Author Topic: 50D Raw video  (Read 682597 times)

a1ex

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2325 on: July 20, 2013, 10:49:01 PM »
Nope, not even on 5D3.

To get the same quality, you need to sample the entire sensor at 30fps (without line skipping). I doubt the 50D can do that (just look at the rolling shutter from x5 zoom).

araucaria

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2326 on: July 20, 2013, 11:10:44 PM »
The reason I asked is because when doing multiple shots using external intervalometer, I can get a very  clean shot on my 50D. I was under the impression that the dng files inside the raw file have the same quality.

Thanks.
The only consumer cameras I know of doing that are the nikon v1,v2 and for only 2 seconds,so...

johansugarev

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2327 on: July 21, 2013, 04:09:22 AM »
My shots tend to look underexposed compared to a still photo or h264 at the same settings. Anyone else with that feeling?
It still bugs me that LV and the LCD top display show different shutter speed values. Witch is the accurate one?

Naif

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2328 on: July 21, 2013, 06:13:44 AM »
Hi guys, long-time lurker/not-so-secret admirer of all the work going on here, I figured I'd finally join up and see what help I can be.

(Realised what I posted here previously was probably better suited to the workflow board :P)

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2329 on: July 21, 2013, 12:58:05 PM »
thanks for the reply.. I wonder why 50D has problems in making a beep, being the camera able to do it while focusing.
as far as i understood right now the command that works in the others does not work for the 50D right?

regarding dual iso, i found a post from 1% dated yesterday that says he's trying to make it work on 50D:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3904.msg60409#msg60409

I guess you have more recent news if you say it's not possible :(

12/10 bit: it's compression as long as it cuts 2/4 bits of information, but it's still raw. there was a topic with many different attempts started but none was succesful. BMCC has 12 bit raw and it's more than enough! every way to shrink the size of the files without evident loss in quality is welcome, 8 minutes in 32GB is still a problem for longer productions.

I think what 1% was referring to in his comment about the 50D was ADTG shutter timers. The ADTG is a chip in the camera that the devs can now access and use for certain things, Dual ISO being one of them. http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/ADTG

According to the Dual ISO info it "Requires a camera with two analog amplifiers. (cameras with 8-channel readout seem to have this)". The newer cameras 5D MkIII and 6D have this but older cameras do not as they have 4-channel readout. The reason the 7D can also do it (I presume) is that it has dual DIGIC4 processors which is 2 x 4-channel readout (this is also why Dual ISO implementation is more tricky on the 7D).

That's my understanding of it.

re: in-camera compression - forget it!

re: Beep - the 50D does not have the audio components of the other cameras. The focus confirm beep is not the same thing and I think, even if that can be triggered it wouldn't be loud enough to be of any use unless you're using a hotshoe mounted mic.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

riccardocovino

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2330 on: July 21, 2013, 07:59:34 PM »
thanks andy600, now everything is much more clear.

so 1% is trying to make the ADTG work in the 50D but that's just the first step for dual ISO, and next steps are not possible due to single analog amplifier.

my only hope about all of this is the beep, you're right it's not so loud but i still think you can easily recognize it in a normal ambient if shotguns aren't your only source.

the post about 12/10 bit is sadly sleeping from june.. you are right about forgetting it!
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5601.250
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v1rt

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2331 on: July 21, 2013, 08:34:05 PM »
Here is my latest one. What do you think?


thorstone137

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d How to read and set shutter speed settings?
« Reply #2332 on: July 21, 2013, 09:44:48 PM »
Hello. I can't seem to figure out how to read and set my shutter speed settings in ML..

How come when every I make adjustments to ISO my shutter speed changes?

What are the Tv numbers?

Sometimes I can't get my shutter speed setting down to 1/48, how come?

Thanks

1%

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2333 on: July 21, 2013, 09:45:32 PM »
Quote
It still bugs me that LV and the LCD top display show different shutter speed values. Witch is the accurate one?

With ADTG, its LV. Top screen shows you photo shutter.


Quote
According to the Dual ISO info it "Requires a camera with two analog amplifiers. (cameras with 8-channel readout seem to have this)". The newer cameras 5D MkIII and 6D have this but older cameras do not as they have 4-channel readout. The reason the 7D can also do it (I presume) is that it has dual DIGIC4 processors which is 2 x 4-channel readout (this is also why Dual ISO implementation is more tricky on the 7D).

I'm not even sure if 6D has this. I'm having problems there.. .at least on 50D reg0 moves, on 6D it doesn't. I need a log to see what it even looks like from 5D3. Also the reg address keeps changing. I should probably read the PDF, maybe it will help me "get it".





rommex

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d How to read and set shutter speed settings?
« Reply #2334 on: July 21, 2013, 09:53:22 PM »
Hello. I can't seem to figure out how to read and set my shutter speed settings in ML..

How come when every I make adjustments to ISO my shutter speed changes?

What are the Tv numbers?

Sometimes I can't get my shutter speed setting down to 1/48, how come?

Thanks

Welcome to the world of under-development and not-final software, bro ))))

Try this build by Andy:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.msg59779#msg59779

It does adjustment of shutter much better than some previous builds.
It has some... feature that you must be aware of (at least in my camera): when you rotate the front wheel to change the shutter speed, nothing may change. Keep rotating, and the values will start changing. It's a small quirk and once you know it - you are golden. I'd like to repeat: it's much better than previous builds )

Nachelsoul

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2335 on: July 21, 2013, 10:26:29 PM »
My shots tend to look underexposed compared to a still photo or h264 at the same settings. Anyone else with that feeling?
I got the same problem. Asked few days earlier, and no response. I figure out that is something 1% is working on. The only remedy I have found is to enable Constant expo in FPS override settings. Also If you use Auto ETTR, the LV exposure is equal to the Photo and Video exposure.

thorstone137

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2336 on: July 21, 2013, 10:41:51 PM »
Right. I hear ya. I'll try this build :)

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2337 on: July 21, 2013, 11:27:50 PM »
Right. I hear ya. I'll try this build :)

What photo mode are you in?

You should at least be in 'M' manual mode and preferably in a duplicate of it written to a custom preset (C1 or C2) on the top mode dial.

Tv = Time value for auto exposure with shutter priority (which you certainly don't want for video).

All basic camera stuff TBH. I worry when I see people trying to run before they can walk.  ::)

Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2338 on: July 21, 2013, 11:39:30 PM »
I haven't had time to finish writing my guide yet but I would suggest to anyone starting out with raw video on the 50D to first learn the basics of the camera.

I have found that using a custom preset is the least problematic. In other modes the camera will function and behave as it should but may cause issues for video and you might mistake those problems as bugs or Magic Lantern problems.

I suggest you dial-in M on the top dial then write this to either C1 or C2 (custom preset locations). This has proven to be the least problematic for me and it's also 'safer' to use one of these memory spaces. The 50D doesn't have a video mode so C1 or C2 will become that. (btw, C1/C2 will always load as saved so WB, ISO etc will default to saved values unless overridden by Magic Lantern).
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

jgerstel

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2339 on: July 21, 2013, 11:44:33 PM »
Hi

Today I also did some shoot out to test crop mode, will post later. I always put it in M mode, check my settings and shutter in "photo" mode before record. Also in very bright (sun) light I use viewfinder to check, do the focus and then switch to live view for raw recording. This gives me the best & sharp results. If you don't have any filter then shutter must be set higher than 1/48 in bright light.

One more thing: if your "live view" does not really do what you expect in your setting (shutter, iso etc), goto menu, 6th, Live View function settings, expo simulation: Enable 

hope this helps :-)

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d How to read and set shutter speed settings?
« Reply #2340 on: July 21, 2013, 11:47:02 PM »

....It has some... feature that you must be aware of (at least in my camera): when you rotate the front wheel to change the shutter speed, nothing may change. Keep rotating, and the values will start changing.


yes, I've noticed that too. Seems to only change the value on every other click of the wheel.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2341 on: July 21, 2013, 11:56:44 PM »
For exposing correctly for raw video make sure the histogram is first enabled for RAW. You need to set it up and make sure 'hint's are enabled' so you can manually ETTR.

The auto ETTR module is fantastic for photos but it will alter your shutter speed in video mode and you don't really want that.  If it's too bright you will need to stop-down you lens but (depending on your lens) I wouldn't suggest going to the last stop as it may cause diffraction problems. Get a variable ND filter. It's vital in bright conditions TBH.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

BartekS

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2342 on: July 22, 2013, 12:43:05 AM »
Hi,

I see many exposure issues and questions for RAW recording.
I am quite new with ML and RAW recording but from my experience so far the best idea is to put exp. override=ON and set ISO and shutter to fixed value (for fps=24 shutter can not be higher then 1/24). I have fully manual lens (Samyang vdslr) so changing aperture continuously during filming.
Don't you think this is the best idea which gives you full control?

1%

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2343 on: July 22, 2013, 01:14:36 AM »
Quote
yes, I've noticed that too. Seems to only change the value on every other click of the wheel.

Go one shutter up and then turn the wheel back. Or set from ml menu.

This is how canon does it. 50D is mostly expo simulation and geared towards photos. Also turn on raw video after starting "movie' mode.

thorstone137

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2344 on: July 22, 2013, 01:17:10 AM »
Hi

Today I also did some shoot out to test crop mode, will post later. I always put it in M mode, check my settings and shutter in "photo" mode before record. Also in very bright (sun) light I use viewfinder to check, do the focus and then switch to live view for raw recording. This gives me the best & sharp results. If you don't have any filter then shutter must be set higher than 1/48 in bright light.

One more thing: if your "live view" does not really do what you expect in your setting (shutter, iso etc), goto menu, 6th, Live View function settings, expo simulation: Enable 

hope this helps :-)

Thanks :) But I don't understand how you're in M mode and then putting shutter in "photo".. What am I missing here?

Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2345 on: July 22, 2013, 01:20:03 AM »
Hi,

I see many exposure issues and questions for RAW recording.
I am quite new with ML and RAW recording but from my experience so far the best idea is to put exp. override=ON and set ISO and shutter to fixed value (for fps=24 shutter can not be higher then 1/24). I have fully manual lens (Samyang vdslr) so changing aperture continuously during filming.
Don't you think this is the best idea which gives you full control?

Exp override = yes

Shutter speed depends on what you are shooting or what look you are trying to achieve for the motion/motion blur. 1/24 at 24p is a 360 degree shutter. The typical shutter speed for natural motion blur is fps x2 so 24fps would mean 1/48 shutter speed. Go higher for less motion blur and a more choppy look and lower for low light (only if you have to).

ISO is wholly dependent on what you need to achieve correct exposure at your chosen aperture and shutter speed.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

thorstone137

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2346 on: July 22, 2013, 01:24:01 AM »
What photo mode are you in?

You should at least be in 'M' manual mode and preferably in a duplicate of it written to a custom preset (C1 or C2) on the top mode dial.

Tv = Time value for auto exposure with shutter priority (which you certainly don't want for video).

All basic camera stuff TBH. I worry when I see people trying to run before they can walk.  ::)

Thanks for tips Andy ;) For the record I was in M mode. I just got my 50d(without a manual) so I hadn't caught up on the C settings; I've made my presets.

Any tips on setting up the histogram? I understand how to navigate to it and make sure it's on. And I've read up on ETTR so I get that.. And I realize it's an exposure equation of ISO, Aperture, and Shutter speed..

I guess where I'm getting lost is trying to understand where the line or balance is between canon firmware settings and ML's and how they effect each other.

rommex

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d How to read and set shutter speed settings?
« Reply #2347 on: July 22, 2013, 01:29:00 AM »

yes, I've noticed that too. Seems to only change the value on every other click of the wheel.

Andy, in this build I also lost the overexposure warning dots on my histogram, per channel. They are on in the menu for sure, just not displayed. Not a big deal, just so you know.

Thanks for the build, I like it )

thorstone137

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2348 on: July 22, 2013, 01:30:59 AM »
Exp override = yes

Shutter speed depends on what you are shooting or what look you are trying to achieve for the motion/motion blur. 1/24 at 24p is a 360 degree shutter. The typical shutter speed for natural motion blur is fps x2 so 24fps would mean 1/48 shutter speed. Go higher for less motion blur and a more choppy look and lower for low light (only if you have to).

ISO is wholly dependent on what you need to achieve correct exposure at your chosen aperture and shutter speed.

I realize these modules can and will be buggy, and I'm not trying to make a motion picture or doing and commercial work. However, I really would like to start getting consistent results.

And because you are working on a manual so to speak. I'm still meerky when it comes to get a that consistent shutter speed. Should I be prioritizing the FPS (23.976 or 24 for that cinematic look) and let the shutter speed do it's thing?

Or should I be using filters to make sure I always get the shutter speed correct?


Andy600

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #2349 on: July 22, 2013, 01:51:24 AM »
I realize these modules can and will be buggy, and I'm not trying to make a motion picture or doing and commercial work. However, I really would like to start getting consistent results.

And because you are working on a manual so to speak. I'm still meerky when it comes to get a that consistent shutter speed. Should I be prioritizing the FPS (23.976 or 24 for that cinematic look) and let the shutter speed do it's thing?

Or should I be using filters to make sure I always get the shutter speed correct?

It's a big topic but for a quick and very basic set up:

Set FPS to 23.976, 24 or 25p with FPS Override (set FPS override to exact)
Set shutter speed to one of the green values (these are approx 180 degrees)
Set histogram to raw
use the aperture and ISO to push exposure to the right of the histogram. If you see a "-" in front of the exposure value on the histogram you are clipping i.e. E1.0 is ok but E-1.0 is clipping so adjust your aperture and/or ISO to pull it back.

As I say, this is a pretty big topic with many variations of settings either for the shooting conditions, subject matter or for effect (i.e. Private Ryan) but these settings will get you started with (when used properly) good motion blur and good exposure. Don't forget to conform your footage in your NLE to whatever framerate you set FPS override to or you'll get glitchy playback.

If you let the shutter go wild you'll get un-natural looking footage so either try to stay at or around 2x your framerate and then read up on when and why to change the shutter speed.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com