Author Topic: 50D Raw video  (Read 652621 times)

SleeperNinja

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3775 on: October 20, 2013, 10:01:42 PM »
Was discussed earlier in this thread somewhere.  Quite a few looked into it, but the 50D is missing the hardware on board to produce a similar beep that newer cameras give off.
any beep would be better than no beep, though, I'd say.

joaomoutinho

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3776 on: October 21, 2013, 05:31:43 AM »
I always shoot with RAW picture turned on in the menu and I've never had a dropped frame. Your card is probably a dodgy one, the komputerbay's seem to be a bit hit and miss.

Really? This was told to me by a ML developer. So what are you saying is that is possible to shoot RAW video with the RAW picture mode ON? Everyone told me that for the RAW video to work continually, it would be necessary to turn the "RAW" mode OFF in CANON menu and get "JPEG" ON.

So, Im not getting the best quallity? Is that it?

SleeperNinja

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3777 on: October 21, 2013, 05:49:56 AM »
Really? This was told to me by a ML developer. So what are you saying is that is possible to shoot RAW video with the RAW picture mode ON? Everyone told me that for the RAW video to work continually, it would be necessary to turn the "RAW" mode OFF in CANON menu and get "JPEG" ON.

So, Im not getting the best quallity? Is that it?
My guess is that it won't affect the image's quality, but it may affect the memory usage, limiting resources.

As for the statement, I tend to agree. I've been leaving the camera in RAW shooting mode, and I have yet to have a magenta frame on my 50D, whereas slow cards caused me plenty of bad frames on my 550D.

I would like to note that I leave GD and h.264 video mode off, which may relieve some resource strain.

rockfallfilms

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3778 on: October 21, 2013, 02:04:53 PM »
Really? This was told to me by a ML developer. So what are you saying is that is possible to shoot RAW video with the RAW picture mode ON? Everyone told me that for the RAW video to work continually, it would be necessary to turn the "RAW" mode OFF in CANON menu and get "JPEG" ON.

So, Im not getting the best quallity? Is that it?

I would guess that your card is causing the slowdown. Which version of ML are you shooting with?

I always use Tragic Lantern and can shoot with Raw photo mode turned on, also global draw on, zebra, histogram & peaking and still get around 8% idle with an empty card. Once the card gets about half full I have to turn off zebra in order to maintain continuous.

I've not experienced any issues shooting this way on a 1000x 64GB Komputerbay.

What frame rate are you shooting at? I shoot at 25fps.

paulforte

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3779 on: October 21, 2013, 11:48:31 PM »
A short film I made shot with the Canon 50D RAW Hack. Thanks so much to the people on here for making RAW on the 50D a reality.


dsManning

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3780 on: October 22, 2013, 01:23:37 AM »
A short film I made shot with the Canon 50D RAW Hack. Thanks so much to the people on here for making RAW on the 50D a reality.


Nice editing.  Vignette from the anamorphic, or in post?

paulforte

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3781 on: October 22, 2013, 01:48:54 AM »
The vignette is from the anamorphic for sure, but when I darkened the image in post it made it a little more present.

dsManning

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3782 on: October 22, 2013, 04:18:55 AM »
The vignette is from the anamorphic for sure, but when I darkened the image in post it made it a little more present.

Do you use Resolve?  Could probably tone down the vignette with a softened outside node.  Glad it wasn't a post choice, a bit strong in a few shots.  Loved the mix of photo/video and the way it was edited.  I don't have an anamorphic lens, but I would love to know, how does it behave when you go into crop sensor mode?

paulforte

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3783 on: October 22, 2013, 04:58:11 AM »
I could have fixed it but I just left it, wasn't that bothered. Totally agree about some of the shots being too heavy. The shots of the computer were a different lens which vignetted heavily. The lens is a Bolex Anamorphot 8/19.1.5 which only works on smaller sensors at a maximum of 40mm and full frame about 85mm, so the 1.6 crop is great. In fact, I've been using it with my Blackmagic Pocket and it's even sharper because of the 3X crop, it uses the center part of the lens not the outside, here's an example -

lomka

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3784 on: October 22, 2013, 03:50:34 PM »
Hi,
can a 50D shoot 23.976/24 fps RAW without fps override?

Andy600

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3785 on: October 22, 2013, 04:09:59 PM »
Hi,
can a 50D shoot 23.976/24 fps RAW without fps override?

no
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

lomka

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3786 on: October 22, 2013, 10:41:52 PM »
are there any disadvantages in that? i mean does it skip frames in 30p to get 24 or is it true 24p?

a1ex

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3787 on: October 22, 2013, 10:49:13 PM »
If it would skip frames, it would be called frame skipping, no?

menoc

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3788 on: October 22, 2013, 11:26:53 PM »
are there any disadvantages in that? i mean does it skip frames in 30p to get 24 or is it true 24p?

It is recording 24 frames in 1 second. Every second of every minute.

It is not skipping frames in 1 second then skipping frames again 4 seconds later. Capish?

LEVISDAVIS

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3789 on: October 23, 2013, 09:33:27 AM »
Komputerbay 128GB 1050x records continuous raw at...

23.976

- - 1584x1058 (almost 3:2) - - Shows no bars in the metering... Global Draw is off. (Raw photo mode is ON.)

25 P

- - 1584x1058 (almost 3:2) - - Shows no bars in the metering... Global Draw is off. (Raw photo mode is ON.)

29.970

- - 1584x1058 (almost 3:2) - - 864 frames ((Raw photo mode is OFF.)

5X Center Crop

23.976

1920 x 1080 - 1715 frames (results varied a lot) (Hacked - No Preview proved best results).

1920 x 1038 - Continuous (results varied).

Things to consider is that if you are going to push the card to the limit it want to record a short take and then skip frames. After that first short take it will record something fierce and of course continuously. This is different than the Komputerbay 64 GB card. That card seems to just get up and go and if it gets into a recording bind somehow finds a way to lower buffers. ;D

... Saw a serious increase in the 50D's ability to capture frames by disabling raw in the photo mode. However, I too typically shoot with raw enabled because 1584 x 892 at a standard frame rate is not a stretch for the Komputerbay cards. Have never gotten pink frames either.


If you haven't been following... I purchased a 128 GB 1000x card from Komputerbay about a week ago. Unfortunately, the card would not work with ML on the 50D. I contacted Komputerbay support and they had me send in the card for a firmware adjustment. At that point, I asked to upgrade to the 1050x because they stated that the 1050x would also work with the 50D after they made a firmware adjustment. Well, I got the card back from their tech support today and was absolutely able to load the firmware with success. Yes it's a 128 GB 1050x card and yet it will work with ML! Reads as a 119GB card, but it should be able to capture 128 GB without any trouble. If you notice the 64 GB 1000x cards read as a 60 GB card in the Canon 50D and it still captures a full 64 GB worth of data.

If you are interested in the card, you might want to talk to Komputerbay before purchasing the card from Amazon or ebay. They may have some of the firmware adjusted cards in stock. I don't know for sure, but I would think that they would have at least a few. Who knows?
Levi S. Davis

Wlad81

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3790 on: October 23, 2013, 05:58:43 PM »
Hello, I'm a newbie here, from Russia. 

That's the great thing that you, ML, do. One can get a cinematographic camera for a fraction of a cost, not needing to get an expensive Kodak film for $100/can, to develop and scan/telecine it. All you need to start shooting in almost cinema quality is to install the ML firmware, get the quickest SD or CF card you can, and here is it. Our Russian film cameramen don't agree with me, though.

I've got a few questions and thoughts on shooting raw, the main of those is this one:

If you can get a 50D with ML, two 64 GB 1000x CF cards, a card-reader, and an external HDD connected to the notebook, then you can shoot in raw for how long you want to, for the 2 hours or so. A concert, for instance. All you have to do is to swap CF cards, copying raw files from one card to the external HDD as the second card is working in the camera. Am I right? Will the 50D overheat in a few minutes of almost continuos work?
Canon EOS 5D Mk III + Canon 24-105 F/4 L IS USM + SanDisk Exreme Pro 64 GB (SD, ML Nightly.2021Feb07.5D3113) + SanDisk Extreme Pro 128 GB (CF).

1%

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3791 on: October 23, 2013, 06:10:46 PM »
Jpeg = 219MB
Raw  = 195MB

So yea, jpeg quality gives you another buffer at the least.

menoc

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3792 on: October 23, 2013, 09:51:03 PM »
Hello, I'm a newbie here, from Russia. 

That's the great thing that you, ML, do. One can get a cinematographic camera for a fraction of a cost, not needing to get an expensive Kodak film for $100/can, to develop and scan/telecine it. All you need to start shooting in almost cinema quality is to install the ML firmware, get the quickest SD or CF card you can, and here is it. Our Russian film cameramen don't agree with me, though.

I've got a few questions and thoughts on shooting raw, the main of those is this one:

If you can get a 50D with ML, two 64 GB 1000x CF cards, a card-reader, and an external HDD connected to the notebook, then you can shoot in raw for how long you want to, for the 2 hours or so. A concert, for instance. All you have to do is to swap CF cards, copying raw files from one card to the external HDD as the second card is working in the camera. Am I right? Will the 50D overheat in a few minutes of almost continuous work?

Not quite. But possible.

Remember, it might take longer to download 64GB of RAW files, than it does to record the same amount to the other card. Heat is not really an issue when recording at continuous resolutions. If you fill up a 64GB card, in order to download faster than you can write 64GB worth of video to the other card then you have to have very, very fast hardware. Something like a Macbook Pro with a thunderbolt connection and a fast-writiing external (SSD based) hard drive with a thunderbolt port as well for maximum throughput.

Wlad81

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3793 on: October 23, 2013, 10:28:22 PM »
Thank you so much. I've studied the topic a little more and found out that overheating is really not the problem. The main problem here isn't even the HDD speed because I really can use the simplest MacBook Pro with a Thunderbolt connection and a SATA III HDD (I think no need in SSD because mechanical SATA III HDD can write at 150 MB/s) plugged to it. The main problem here is to find the fastest card reader that can go the full bandwidth of the 1000x CF card at reading. Because 10 (or so) CF cards costs a fortune.

Oh, and that's when using ONE camera and ONE set of two cards. Professional shooting of the thing such as a concert requires using at least two cameras. I can plug another HDD in the bay to the same Thunderbolt port, but what am I to plug a card reader to, especially when it's USB 3.0 one?

So, a lot of problems...
Canon EOS 5D Mk III + Canon 24-105 F/4 L IS USM + SanDisk Exreme Pro 64 GB (SD, ML Nightly.2021Feb07.5D3113) + SanDisk Extreme Pro 128 GB (CF).

50Deezil

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3794 on: October 23, 2013, 11:04:43 PM »
Komputerbay 128GB 1050x records continuous raw at...

23.976

- - 1584x1058 (almost 3:2) - - Shows no bars in the metering... Global Draw is off. (Raw photo mode is ON.)

25 P

- - 1584x1058 (almost 3:2) - - Shows no bars in the metering... Global Draw is off. (Raw photo mode is ON.)

29.970

- - 1584x1058 (almost 3:2) - - 864 frames ((Raw photo mode is OFF.)

5X Center Crop

23.976

1920 x 1080 - 1715 frames (results varied a lot) (Hacked - No Preview proved best results).

1920 x 1038 - Continuous (results varied).

Things to consider is that if you are going to push the card to the limit it want to record a short take and then skip frames. After that first short take it will record something fierce and of course continuously. This is different than the Komputerbay 64 GB card. That card seems to just get up and go and if it gets into a recording bind somehow finds a way to lower buffers. ;D

... Saw a serious increase in the 50D's ability to capture frames by disabling raw in the photo mode. However, I too typically shoot with raw enabled because 1584 x 892 at a standard frame rate is not a stretch for the Komputerbay cards. Have never gotten pink frames either.


If you haven't been following... I purchased a 128 GB 1000x card from Komputerbay about a week ago. Unfortunately, the card would not work with ML on the 50D. I contacted Komputerbay support and they had me send in the card for a firmware adjustment. At that point, I asked to upgrade to the 1050x because they stated that the 1050x would also work with the 50D after they made a firmware adjustment. Well, I got the card back from their tech support today and was absolutely able to load the firmware with success. Yes it's a 128 GB 1050x card and yet it will work with ML! Reads as a 119GB card, but it should be able to capture 128 GB without any trouble. If you notice the 64 GB 1000x cards read as a 60 GB card in the Canon 50D and it still captures a full 64 GB worth of data.

If you are interested in the card, you might want to talk to Komputerbay before purchasing the card from Amazon or ebay. They may have some of the firmware adjusted cards in stock. I don't know for sure, but I would think that they would have at least a few. Who knows?

Thanks for posting this info.  I had given up on the idea of a 128GB card.  This is great news.  What is the highest write speed you get with it so far? 

menoc

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3795 on: October 23, 2013, 11:32:30 PM »
Thank you so much. I've studied the topic a little more and found out that overheating is really not the problem. The main problem here isn't even the HDD speed because I really can use the simplest MacBook Pro with a Thunderbolt connection and a SATA III HDD (I think no need in SSD because mechanical SATA III HDD can write at 150 MB/s) plugged to it. The main problem here is to find the fastest card reader that can go the full bandwidth of the 1000x CF card at reading. Because 10 (or so) CF cards costs a fortune.

Oh, and that's when using ONE camera and ONE set of two cards. Professional shooting of the thing such as a concert requires using at least two cameras. I can plug another HDD in the bay to the same Thunderbolt port, but what am I to plug a card reader to, especially when it's USB 3.0 one?

So, a lot of problems...

Yes. You are right about the sped of the CF reader's throughput - which I thought about but neglected to mention. In the end, it's the sum of the parts that make the difference - a fast port, an adequate Hard drive and a fast CF reader.

I'd still recommend an SSD over a mechanical drive for data protection and for editing projects - unless money is an issue.

oc_masta

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3796 on: October 24, 2013, 01:58:44 AM »
Was also wondering about having an efficient system to record and backup the files on the go, even though short takes are enough for all the work I intend to do.

USB3.0 transfer speeds should saturate the read performance from a 1000x CF card if i'm not mistaken...Around 150mb/s.
Meaning I should be able to copy the whole of my 32gb cf card , in roughly 5 minutes.
Which isn't too bad, could be swapping out to another card in the meantime to get going straight away or just wait out the 5 minutes, format and go.

Wlad81

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3797 on: October 24, 2013, 09:32:43 AM »
I think the workflow may be the next: you record ML firmware on both cards,  working with the second card as the first card is backing up, then erasing all raw files from the first card and swap the cards. And so on. I think if shooting at 1584x1058 is not nesessary, one could shoot in lower resolutions to get more recording time on one card, if the result is DVD. So the computer could be in time to finish backing up the raw files.
Canon EOS 5D Mk III + Canon 24-105 F/4 L IS USM + SanDisk Exreme Pro 64 GB (SD, ML Nightly.2021Feb07.5D3113) + SanDisk Extreme Pro 128 GB (CF).

jcdenton

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3798 on: October 24, 2013, 10:06:32 AM »
could shoot in lower resolutions to get more recording time

As I understand lowering the resolution will result in smaller frame cover (crop factor). As I see from my experience It will increase the DOF distance, noise level and cut the wide angle lenses. If the shooting condition allows, you can use it. But you must notice it.

rockfallfilms

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3799 on: October 24, 2013, 10:16:00 AM »
As I understand lowering the resolution will result in smaller frame cover (crop factor). As I see from my experience It will increase the DOF distance, noise level and cut the wide angle lenses. If the shooting condition allows, you can use it. But you must notice it.

No it won't do that.

Shooting in a lower resolution will just give you a softer image when blown up to 1080P, if you only plan to put it on a DVD then this won't matter. (although, in my experience, shooting a higher res and downscaling does tend to give better results than shooting SD from the outset)

The angle of view, crop factor, DOF, f-stop etc will stay exactly the same regardless of whether you shoot at 1584x1058 or less. All these things will  only change if you enter 5x shooting mode, then the crop factor is around 4x I believe.