's a unique look… It's a usable look that isn't degraded by much… Still, after about three months of testing, I think it is a very powerful addition to the camera, especially if you consider the market's inability to resolve detail. Effectively, the 50D is right there with the pocket and the pocket is shooting native full HD.

Awsomew news Levi!!

menoc

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4203 on: December 16, 2013, 10:32:22 PM »
Andy, thak you so much for the update to tragic lanter. And thank you to all the ML dev team. Great, Great
Work!

PhilK

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4204 on: December 17, 2013, 06:36:48 AM »
Great news about the VAF-50D Levi. 

Do you know if there are any differenced between the prototype unit you've been testing and the production units?

LEVISDAVIS

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4205 on: December 17, 2013, 08:54:58 AM »
I was told they were going to improve upon the prototype over 3 months ago… I also know that they have a Canon 50D to test with… However, I haven't heard anything from Mosaic specifically about improvements or advancements…

I like your question… That was one of my first thoughts regarding Mosaic's email today too.
Levi S. Davis

tecgen

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4206 on: December 17, 2013, 08:54:52 PM »
Is this a bug?

When I boot up my 50d and enter Magic Lantern I am able to use the scroll wheel to jump from one menu item to another. BUT, when I start the Live View and try again to use the scroll wheel it simply does not work anymore. Now it changes the exposure e.g from f2.8 to something else. I tried the last 3 releases from Andy600. They all behave the same. I find it very annoying since I am used to use the scroll wheel and now accidental change the exposure. 

I searched this thread and found that joaomoutinho noticed this behavior before.
...
dont know why, but it runs like this as soon as I've installed this last version. Hum, and another thing that happened, the scrolling weel in the back of the camera stoped working. Now I have to do everything with the "joystick".  :-\
Something went wrong...
...

I didn't have a look at the source code, but it seams to me that somewhere a method call to register the scroll wheel when displaying the menu and not the Live View is missing.

@1%
I hope with help of my description you can easily locate where to fix the bug in the code when you find time. I assume you know the code in and out and already know in which class you need to add just a line of code. ;) I'm still trying to understand how Magic Lantern works by reading the code of your branch.

Thank you very much for all the time you spend to add new functions, improve the code and tweak it for maximum performance.

Best regards,
Marco
Canon 5D Mark II, 50D, 550D/Rebel T2i, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8, EF 85 f1.8, EF 135 f2.8 SF, Zoom H2n

Andy600

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4207 on: December 17, 2013, 08:56:58 PM »
Is this a bug?

When I boot up my 50d and enter Magic Lantern I am able to use the scroll wheel to jump from one menu item to another. BUT, when I start the Live View and try again to use the scroll wheel it simply does not work anymore. Now it changes the exposure e.g from f2.8 to something else. I tried the last 3 releases from Andy600. They all behave the same. I find it very annoying since I am used to use the scroll wheel and now accidental change the exposure. 

I searched this thread and found that joaomoutinho noticed this behavior before.
I didn't have a look at the source code, but it seams to me that somewhere a method call to register the scroll wheel when displaying the menu and not the Live View is missing.

@1%
I hope with help of my description you can easily locate where to fix the bug in the code when you find time. I assume you know the code in and out and already know in which class you need to add just a line of code. ;) I'm still trying to understand how Magic Lantern works by reading the code of your branch.

Thank you very much for all the time you spend to add new functions, improve the code and tweak it for maximum performance.

Best regards,
Marco

You immediately assume it's a bug  ???. Delete your config files and try again. I don't have this problem. Anyone else?
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

tecgen

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4208 on: December 17, 2013, 10:14:19 PM »
You immediately assume it's a bug  ???. Delete your config files and try again. I don't have this problem. Anyone else?

I installed the latest stable ML 2.3 on a fresh card. I could reproduce the same behavior, but only when I set LV Display: Movie. In case of LV Display: Photo, ExpSim the scroll wheel even works after activating the Live View. So I assume now that its not a bug in ML ;) .

Its interesting, when I set with ML 2.3 LV Display: Photo, ExpSim, shut down the camera and switch to another card with the latest build from December 15, the scroll wheel works as expected when I start Live View. But, when I set LV Display: Movie with ML 2.3, shut down the camera again and switch to the latest Dec.15 version, I can reproduce the behavior explained before where the scroll wheel stops working after activation of the Live View. I didn't find the switch LV Display in the latest version, where I can set the values I am able to change with ML 2.3. Is it not available anymore or am I blind?  :o
Canon 5D Mark II, 50D, 550D/Rebel T2i, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8, EF 85 f1.8, EF 135 f2.8 SF, Zoom H2n

a1ex

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4209 on: December 17, 2013, 10:27:28 PM »
For expsim: define CONFIG_EXPSIM_MOVIE in internals.h (should be like 5D2).

For scrollwheel: you may want to find another GUIMODE_ML_MENU (trial and error). 500D has the same problem.

tecgen

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4210 on: December 17, 2013, 10:34:52 PM »
When setting LV Display: Photo, no ExpSim in ML 2.3 and starting afterwards the Dec. 15 version, the scroll wheel works as expected after switching on Live View. I can live with this because now the scroll wheel works always and the Live View image changes the ISO value automatically when I set it to AUTO, which I prefer.

@a1ex
Thank you for your hint. I'll have a look into the header file for the constant.

best regards,
Marco
Canon 5D Mark II, 50D, 550D/Rebel T2i, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8, EF 85 f1.8, EF 135 f2.8 SF, Zoom H2n

pags

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4211 on: December 18, 2013, 02:56:47 AM »
************************************
***New Build of Tragic Lantern uploaded***
************************************


Are there any improvements to the dead pixel problem?
Haven't had a chance to try the new build, Thanks for all the work done to make my 50D the monster it is!

bzhwindtalker

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4212 on: December 18, 2013, 02:55:38 PM »
Hey guys, I did a comparaison between the 50D and a panasonic G6 and it hits hard... only the crop mode can hold a chance!
Skip to 3.15 for the comparaison footage, but there are test shots in the firts half too.
Same lenses, same tripod, same position ext (Samyang 14mm t3.1 and centon 50mm f1.7)
For my use the G6 is a much better camera...
50D, Komputarbay 1000x 32gb, Tokina at-x 24-40, Centon 50f1.7, 55-250 IS II, zoom H1

lionelp

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4213 on: December 19, 2013, 06:44:35 AM »
 :)
Hey guys, I did a comparaison between the 50D and a panasonic G6 and it hits hard...






For my use the G6 is a much better camera...

I like the G6 and the G3. I think you said it all when you said for your use. It is sort of an apples and oranges thing. Not really looking to debate the merits on this forum. Glad that you found something that you like.  :)
Canon 60D, 50D | Lenses: Nikkor : 18-55 , 3.5 | 50, 1.8 | 24, 2.8 | 28,2.8 | 35, 2.8 |Helios 58 | A few other Nikon manual zooms and prime lenses|
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djfremen

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4214 on: December 19, 2013, 07:31:53 AM »

Hey guys, I did a comparaison between the 50D and a panasonic G6 and it hits hard... only the crop mode can hold a chance!
Skip to 3.15 for the comparaison footage, but there are test shots in the firts half too.

Thanks Adam- wish I could have known which lens was on which camera.

The focal length according to my math is about 55mm with that samyang in crop mode. How does it look? Any fringe near the edges?

Thanks.

rommex

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4215 on: December 19, 2013, 11:54:29 AM »
Hey guys, I did a comparaison between the 50D and a panasonic G6 and it hits hard...
For my use the G6 is a much better camera...

Very nice slider shots. But you should work more on the sound design -- couldn't hear well what you say there.

bzhwindtalker

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4216 on: December 19, 2013, 01:45:48 PM »
Thanks for the comments guys, it was my first time at using my audio gear and English is not my native language (not hard to guess lol). The samyang 14 is a nice lens but it's not fast at t3.1 if you want to use it as your main lens in crop mode. Also, you have deep Dof so the image won't look very cinematic. I had my 50d for 400€ (+2x70€ for fast cf cards) and the g6 costed me 470€ new with the kit lens.
50D, Komputarbay 1000x 32gb, Tokina at-x 24-40, Centon 50f1.7, 55-250 IS II, zoom H1

lionelp

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4217 on: December 19, 2013, 04:20:14 PM »
Thanks for the comments guys, it was my first time at using my audio gear and English is not m


y native language (not hard to guess lol). The samyang 14 is a nice lens but it's not fast at t3.1 if you want to use it as your main lens in crop mode. Also, you have deep Dof so the image won't look very cinematic. I had my 50d for 400€ (+2x70€ for fast cf cards) and the g6 costed me 470€ new with the kit lens.
[Quote/]

What are you using to capture images on the G6?
Canon 60D, 50D | Lenses: Nikkor : 18-55 , 3.5 | 50, 1.8 | 24, 2.8 | 28,2.8 | 35, 2.8 |Helios 58 | A few other Nikon manual zooms and prime lenses|
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lionelp

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4218 on: December 19, 2013, 04:25:40 PM »
Quote from: lionelp link=topic=5586.msg92239#msg92239
I had my 50d for 400€ (+2x70€ for fast cf cards) and the g6 costed me
[Quote/


What media / cards are you using to capture images on the G6?
Canon 60D, 50D | Lenses: Nikkor : 18-55 , 3.5 | 50, 1.8 | 24, 2.8 | 28,2.8 | 35, 2.8 |Helios 58 | A few other Nikon manual zooms and prime lenses|
Komputerbay 1000x, Sandisk 95 MB/ s

bzhwindtalker

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4219 on: December 19, 2013, 04:47:05 PM »
H264 on a class 4 sdhc card, 28mb/sec.
50D, Komputarbay 1000x 32gb, Tokina at-x 24-40, Centon 50f1.7, 55-250 IS II, zoom H1

dogmydog

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4220 on: December 20, 2013, 06:06:39 AM »
I was told they were going to improve upon the prototype over 3 months ago… I also know that they have a Canon 50D to test with… However, I haven't heard anything from Mosaic specifically about improvements or advancements…

I like your question… That was one of my first thoughts regarding Mosaic's email today too.

Great Work, Levi's!
Anyone actually bought the VAF? I'm seriously thinking of getting one in January.
I think it's worth the investment over the BMPCC, since I already bought the three 1000x CFs, own several EF-S lenses and Canon 50D body. Also I need full sensor because I shoot at 16mm-20mm focal distance.
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lomka

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4221 on: December 20, 2013, 08:58:08 PM »
Can someone please tell me how to install magic lantern om my canon 50d just got it.

Andy600

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4222 on: December 20, 2013, 09:02:13 PM »
Can someone please tell me how to install magic lantern om my canon 50d just got it.

Welcome aboard :)

Read this http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5520.0, install v2.3, get used to how it works and only then think about raw etc.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

CITY-U1001

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4223 on: December 21, 2013, 09:22:48 AM »
Who tested 'experimental' feature of selectable single or double buffering ? :o
50D | EFS 18-55 | last build crop_rec-3744x1080_24fps_50D-eXperimental.4.57pm.2020May06.50D109.zip

lomka

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #4224 on: December 22, 2013, 12:15:21 AM »
Unfortunately i don't have a card reader, is there a way to install magic lantern without card reader?