Author Topic: 50D Raw video  (Read 653325 times)

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3450 on: September 20, 2013, 06:37:53 PM »
Yep, my bad. I forgot to try that one as I never use it. I'll remove it from the build when Bitbucket lets me.  ::)
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Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3451 on: September 20, 2013, 09:02:54 PM »
We still have problems with centering in crop mode.


For the test:-

I centered the image by pressing the joystick in non-crop mode then entered crop mode. I then pressed the joystick again to snap to center and moved the camera until the cross was in center of the spot focus box.

I shot a couple of seconds at 2000x1080, 1920x1080 and 1920x818 (2.35:1) - repeating the centering process for each size.

I loaded the largest frame into photoshop and found dead center with the rulers, then drew a green cross.

I then loaded the other frames and positioned them relevant to the center of the canvas.


You can see that as frame width increases the offset pushes the recordable area further left so that the cross used for centering the camera moves to the right.

The frames with 1080 px vertical resolution also shift the recordable area up so the cross is moved down. This offset decreases with the 818 px height frame which shows there is a percentage based offset at work but the calculation is not yet correct for true (or nearly true) centering.






The image is 1:1 but has been cropped from 2000 x 1080 to show only the center portion.


This has implications for correct framing but having true vertical centering is vital when shooting with anamorphic lenses in crop mode.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

Asiertxu

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3452 on: September 21, 2013, 12:58:09 AM »
Hi Andy!
I´ve installed the last Tragic Lantern Build you recomended and checked the MLV and RAW video modules, as well as Dual Iso ETTR etc..
Then I tryed to go to the menus but they are not there! ie, RAW video and Dual Iso are not there! they´ve dissapeared? or what...??...
Thanks for your great work!
Asier.   

Asiertxu

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3453 on: September 21, 2013, 02:21:19 AM »
Hey!
I finally got all desired modules loaded correctly! :-)
Thanks and cheers!
Asier.

DonJuan

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3454 on: September 21, 2013, 08:09:27 AM »
in a time crunch and didn't have time to search... when I recorded my first 30 second clip all I had in the dcim folder was a MVI (MOV) file. no raw files. What did I do wrong? please help. I have a huge project coming monday, the help will be much appreciated.

akumiszcza

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3455 on: September 21, 2013, 09:04:40 AM »

Hi Andy!
I´ve installed the last Tragic Lantern Build you recomended and checked the MLV and RAW video modules, as well as Dual Iso ETTR etc..
Then I tryed to go to the menus but they are not there! ie, RAW video and Dual Iso are not there! they´ve dissapeared? or what...??...
Thanks for your great work!
Asier.

I think better not enable both mlv and raw modules. And disable, or even remove, script.mo.

akumiszcza

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3456 on: September 21, 2013, 09:09:31 AM »

in a time crunch and didn't have time to search... when I recorded my first 30 second clip all I had in the dcim folder was a MVI (MOV) file. no raw files. What did I do wrong? please help. I have a huge project coming monday, the help will be much appreciated.

It looks like you didn't enable raw video in movie settings (at the bottom). Default is h264 mov, if you just enable video recording. Old module creates .raw (and .r00 etc.) in DCIM folder. New module creates .mlv files in root directory of CF card.

Asiertxu

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3457 on: September 21, 2013, 10:16:51 AM »
Hi akumiszcza!
Thanks alot for your input mate!
I got all modules loaded because of  sissabling that script.mo in the last try, that appears to
be causing all the rests modules not been loaded...
I got MLV.mo, RAW.mo loaded together after removing script.mo... as well as the rest such as ETTR, DualIso etc...
I´ll remove from my CF card that script.mo as you sugest!! :)
Thanks again for your help!
Cheers.
Asier.

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3458 on: September 21, 2013, 12:09:29 PM »
@1% - Sorry, I know this is a total PITA but I'm trying to work out the crop centering issue because I'll need it accurate for shooting anamorphic soon.

I've been playing with the gap settings as per the code (below). The center of crop framing that is visible in Live View (using snap to 5x) is fairly accurate to what is recorded (although it's still offset by about 20px in X/Y) but the sensor area being recorded is to the left of the sensors physical center. Any ideas how to snap to its physical center?


Code: [Select]
/* be careful not to change the raw window */
                    int gap_left = (raw_info.jpeg.width - vram_hd.width) / 2 - delta_x;
                    int gap_top  = (raw_info.jpeg.height - vram_hd.height) / 2 - delta_y;
                    int gap_right = (raw_info.jpeg.width - vram_hd.width) / 2 + delta_x;
                    int gap_bottom  = (raw_info.jpeg.height - vram_hd.height) / 2 + delta_y;
                    if (gap_left < 0) delta_x -= (0 - gap_left);
                    if (gap_top < 180) delta_y -= (180 - gap_top);
                    if (gap_right < 0) delta_x += (0 - gap_right);
                    if (gap_bottom < 180) delta_y += (180 - gap_bottom);
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

bart

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3459 on: September 21, 2013, 12:50:34 PM »
Hi, I switched my 550d for a 50d with KBay 1000x 64GB

First test today with 20sept bugfix build. So much has changed last few months.

I just tried cropzoom 1920x1080 21-23.976 fps
At one point I had a pretty long run 23.976 1080p at 80.6 MB/s
But later on it couldn't continue so I dropped to 21fps

loaded only: MLV, ETTR, Dual iso (set to 100/800)

comments:
- nice new fonts
- MLV and ETTR modules and liveview AF conflict on 50D. I can't run ETTR on set and use halfshutter to start video. With ETTR to set, it also starts on half shutter. I also loose AF in liveview because of the halfshutter. Both half shutter and * start video and both halfshutter and set start ETTR.
- My tamron 11-18 seems accurate framed in hacked cropmode, the 5x zoom display from canon was off when pressing INFO.

The 1080p output is by far the best i've had from canon footage. Great work guys!

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3460 on: September 21, 2013, 01:19:21 PM »
Welcome to the 50D club Bart :)
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araucaria

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3461 on: September 21, 2013, 01:38:33 PM »
Andy what lens have you in mind for anamorphic shooting? I have a sankor 16c and a Isco Ultra Star projection lens. The sankor has a nice touch but for crop mode the sharpness of the Isco is much better.

leojames

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3462 on: September 21, 2013, 01:40:15 PM »
Is there a huge benefit shooting with Dual ISO on ? i have it enabled but don't really see much difference in dynamic range

would there be any extra post processing to be done to achieve better picture quality in ACR..or it's all camera  ?

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3463 on: September 21, 2013, 01:58:53 PM »
Andy what lens have you in mind for anamorphic shooting? I have a sankor 16c and a Isco Ultra Star projection lens. The sankor has a nice touch but for crop mode the sharpness of the Isco is much better.

I have bought one yet. I found a cheap SankorF which doesn't have rear threads but after a lot of reading and watching videos I can see it's a bit soft. I'll try to get an Isco if I can find one cheap enough but as you know, the prices are a bit crazy atm. I'm watching eBay to see what comes up.

Have you had any framing issues? I assume that it's pretty important for the crop area to be inline with the center of the lens because of the way anamorphic lenses bend the image. I can imagine weird things happening to the image if the crop is offset.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3464 on: September 21, 2013, 02:00:32 PM »
Is there a huge benefit shooting with Dual ISO on ? i have it enabled but don't really see much difference in dynamic range

would there be any extra post processing to be done to achieve better picture quality in ACR..or it's all camera  ?

Yes, in some situations. See the Dual ISO thread ;)

I assume you already know it doesn't work for video on the 50D?
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

leojames

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3465 on: September 21, 2013, 02:03:22 PM »

araucaria

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3466 on: September 21, 2013, 02:11:06 PM »
I have bought one yet. I found a cheap SankorF which doesn't have rear threads but after a lot of reading and watching videos I can see it's a bit soft. I'll try to get an Isco if I can find one cheap enough but as you know, the prices are a bit crazy atm. I'm watching eBay to see what comes up.

Have you had any framing issues? I assume that it's pretty important for the crop area to be inline with the center of the lens because of the way anamorphic lenses bend the image. I can imagine weird things happening to the image if the crop is offset.
I havent tried it again, I did one month ago and it was almost impossible, specially because in greyscale mode you can't move the window once you zoomed in. Haven't tried the latest builds because I've been busy. If I find a nice cheap projection lens I'll let you know, but remember they don't have the nice touch of the sankor. If you found a good deal on a sankor go for it. The sankor 16f has a small rear. (I consider a good deal if its sub 100€) But yes, the sankor for crop mode is not such a good idea.

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3467 on: September 21, 2013, 02:14:25 PM »
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3468 on: September 21, 2013, 02:33:48 PM »
I havent tried it again, I did one month ago and it was almost impossible, specially because in greyscale mode you can't move the window once you zoomed in. Haven't tried the latest builds because I've been busy. If I find a nice cheap projection lens I'll let you know, but remember they don't have the nice touch of the sankor. If you found a good deal on a sankor go for it. The sankor 16f has a small rear. (I consider a good deal if its sub 100€)

Hmm, that's not good :( I doubt anything can be done about preview modes and if there is no fix possible for centering the crop area to the sensor using the current algorithms it might need something hardcoded purely for anamorphic use. Not sure how to do it.

sub 100€? I'd love to find one for that kind of money :D The one I found is about 220€ but it's in good shape (apparently). I figured I could use a Vid-Atlantic clamp but I'm a bit worried that the rear of the Sankor might come into contact with my taking lens and scratch the glass.

I guess I'll need to get a monitor too... and rails etc  :-\

Thanks btw. If you do see something cheap lemme know. I'm steering clear of the larger projection lenses to keep things as small as possible.

I should probably just bite the bullet and get this 2x Isco from Vid Atlantic http://vid-atlantic.com/lensshop.html - at least they throw in a clamp LOL
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araucaria

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3469 on: September 21, 2013, 04:02:24 PM »
I paid 100€ for that lens 3 weeks ago (the isco, my sankor was 150€ because I didn't want to wait). Anyway, if you are planning to use it in crop mode, I don't think it's worth the trouble (honestly) because on crop level there is a lot of noise and when you stretch it gets very noticable. It's also very hard to focus perfectly. Here is a quick sample, 28mm 1.4 lens @ f 5.6 with isco ultra star 2x shot at 1920x1080, overexposed to the max to get the noise out, and desqueezed streching horizontally. You can see its not easy to get good focus, the unstreched image looks fine but when you strech it you can see the focus errors pop out a lot.

maxotics

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3470 on: September 21, 2013, 05:22:53 PM »
@araucaria  I'm coming to the same conclusion with everything I've tried on my 50D and EOS-M. 

However, there is still a high-dynamic range look that I can't duplicate with H.264.   As I try to get wide without moire in crop mode I lose resolution.  I just came back from shooting some test footage on an EOS-M using a 22mm with a .20 wide angle adapter.  Getting focus was very difficult.  I'm so close to quitting this ML RAW stuff  :(

But that film look! (God this is killing me).  Araucarai, do you think you can get it shooting H.264, natively, or using ML hacks, to get better dynamic range? 

Or do you feel the tradeoffs you mention just aren't worth it!

Or maybe, despite all those drawbacks. this is still a setup that is worth the film look?

araucaria

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3471 on: September 21, 2013, 05:38:57 PM »
I suck at grading h264, I come from still photography and I am totally spoiled with raw, thats why I like ML raw. I have only nikon lenses (as I am a nikon shooter) and don't have Autofocus with them on the canon. If I had autofocus I think things would be a lot easier (not with double focus anamorphic but with the rest).
Since I don't do this as a Job I will just wait a year or more and see what happens (or if I get some spare money I'd just get a mk iii, and sell it when something better comes along), meanwhile I will deal with the 50D and it's problems (and pray for nikonhacker to get me raw video on the D800 and say goodbye to canon).
Anyway, I think 50D footage without crop shot trying to avoid moire and correcting it later in AE looks better than anything else we had in the amateur world before BMCC and ML RAW, So you can do a lot of things for the web, youtube and vimeo destroy your stuff anyway. And you can even make a small film with it, your audience won't notice, people watch screeners and xvid videos con 50" screens...

maxotics

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3472 on: September 21, 2013, 06:03:53 PM »
Maybe I'm seeing things, but even the RAW I put on Vimeo and show on our TV through Roku has a more film-like look than I can get with any H.264.  I don't think it's grading skills.  The color depth is just not there.  I can flatten the image.  I can add film-like grain.  It just looks phony to me.  Faces are either white, yellow or orange.  BTW, I have a D600.  Great still camera.  I too wish it had RAW, though I can't expect much since it write SD card only.

araucaria

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3473 on: September 21, 2013, 06:08:18 PM »
Yes, h264 colors are very limited, I was refering to the problems of the 50D with aliasing and moire, they are a big deal, but hey, we are not doing hollywood stuff... Good color on the other hand is very important because it gives you the freedom to do what you want, even if it has some artifacts.

In h264 there is also compression, which gives turns some nice motion blur into something sturreing and ugly, shadows detail is a no go, not because noise but because of gigantic compression artifacts.

As for the nikons, I wish they had 10bit output over hdmi and a nice log-c curve, that would be enough. They certainly have the processing power but nikon is just too lazy (or handcuffed by sony).

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #3474 on: September 21, 2013, 06:41:48 PM »
@araucaria thanks for heads-up and the pic. You got that lens for a steal of a price :D

Just out of curiosty, why did you shoot 1920 and not something closer to 1440 x 1080? Just wondering if that would change any of the characteristics of the unsqueezed imaged.

I'm a bit puzzled too about the noise you mentioned as it's still capturing pixels in crop and non-crop but one has skipping. Are you saying that lineskipping actually looks better than 1:1 crop video?  ???
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com