Author Topic: 50D Raw video  (Read 652473 times)

krashnik

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3600 on: October 02, 2013, 08:10:21 PM »
I'm not saying I only use the INFO button.  I'm saying that Canon uses it in their manuals & Canon users as a whole think of it as a button to go to for "info" on the screen. 
I'm suggesting a further change to the UI of the system so we can click the INFO button for a rotation of GD info.

Of course I use GD constantly when doing shots, but right now the only way to turn it on/off is through the ML menu, not with a hard-coded button.

I know AF-ON and Expo lock both have issues, this is why I think we should reroute them to other more useful functions.  Overall, we just have many many buttons on the 50D that could be rerouted and used to our benefits as ML shooters instead of browsing constantly through the huge ML menu.

Some people love timelapse, some love ETTR, some love RAW.  If we restructure the hard-coded buttons so we can toggle on/off what our fave uses of ML is, then it makes our equipment much more useful.  While in stock canon mode, I never take my eye off the viewfinder in my photoshoots.  I don't have that luxury when in ML mode due to lack of hard-coded buttons that I'm capable of using.

The few buttons i mentioned with the ability to reroute to a slew of 12 common functions people use would be a weclomed asset by all, I would think?

SebaVuye

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3601 on: October 02, 2013, 08:14:56 PM »
I know this was discussed already somwhere in this thread, but it's 144 pages...

Anyways the latest TL build, I got this thing:


Andy600

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3602 on: October 02, 2013, 09:15:37 PM »
@SebaVuye - mlv or raw?

I get occasional corrupt frames from using mlv_rec on my slower 600x card but non with raw_rec. My 1000x card never has corrupt frames.

Corrupt frames are usually card related. What card are you using?
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

SebaVuye

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3603 on: October 02, 2013, 09:22:36 PM »
@SebaVuye - mlv or raw?

I get occasional corrupt frames from using mlv_rec on my slower 600x card but non with raw_rec. My 1000x card never has corrupt frames.

Corrupt frames are usually card related. What card are you using?

raw_rec, I have a Komputerbay 32GB 1000x, I used raw with an older build(not tragic lantern) and never had this issue. I filmed in crop mode in 2000x1000 with global draw on. Other modules enabled are: ettr, file_man,dual_iso.

Thanks

Andy600

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3604 on: October 02, 2013, 09:27:02 PM »
You do realize that having GD on while trying to record 2000x1000 (or do you mean 1080?) is really pushing raw rec to the limit...literally!?  ???

Disable GD when recording using the setting in the raw module and format your card regularly.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

SebaVuye

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3605 on: October 02, 2013, 09:30:16 PM »
You do realize that having GD on while trying to record 2000x1000 (or do you mean 1080?) is really pushing raw rec to the limit...literally!?  ???

Disable GD when recording using the setting in the raw module and format your card regularly.

Yeah, makes sense Andy :p, I will disable it next time.

Thanks!

1%

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3606 on: October 02, 2013, 09:54:45 PM »
Thats why its in the module, have your cake + eat it too. Any disturbances when using 90% of edmac bandwith will cause issues. Nothing else on the camera writes this fast (or even close).

LEVISDAVIS

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3607 on: October 05, 2013, 10:10:52 AM »
... Definitely noticing how pushing the cam's write limitations tends to develop corrupt frames.

Got corrupt frames with HDMI connected and Global Draw on. Soon as Global Draw was off the corrupt frames went away. Was shooting at 23.976 at 1584 x 892 with a Komputerbay 64GB 1000X.

... Just to be safe, I started turning Global Draw off when using HDMI, even with very low frame rates.  8)
Levi S. Davis

fromdecember

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3608 on: October 05, 2013, 06:08:36 PM »
Out of curiousity.. could you shoot a 'broadcast quality' commercial using the 50d?

Rewind

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3609 on: October 05, 2013, 06:15:24 PM »
Out of curiousity.. could you shoot a 'broadcast quality' commercial using the 50d?

If you imply standard definition size, than you can do it even with t2i.

1%

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3610 on: October 05, 2013, 07:24:12 PM »
Quote
... Just to be safe, I started turning Global Draw off when using HDMI, even with very low frame rates.

Thats why I turn it off while recording :)

HDMI/global draw/etc are all using the edmac or cpu in some way and this means slower writes or corrupt frames.

FilmPerson

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3611 on: October 05, 2013, 08:04:49 PM »
This might not be the place to post this, but is there anywhere that I can download the dng files from the 50d so I can color grade them myself? It's hard to judge the quality by looking at other people's work.

Sniper

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3612 on: October 05, 2013, 09:50:49 PM »
This might not be the place to post this, but is there anywhere that I can download the dng files from the 50d so I can color grade them myself? It's hard to judge the quality by looking at other people's work.

What is it you want to know?  It's raw from a sensor from a very reputable company.  There is nothing like it for even three times the price.  Either you want it or you don't.  The image is like nothing you've ever seen out of 8 bit h264 DSLRs.  It still has issues with moire/aliasing in full frame mode but when you go to cropped mode that all disappears or is greatly diminished.  It still has rolling shutter and jello.  But as far as grading is concerned it's the same as editing a photograph in camera raw.  In fact that's what I do.  I open the raw file which has a weird purple hue to it and either use the eye dropper or auto to set the white balance in Photoshop CS6 and then go from there moving sliders around to get the exposure I want.  A properly trained chimp can grade it.  At least grade it to look realistic.  If you want to do any type of weird teal and orange stuff you will probably have to export your results to another program.  But even then you will be starting off with a much better file.

Really the results are there and there is no competition.  Cropped mode 1920x1080 is pretty much unrivaled anywhere near that price point.

FilmPerson

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3613 on: October 05, 2013, 10:11:17 PM »
I know it's a great value.  I just wanted to compare it to raw on the BMPC, mII, etc.  Helps to know what you're getting before you spend 500 dollars!

Sniper

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3614 on: October 06, 2013, 04:24:38 AM »
I know it's a great value.  I just wanted to compare it to raw on the BMPC, mII, etc.  Helps to know what you're getting before you spend 500 dollars!

Well for one thing $500 is too much.  I got mine in the US for $350.  If you are getting a bare bones body only with one old battery camera then $350.  With some accessories maybe $400.  Check the sold Canon 50Ds on ebay.  With a little bit of patience you will see people picking them up for $350... or less.  If you pick the camera up for $350 and you don't like it you can sell it for not much of a loss.  Not a bad way to try out raw.  You can't compare it to the BMPCC.  BMPCC currently doesn't shoot raw.  You get a flat Prores file out of the camera which is definitely more difficult to grade than the Canon 50D raw.  Any raw workflow is tedious because of all the extra conversion steps.  But when you get your DNG files into Camera Raw it is stupidly easy to adjust exposure and color.  If you can edit a photograph you can grade your movie and if you want to get funky with things like Magic Bullets you can output your file from Camera Raw and import it into whatever program for more grading.

If your concern is grading then don't worry about it.  If you are concerned about moire/aliasing at full frame then yes you should be concerned.  If you are worried about rolling shutter then yes you should be concerned.  What I will say though is the crop mode 1920x1080p is beautiful.  You are going to have to spend a lot more to beat it.

To be honest with you though if you are okay with the smaller sensor on the BMPCC and the issues with IS lenses, etc working with prores files could be nice once you got the grading down.  raw workflow is painful.  I don't know.  I just think all the cameras you mentioned have so many pros and cons.  To me grading raw files is the easy and fun part.  Ingesting the raw from the camera and the absolutely ridiculous storage requirements are what give me pause.  Also you can only shoot 1920x1080p in crop mode.  And you can only do that for a finite amount of time.  I'm okay with making 30 second clips.  Most of mine are a lot shorter so that is not a constraint.  The BMPCC has no such constraints but it has other issues.

FilmPerson

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3615 on: October 06, 2013, 09:43:49 AM »
Thanks for the info on the other cameras, still researching my options. 50d grading is a dream though, so I'm really leaning towards that at the moment. 

While I'm here, what's the highest resolution you guys have managed to record at if you had to record for 1min-1.5 min?  I'm using this camera for narrative film and I'd like to have semi-long takes as an option. And could I possible change the aspect ratio from 16:9 to something like 2:39:1 so I could record longer, while still having it look like a film? Apologize if these are stupid questions, still making my way through the scattered documentation!

araucaria

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3616 on: October 06, 2013, 11:44:45 AM »
Thanks for the info on the other cameras, still researching my options. 50d grading is a dream though, so I'm really leaning towards that at the moment. 

While I'm here, what's the highest resolution you guys have managed to record at if you had to record for 1min-1.5 min?  I'm using this camera for narrative film and I'd like to have semi-long takes as an option. And could I possible change the aspect ratio from 16:9 to something like 2:39:1 so I could record longer, while still having it look like a film? Apologize if these are stupid questions, still making my way through the scattered documentation!
You can do that with all resolutions as long as you got a good 1000x card. So you can film in maximum full crop resolution which is 1584*1030 (or something like that) and 1920x1080, the first one is perfectly continuous and the second one is almost continuous. So you will get a lot more than 1.5minutes.

rommex

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POST PRODUCTION - MOIRE and others
« Reply #3617 on: October 06, 2013, 01:06:12 PM »
Hey people,

Haven't been here for awhile, so this news may have been here.

Since not long ago the popular still RAW processor Capture One supports Cinema DNGs. (You could import them before, but they would be handled incorrectly).

Besides that it gives another (superior, though cumbersome) way of post-product your movie, it provides some extra tools to handle moire in the footage. I'm not sure how it stands against Raw Therapy, but it definitely outperforms ACR engine.

Below is the footage to compare clean DNGs and ex-CO TIFFs imported to AfterEffects.


Basically, now moire with 50D bothers me much less.

rommex

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Resolve 10 and ML
« Reply #3618 on: October 06, 2013, 02:46:12 PM »
Did anyone succeed to open Cinema DNGs from Canon 50D in Resolve 10 Beta? In my case I have immediate CRASH (

Sniper

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3619 on: October 06, 2013, 05:08:29 PM »
While I'm here, what's the highest resolution you guys have managed to record at if you had to record for 1min-1.5 min?  I'm using this camera for narrative film and I'd like to have semi-long takes as an option. And could I possible change the aspect ratio from 16:9 to something like 2:39:1 so I could record longer, while still having it look like a film? Apologize if these are stupid questions, still making my way through the scattered documentation!

If I were you I would try and get a 50D in hand for cheap and try it out.  How much is your time worth?  The idea of shooting a narrative film with plenty of actors and dialog on a 50D is a bit scary.  If you get it for $350 and decide you don't like it you should be able to unload it for $350 and maybe take a $40-$50 hit on shipping/packaging/ebay/paypal fees.  I have a 600D and I shoot a heck of a lot more with that than my 50D.  I don't know what you currently own but if I were to shoot a movie I would use both.  If you use shallow depth of field, nice lighting and close up shots of things like faces you can do a lot with a 600D.  You can even intercut it with raw footage and no one will notice as long as you choose your shots carefully.

The 50D was never meant to shoot movies of any kind let alone 1920x1080 raw.  To me it feels like you are fighting the camera.  There is a very specific procedure to get 1920x1080 video out of the thing.  When you are shooting 1920x1080 and you want maximum record time you have to turn off global draw and you basically have no way to monitor what video is being recorded.  I use it on a tripod and set up the shot.  Then I hit record and count off the seconds.  I don't even look at the camera.  Well sometimes I do to make sure the card is "warmed up."  I'm not sure what all is involved in the warming up process but for some reason the camera can write to the card faster after it has been recording for awhile.  So even with everything set the exact same you won't get the same write speeds to the card between two takes.  That's not a problem for me but if you are going for 90 seconds sometimes in the middle of the take the buffer will fill up and the camera will stop recording.  Get the camera and see what I mean.  It is not as simple as making a couple of basic settings in the morning and then just hitting record whenever you need to do a take and looking at a gorgeous LCD while you film.  Like I said... compromises.

maxotics

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3620 on: October 06, 2013, 05:41:47 PM »
Apologize if these are stupid questions, still making my way through the scattered documentation!

It's great you're reading everything but at some point you get the other problem, paralysis-by-analysis.  Sniper is right.  You can shoot some very nice RAW with the 600D, which is good enough for most people, or you can get a more resolution through the 50D, mostly because it writes to fast (also expensive) CF cards.  I've shot a lot of video with both a 50D and EOS-M.  From everything you'd said I believe you should start with the 600D.  Like Sniper said, it has great H.264 so you can start shooting tomorrow.  Also, 1280x720 RAW on that camera, in crop mode, is VERY, VERY good!  No moire.   I don't shoot much 50D anymore because the 720p is worlds away from 1080p H.264.  Dynamic range, NOT resolution, is the reason you shoot RAW.  If you just want sharpness, the 600D will deliver.

Anyway, just get any Canon camera that will load ML RAW and start working with it.  RAW is a steep learning curve.  I estimate it took me about 100 hours just to get comfortable.  My guess is that it's the same for any serious shooter here.  There are no shortcuts.  I wish there were!


FilmPerson

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3621 on: October 06, 2013, 06:45:09 PM »
I can't stress enough how thankful I am for all this information! It's been very helpful.  What I'm hearing is:

The 50d isn't stable enough to record longer takes consistently because the buffer overloads. (I'm getting mixed messages on this one)

You can't look at what you're shooting (even on an external monitor?)


If this is true then I probably won't be getting the 50d.  Is this correct info or am I misunderstanding you guys?

I'm getting this camera just to practice for now, if I shoot anything serious on it it won't be for the next year.  I'm fine with the awful raw workflow, I've done things similar to it in the past for my non-raw videos. It's grueling but doable.  But if the facts above are true, then there's no way I can afford to experiment with this thing.

Again thanks for the info, after this I promise I'll stop hijacking this thread!

maxotics

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3622 on: October 06, 2013, 07:22:21 PM »
The 50d isn't stable enough to record longer takes consistently because the buffer overloads. (I'm getting mixed messages on this one)

Actually, the 50D is VERY stable.  You just have to have the right card and almost every feature turned off to get 1920x1080p.  However you can upscale any video size and I doubt you lose much IQ shooting 1728x972, which my camera does easily now.  Doubt you could tell the difference on Vimeo.

This is the 50D thread I will mention that I have NOT been able to shoot 1920x1080p continuously for more than 700 frames with my Toshiba 16GB 1000x card.  But again, I only try it for bragging rights.  I can't remember, even when doing that, that the camera has ever crashed.


rockfallfilms

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50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3623 on: October 06, 2013, 08:43:58 PM »
Did anyone succeed to open Cinema DNGs from Canon 50D in Resolve 10 Beta? In my case I have immediate CRASH (

I just tried and get the same crash.

rockfallfilms

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3624 on: October 06, 2013, 09:57:33 PM »
@levisdavis

Any further developments on the 50D VAF from Mosaic?