Author Topic: 50D Raw video  (Read 682572 times)

araucaria

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #750 on: June 04, 2013, 02:56:05 AM »
Being able to isolate colors with MUCH more accuracy is a breath of fresh air compared to the usual h264 you get out canon. The image just doesn't fall apart immediately I love it.

HOWEVER, does anyone know why I'm having these frame rate problems? ML RAW says I'm shooting at 24p, when I convert to dng with RAW2DNG it reads as 24p, but if I try to transcode into any codec or even drop raw Tiffs right onto my timeline I get playback as if it's 12fps, then I have to retime it by 2x just get close. Has anyone else experienced this?
Well that used to happen to me doing timelapses in AE, I forgot where you can change the import settings (do a quick google) but you can always press "interprete footage" by right click on the secuence and change the framerate to 24 or 23,976

[edit] I found it, in After effects -> Edit -> Preferences ->Import ->  Image secuence -> set to correct framerate.

CaptainOfObvious

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #751 on: June 04, 2013, 02:59:35 AM »
Where are you processing the TIFF sequences?

Using Raw Photo Processor to process the DNGs into Tiff. From there MPEG Streamclip to process into prores444. I might try using the raw function on my t2i and see if I have the same frame rate problems.

Darn, not using after effects.

artiswar

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #752 on: June 04, 2013, 03:11:46 AM »
Using Raw Photo Processor to process the DNGs into Tiff. From there MPEG Streamclip to process into prores444. I might try using the raw function on my t2i and see if I have the same frame rate problems.

Darn, not using after effects.

It's something in MPEG Streamclip. I'm using QT Pro 7 and no issue.

goldenchild9to5

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #753 on: June 04, 2013, 03:16:43 AM »
Went out for some shots earlier, didn't have the time to process everything and to make an edit, but I wanted to show some shots anyway. Going to try some new workflows with more of the footage later.


Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8, after sunset. High iso.

Ungraded, straight conversions from raw (bit of noise reduction and less sharpening)
Upsized in Premiere to 1080p. Added sharpen 20 in Premiere.

Great job Julian images looks clean looks like it was shot @ ISO 1250.   

paulforte

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #754 on: June 04, 2013, 03:19:56 AM »
My first shot with 50D Raw.

https://vimeo.com/67608412

johansugarev

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #755 on: June 04, 2013, 03:23:56 AM »

Just another test video. Trying to wrap my head around the low light performance of this beast.
Shot with Sigma 30mm f/1.4 at 1/50 H1 (ISO 6400 equivalent) at 1592x864. Upsized in Premiere to 1080p (just scaled 121%).

Pushed the exposure in ACR two stops up, so equivalent = ISO 25.600. Added a bit of luma and color noise correction to taste, kept sharpening low.

Here's a screen grab, edited and unedited
Did you use FPS override or is this 30fps?

goldenchild9to5

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #756 on: June 04, 2013, 03:27:34 AM »
My first shot with 50D Raw.

https://vimeo.com/67608412

Beautiful images.. What was you workflow?  Did you shoot @ 24FPS exact? 

pinger007

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Re: FPS and Aperture
« Reply #757 on: June 04, 2013, 03:31:56 AM »
Answers:
1) 25FPS will work too, but the lower the FPS the less bandwidth is needed. Make sure you get a 1000x card and you're fine :)
2) I read that also, but I had no problem controlling an EF-S lens. Maybe someone else can help you out... If this is even an issue I am pretty sure it will be fixed one day

You can definitely control electronic aperture lenses, but it's currently a bit of a hassle.  There's an option in the magic lantern menus to select DOF Preview sticky.  When you select this, you can push the DOF preview button on the front of the camera (just to the lower left of the lens).  Once engaged, the liveview button will light up blue and your lens aperture will be correct.  However, if you are shooting raw, you must first push the live view button to begin recording, and THEN you press the DOF preview button.  When you're ready to stop recording, you must FIRST disengage the DOF preview, and THEN press the live view button to stop filming.
all you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you

paulforte

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #758 on: June 04, 2013, 03:54:48 AM »
Beautiful images.. What was you workflow?  Did you shoot @ 24FPS exact?

My workflow was the following:

1. raw2dng
2. Import .dng into After Effects, correct white balance.
2a. Adjust the aspect ratio to 66% because I shot with anamorphic lens
2b. Made some color corrections using the basic color corrector inside AE
3. Export to Pro Res 422 at 1280 x 720 and upload to Vimeo. (didn't bother with 1080 for this)

I used 23.98  FPS override in the 50D.

The above is very straight forward (and I love AE's Raw processor cos its just like Lightroom). I intend on shooting more when I get my 128GB CF card (and, er, with a tripod), and I want to master the online / offline workflow using Pro Res 4444 1080 as my master files, then edit in 422 in FCP then reconform to 4444, color and export. That looks like the best workflow to me. Although, not sure if I need 4444 or 422 just yet. Maybe it's not worth the extra work.

CaptainOfObvious

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #759 on: June 04, 2013, 03:59:45 AM »
It's something in MPEG Streamclip. I'm using QT Pro 7 and no issue.

Thanks, that pushed me in the right direction. I just tried compressor, and it seemed to render the frame rate accurately, the problem is every time I try to load an image sequence larger than about 140 frames compressor hangs on me. So close yet so far!

At least it wasn't something on the camera side.

arrinkiiii

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #760 on: June 04, 2013, 03:59:56 AM »
Likewise. The growth of this is phenomenal.

Yes, indeed. I was impossible to make a donation at the time went out the  ML for the 7D, which is my camera ... but I followed the treat of the 50D from the beginning and how I could not in my time I want to do it now ... although i dont have a 50D, but very soon i will buy one  ;D


goldenchild9to5

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #761 on: June 04, 2013, 04:10:28 AM »
My workflow was the following:

1. raw2dng
2. Import .dng into After Effects, correct white balance.
2a. Adjust the aspect ratio to 66% because I shot with anamorphic lens
2b. Made some color corrections using the basic color corrector inside AE
3. Export to Pro Res 422 at 1280 x 720 and upload to Vimeo. (didn't bother with 1080 for this)

I used 23.98  FPS override in the 50D.

The above is very straight forward (and I love AE's Raw processor cos its just like Lightroom). I intend on shooting more when I get my 128GB CF card (and, er, with a tripod), and I want to master the online / offline workflow using Pro Res 4444 1080 as my master files, then edit in 422 in FCP then reconform to 4444, color and export. That looks like the best workflow to me. Although, not sure if I need 4444 or 422 just yet. Maybe it's not worth the extra work.

Thanks for reply.. you should try 24fps Exact just tried it today, gonna compare with low light.  I think ProRes 4444 1080 is the way to go, you will have all the flexibility in post to grade. 

goldenchild9to5

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #762 on: June 04, 2013, 04:11:50 AM »
Yes, indeed. I was impossible to make a donation at the time went out the  ML for the 7D, which is my camera ... but I followed the treat of the 50D from the beginning and how I could not in my time I want to do it now ... although i dont have a 50D, but very soon i will buy one  ;D

You don't even have a 50D yet Wow.. you gotta be a true fan of the 50D than.  Hope you get yours soon let us know. 

Ifani

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #763 on: June 04, 2013, 04:20:49 AM »
damn i was kicked out because of timelimit i guess ;D

can i still donate for the cf card for 1%?
i got a 50D one week ago and like to support julians commitment to press ahead with the 50D raw filmmakingpossibility one couldnt imagine a few weeks ago, started with the 5d mk3.

the abilities even low budget enthousiatsts get right now are groundbreaking.

hope i can help more when a transcend 16gb 1000x arrives:)

Ifani

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #764 on: June 04, 2013, 04:30:33 AM »
P.S.
big thanks to this community for the possibilities people get in filmmaking, it's amazing.
(that was also something like i wrote in my first post, when i got kicked out haha :))

in early tests with a transcend 400x 32gb i shot in 1280 x 752 i guess, i noticed a lot of moire. (a detailed street scenery)
what are your experiences?
is it acceptable in 1592 width?

greetings
David


artiswar

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #765 on: June 04, 2013, 05:02:43 AM »
Zeiss glass and the 50D tonight. Finally. I'll get a video up soon. Show some log to color stuff.

Roman

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #766 on: June 04, 2013, 05:06:57 AM »
@Roman: thanks for testing. Looking forward to the results

Hey sorry I've been busy but when I had a look... some footage I filmed at 10x zoom didnt seem to be affected by this (although it was probably 'stretching' the image rather than downsizing it to achieve 10x zoom?)

I havent had a good look at the 5x ones yet.

But since it's not present in the still picture raw files that I've taken, I've got a few theories...

1. It's something to do with how raw2dng debayers the image perhaps, or this needs to work slightly different for 50D compared to other cameras? Probably not if it doesnt affect 10x zoom images.

2. When it downsamples the image for livewview perhaps it takes 'clusters' of pixels rather than 1? So you get an aliased/moired 'edge' on the blocks of 4 or 6 pixels wide which is giving the square pattern. (I'll try count the 'block' size tonight)

Might be a plan to try shoot some 'dark' frames and subtract the difference from an image to find the exact pattern and see if that helps figure out what might be causing it. Or, I wonder if part of the in camera iso noise reduction could remove this in real time if it's caused by predictable sensor noise. Or maybe worst case scenario batch subtracting 'dark' frames from shots that are affected might help if it's uniform in appearance.

arrinkiiii

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #767 on: June 04, 2013, 05:14:03 AM »
You don't even have a 50D yet Wow.. you gotta be a true fan of the 50D than.  Hope you get yours soon let us know.

Yes, im huge fan of 50D  :D  i just use my 7D for video and some times the foto for timelapse... i already think exchange my 7D for a 50D and some more money... but then i lost my 60fps and sound capability. So, i will wait more a little bit and get the all money for one 50D and some cf cards. 

...and also this is one way to say thanks  ML All Super Stars Team, thank you for the 7D ML (close donation at that time...) and for all the achievement that they have for over pass the Canon functions.

Lets rock !!!

clovis

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #768 on: June 04, 2013, 05:26:34 AM »
I haven't 'counted' it but it runs out pretty fast I think. I'm not very concerned about it, just keep a few spares and my card is full (32GB) before I run out of a battery anyway. You'd need a sh*tload of storage to shoot more than you can last with your batteries.
Julian, I would like to donate, please can you send your pay pal information to my email

artiswar

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #769 on: June 04, 2013, 05:28:30 AM »
Hey sorry I've been busy but when I had a look... some footage I filmed at 10x zoom didnt seem to be affected by this (although it was probably 'stretching' the image rather than downsizing it to achieve 10x zoom?)

I havent had a good look at the 5x ones yet.

But since it's not present in the still picture raw files that I've taken, I've got a few theories...

1. It's something to do with how raw2dng debayers the image perhaps, or this needs to work slightly different for 50D compared to other cameras? Probably not if it doesnt affect 10x zoom images.

2. When it downsamples the image for livewview perhaps it takes 'clusters' of pixels rather than 1? So you get an aliased/moired 'edge' on the blocks of 4 or 6 pixels wide which is giving the square pattern. (I'll try count the 'block' size tonight)

Might be a plan to try shoot some 'dark' frames and subtract the difference from an image to find the exact pattern and see if that helps figure out what might be causing it. Or, I wonder if part of the in camera iso noise reduction could remove this in real time if it's caused by predictable sensor noise. Or maybe worst case scenario batch subtracting 'dark' frames from shots that are affected might help if it's uniform in appearance.

If its a fixed pattern, shooting an 18% grey solid at all ISOs and holding that in neat video as a preset will knock it out perfectly.

Roman

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #770 on: June 04, 2013, 05:34:10 AM »
Aahhh yeah true! I forgot about neat video heh.

Perhaps that could be the way to go, then upload Neat video presets for the pattern noise removal.

artiswar

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #771 on: June 04, 2013, 05:35:04 AM »
Aahhh yeah true! I forgot about neat video heh.

Perhaps that could be the way to go, then upload Neat video presets for the pattern noise removal.

That might work, a cam to cam profile might be better. Due to the fact that it's raw.

Roman

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #772 on: June 04, 2013, 05:42:36 AM »
Yeah good point... I guess there might be more variance on account of that 50Ds are about 5yrs old now, compared to others. I think mine might be due for a clean.

e46

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #773 on: June 04, 2013, 05:57:49 AM »
Thank you ML for reviving my 50d, it has been parking at my drybox for more than a year.

I just get one sandisk extreme pro, loaded ML (28May) on it and tested my first raw video, i got average speed of 55mbps.

and here is it, my 6 months old baby girl tasting her first papaya.




Roman

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Re: Raw video on 50d and 40d
« Reply #774 on: June 04, 2013, 01:58:55 PM »
Been doing some more tests tonight. I'm not convinced that there is any control over ISO or shutter speed at this stage. (using a manual lense, samyang 35mm)

For example if I'm recording at 30fps, I can set it to higher than 1/30th of a second which shouldnt be possible. Setting it any lower appears to make no difference I can discern either.

Also selecting through different ISOs, and the raw histogram stays exactly the same.

When I scroll the camera past a dark scene, to a light scene, and back to a dark scene, the camera is automatically adjusting the exposure to suit.

I havent checked the footage itself yet though... But I would assume it corresponds with the live view image, given that's where the raw file comes from.

As best I can tell there's no way to adjust the "exposure override" settings when it's in movie mode.

EDIT: Here are two frames from a panning shot with no settings adjusted by me:







Another update:

Okay so doing some more checks back home , it looks as though changing exposure works... up to a certain point. I think it just needs a 'lock' at the upper limit relating to FPS.

And it looks like ISO adjustment works now too... super weird.  Working in both recording and not.

I definitely had the camera set to 'M' and tried adjusting settings with no luck while out earlier.