50D Raw video

Started by Andy600, May 22, 2013, 03:40:57 PM

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Roman

hmmm yeah I wouldnt commit to buying one just yet...

As best I know they basically are optimised for the 1080p resolution for standard video, if you recorded in 720p it doesnt quite work as intended.

Since we're not necessarily recording at a size/resolution/etc which is comparable to standard 1080p, it may come out strange.

It's annoying that they're such a niche item though, it's not as though you can just borrow one from your neighbour to test haha.

Although my understanding of how it works may be incorrect... I'd definitely just ask a lot of questions before committing $$$ to it though.

artiswar

Quote from: Roman on May 31, 2013, 02:56:39 AM
hmmm yeah I wouldnt commit to buying one just yet...

As best I know they basically are optimised for the 1080p resolution for standard video, if you recorded in 720p it doesnt quite work as intended.

Since we're not necessarily recording at a size/resolution/etc which is comparable to standard 1080p, it may come out strange.

It's annoying that they're such a niche item though, it's not as though you can just borrow one from your neighbour to test haha.

Although my understanding of how it works may be incorrect... I'd definitely just ask a lot of questions before committing $$$ to it though.

Good call. There're some other DIY options I want to try first anyway.

goldenchild9to5

Quote from: Andy600 on May 31, 2013, 02:45:01 AM
It's not in my hands but it's arrived in the country. Got to pick it up but never had a chance today and I missed delivery of another 'temporary' card that I bought locally while waiting. I think I used up all my luck getting the camera cheap :D

Lol.. at least the card is here for pick-up.  I have to wait a couple more days to get the camera & card I'm patient.  In the meantime I'm clearing out space from my Hard-Drive & updating my system from Adobe CS5.5 to CS6 

KahL

Back from my test shoot with yesterday's build on the 50D w/ some great results. I'll show some updated images in a few after processing the .RAW files shortly :) It's turning out better and better!

KahL

Quote from: CaptainOfObvious on May 31, 2013, 01:06:39 AM
Not using ACR, but Raw Photo Processor seems to have done a decent job with it.



Green'ish blacks looks much like Kodak Portra film with that frame.

GregoryOfManhattan

hear good things from KahL and JulianH who have been testing this build.
https://bitbucket.org/GregoryOfManhattan/magic-lantern/downloads/50D-2013May28build.zip

if you are new to ML or 50D, please
1. Make sure you can install and use the officially release Magic Lantern 2.3 with beautiful h.264 1920x1080 video on the 50D. http://www.magiclantern.fm/releasenotes
2. Read the "RAW video & ML -- Beginners Guide and FAQ -- READ FIRST" http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5520.0
3. remember that this is alpha - things will break, when in doubt pull it out - the battery. if you set up an action sequence and the train rolls up on cue as the actor in the jeep pulls up, and he jumps off the jeep runs up to a boxcar and jumps onto the rolling train - your shot may be lost or ruined with alpha code.
4. there may be quirks where for example the first recording after loading a battery fails with dropped frames but everything thereafter works. 

lets see some more raw videos. please share your results and workflow.
regards,
gregory





if you don't know how to use it, stick with the release

menoc

Quote from: CFP on May 31, 2013, 12:25:38 AM
@ menoc:

Another way to get higher resolutions:

Use 5X crop mode. Capture first frame, move the AF-box, capture second frame, move the AF-box, capture third frame, move the AF-box, fourth frame, reset the AF-box to the first position and repeat the whole thing.

In post just merge the 4 frames together - On the 50D you would get almost 4K!

But I don't see this working at 24 frames per second.

And the file spanning thing should be solved soon. Btw. why aren't you just using exFat like on the 600D and 5D Mark III to record over 4 GB in one file? Doesn't that work on the 50D?

And the green tint is a black level issue. Should bee easy to fix that.

See what you're saying but as you capturing multiple Liveview grabs per frame would require perhaps a faster processor. Who knows, they may figure it out at some point. Remember, a year ago all the developers swore that RAW was impossible!!

The 50D's hardware itself does not support exFat. Only the newer cameras and the 5D3 supports it. But the thing is that if we can do seamless file spanning (files that have no time breaks or skipped frames between them) then Fat32 is not an issue.

It'll be interesting to see where we are by August or September of this year.

Roman

Okay I just bought a Sandisk 90mb/s 16gb.

Ran an initial speed test in the 50D- 35-39mb/s :(

However after reformatting, following this guide:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/113967-ssd-alignment.html

It's now getting between 60-70mbs! Quite a remarkable difference just on account of formatting in a particular way.

Still not as good as 100mb/s or whatever from Komputerbay but I was impatient and this was the best I could get today haha.

leggman7

Great work everybody on getting this done! Given the subject of this thread, is this close to happening on the 40d as well?

menoc

Quote from: necronomfive on May 31, 2013, 12:27:47 AM
From what I have gathered so far, the ARM CPU in all Canon EOS is not fast enough to do any kind of real-time processing on the image data (like scaling, or bit reduction). The other problem would be that at 4K resolution, DMA probably puts a heavy burden on the SDRAM bandwidth, limiting other bus masters which access the memory area.

But what I still need to understand is why the maximum resolution increases in live view when the zoom mode is being used. I understand that Magic Lantern is currently using the default Canon register settings for the DIGIC4, which controls the downsampling of the sensor image data before it's written to SDRAM for Live View. The different screen sizes are a result of a EDMAC copy with different size parameters from that area.

The question now is: how flexible is DIGIC4 in downsampling the sensor data before it's written to SDRAM?

Sorry if I sound like a total noob, but I'm still reading my way through the sorce code and the reverse engineered register list.  :-[

My guess is that in order to make the crop mode usable, Canon engineers probably had to increase the resolution but for monitoring through the LCD you don't need that much resolution - it was meant just to be a display, plain and simple. But this suggests that there is a lot of upscaling and downscaling going on before the data gets to SDRAM. I don't know that hijacking that process is doable as it may require modifying the firmware

goldenchild9to5

Quote from: GregoryOfManhattan on May 31, 2013, 04:24:20 AM
hear good things from KahL and JulianH who have been testing this build.
https://bitbucket.org/GregoryOfManhattan/magic-lantern/downloads/50D-2013May28build.zip

if you are new to ML or 50D, please
1. Make sure you can install and use the officially release Magic Lantern 2.3 with beautiful h.264 1920x1080 video on the 50D. http://www.magiclantern.fm/releasenotes
2. Read the "RAW video & ML -- Beginners Guide and FAQ -- READ FIRST" http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5520.0
3. remember that this is alpha - things will break, when in doubt pull it out - the battery. if you set up an action sequence and the train rolls up on cue as the actor in the jeep pulls up, and he jumps off the jeep runs up to a boxcar and jumps onto the rolling train - your shot may be lost or ruined with alpha code.
4. there may be quirks where for example the first recording after loading a battery fails with dropped frames but everything thereafter works. 

lets see some more raw videos. please share your results and workflow.
regards,
gregory





if you don't know how to use it, stick with the release

Thanks for Sharing Gregory.. will try as soon as I get my camera. 

goldenchild9to5

Quote from: Roman on May 31, 2013, 04:35:30 AM
Okay I just bought a Sandisk 90mb/s 16gb.

Ran an initial speed test in the 50D- 35-39mb/s :(

However after reformatting, following this guide:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/113967-ssd-alignment.html

It's now getting between 60-70mbs! Quite a remarkable difference just on account of formatting in a particular way.

Still not as good as 100mb/s or whatever from Komputerbay but I was impatient and this was the best I could get today haha.

Roman did you do every single step when formatting your card? 

paulforte

I'm very excited to try raw recording on my newly acquired 50D. If I crack it, I'll post video and DNGs for sure.

I'm a little confused as to the state of things and what I can expect. How long will I be able to record raw on the 50D for? Assuming a fast card and the maximum allowable resolution / frame rate. What can i expect?

Please forgive the question but its not obvious to me from reading the forum.

necronomfive

Quote from: menoc on May 31, 2013, 04:56:16 AM
My guess is that in order to make the crop mode usable, Canon engineers probably had to increase the resolution but for monitoring through the LCD you don't need that much resolution - it was meant just to be a display, plain and simple. But this suggests that there is a lot of upscaling and downscaling going on before the data gets to SDRAM. I don't know that hijacking that process is doable as it may require modifying the firmware

I mean, for standard Live View, it's clear that it's 1/3 downscaling, because that's the easiest way to downscale the sensor data while retaining the bayer pattern structure. Very easy to implement in hardware.

As I understand, 5x and 10x zoom configures the scaling factor to x1, but DIGIC writes only a window of the original sensor area into SDRAM. The question would be if the width and height and position of this window can be adjusted in hardware, which, in theory, would enable to save, let's say, 2K of sensor data to SDRAM (of course with a much bigger crop factor, but that's basically the same "problem" the Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera has). I bet that it's possible, because DIGIC4 was obviously designed to adapt to different sensor metrics (50D vs. 5DMKII).

Adjusting the width and height of the sampling window inside the DIGIC4 (instead of just copying a rectangle from a larger area via EDMAC), might also have a positive impact on performance, because only data that's supposed to be visible is being copied to SDRAM, freeing additional bandwidth for Compact Flash DMA.

If such registers exist, they would be changed by the Canon firmware when the User presses the +/- buttons in Live View and could be overridden by the raw recording task.

savale

@JulianH: for (digital) panning mode you need to film in crop mode right? What (crop mode) did you use for the "Scheveningen" movie? thnx I will do my first tests this weekend

Quote from: artiswar on May 31, 2013, 02:53:24 AM
Any idea from anyone out there if the Mosaic Engineering AAF for the 60D would fit the 50D? Could be a nice solution for the moire and aliasing issues.

As mentioned it won't work since it's not recording 1920*xxxx. Another workaround would be to film in crop mode (it will eliminate more/aliasing), but we need wider angle lenses for that  (a 12mm to get the same 35mm look for example)...

necronomfive

Crop factor in 1920x1080 should be around (4770/1920)*1,6 = 3,975. So a 12mm lens would be equal to 48mm.

On the other hand, it would enable to use regular 16mm /Super 16mm film lenses for filming, because the size of the used sensor area would measure around 9,05mm x 5,08mm, which fits into the 16mm size boundaries.

So, in theory, IF the 50D code could be optimized to write 1920x1080 24fps in cropped mode, it would be a perfectly useable digital replacement for a 16mm film camera. Even better, you could switch between full resolution in 16mm mode, or slightly lower resolution for shots which require shallow DOF.

1%

QuoteThe 50D's hardware itself does not support exFat.

Has nothing to do with hardware. Check if exfat strings exist in the FW. Either support for the FS is in there or not.

Exfat released in 2009... 50D first release in 2008.. latest 50D firmware released in 2012 and should share the same code base as other cameras. So 50/50.

If your skips are wrong either you'll get darkened/green shadows or pink image. Every mode is slightly different just take a silent pic with 0 skips and count the pixels.

For raw photo.. the skips are in the meta data of the cr2 files... open with photoME. You have to get the right state for it to grab the raw buffer... its probably the 5d2 state.

QuoteThe question would be if the width and height and position of this window can be adjusted in hardware

You should be able to move  the zoom window around.. making it bigger probably not. Otherwise they would have done a full height -> ram and not bothered. They seem to like big image in ram and then lots of transforms to it to get H264/YUV/etc.



JulianH

Quote from: savale on May 31, 2013, 10:15:41 AM
@JulianH: for (digital) panning mode you need to film in crop mode right? What (crop mode) did you use for the "Scheveningen" movie? thnx I will do my first tests this weekend
You don't have to use crop mode for panning. I shot at 1592x530 so you can pan up and down quite a lot. You could also shoot 1280x720 and pan in all directions.

In my last movie, only the last zoomed shot of the kissing couple is in crop mode (5x). I shot a lot more in crop mode but everything turned out greenish as showed earlier, so I left most of it out of the video.

a1ex

If you have green color cast, the skip values in raw.c are not correct. Set black level manually to 1024 when developing the raws.

JulianH

I dont think its possible to set the black level in acr. Ill give raw therapy a try or should i use something else?

savale

Quote from: JulianH on May 31, 2013, 11:00:56 AM
You don't have to use crop mode for panning. I shot at 1592x530 so you can pan up and down quite a lot. You could also shoot 1280x720 and pan in all directions.

In my last movie, only the last zoomed shot of the kissing couple is in crop mode (5x). I shot a lot more in crop mode but everything turned out greenish as showed earlier, so I left most of it out of the video.

I understand :) When not in crop mode: you can pan up and down because of the 4/3 sensor size. Pan left / right is not possible of course... Thnx

Roman

Hey regarding card speed etc on 50D, I've been having some inconsistent results since formatting the card initially.

With the 600D there were some settings I put the camera to, to eke out a bit more performance... I got it running bang on the 20-12mb/s limit.

However no matter what I've done so far with the 50D, I havent been able to get back to the combination of things which gave me  60-70mb/s.

I've tried: Setting camera to raw, sraw2, small jpg, large jpg (doesnt seem much difference to speed test)

global view on/off - meh.

But then, camera set to 30fps as per default - gave me 30-40mb/s

So I tried exposure override to 2fps, and got 50-60mb/s

Then back to 24fps, and getting somewhere in the middle.

Why would this be? And what settings do other people have, to acheive the 100mb/s read/write speeds if I'm getting non card related variance at such a lower speed? It seems reformatting either in camera, in windows, or aligning the partition dont make much difference now.

GregoryOfManhattan

JulianH and 1%, yes we discussed changing the settings in raw.c
we know that 2 out of 6 camera specific parameters in raw.c are incorrect for 50D.
asking community for input is yielding slow results.

need to know for both regular and zoomed in exactly how many pixels top,right,bottom,left of black are present if any.
Julian says 2 on the left and i asked to clarify if that is zoom only and prefer confirmation from another user before editing code.
Quote from: GregoryOfManhattan on May 31, 2013, 02:06:35 AM
yes, this is what we need to adjust.
can someone please load in a processed raw of each type {zoomed and not-zoomed} and measure how many pixels off we are.

Julian sees 2 black pixels on left is that for zoomed or not or both?
the zoomed in image is the one with the potential black point shift - see any more black edges?

same for the QR_mode image sizes - http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.msg43295#msg43295

i did scan the ufraw-0.19.2 source code to confirm the CAM_COLORMATRIX1 (1 out of 6)

a1ex

Set the skip offsets to 0, set 1024 for black level, then check the black border sizes in Paint (count the pixels). That's it.

2FAST

Hi everyone! I got 50D yesterday and made some test shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2X1KqNmiDQ

I wanted upload to Vimeo but I could not.
I'm using sandisk Extreme 60MB/s.

I don't have windows so I'm using Macboot but it doesn't work well.
Camera says "script dir missing" always.
So I'm keeping ML program in my CF card.
Then it woks well.
But if I could use Macboot correctly, then it's very helpful.
I checked some tutorial movie and I did same but still ML program don't stay in camera.
Any Mac user have same problem with 50D or only me?

I don't have a time in this weekend. But I will have some free time in next week and would go to some test shot.
And gonna film more cool footage.

Please let me know if you guys have some question. I want to support each other on this board though my English is not so good. But I do my best.

Thanks a lot!