Author Topic: 50D Raw video  (Read 651914 times)

Andy600

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3975 on: November 05, 2013, 07:39:39 PM »
I'd rather invest the money towards an anamorphic 2x and shoot in crop. The VAF degrades the image to much for me.
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menoc

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3976 on: November 05, 2013, 07:59:23 PM »
It's difficult for me at that price because I think sell my 50D with lens for $500 and get a BMPCC for $500 more instead of $800 invested in 50D with VAF.  These filters need to be at $200 for them to hit any sort of volume IMHO, at least for the APS-C sized cameras.  Might want to check with David if he can do them at that price if he gets X amount of commits.

$200 would be awesome, but they do have to make a return on investment. I'd guess that they could come down a bit if enough people ask for them.

menoc

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3977 on: November 05, 2013, 08:04:54 PM »
$200 would be awesome, but they do have to make a return on investment. I'd guess that they could come down a bit if enough people ask for them.

BTW, have shots been taken with the final model of the VAF? I know there was an ML user testing a pre-production model . . .

menoc

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3978 on: November 05, 2013, 08:08:02 PM »
I'd rather invest the money towards an anamorphic 2x and shoot in crop. The VAF degrades the image to much for me.

Is there a link to the test shots? I'd like to see them . . .

PhilK

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3979 on: November 05, 2013, 08:14:19 PM »
Is there a link to the test shots? I'd like to see them . . .

Levi S. Davis should pop his head back into this thread at some point, he's been testing the prototype.

Here's his video for the prototype:

For me this is worth the money, especially at 200 bucks!

rockfallfilms

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3980 on: November 05, 2013, 08:38:13 PM »
I was definitely interested in buying one but I've just worked out how much it will cost me.

By the time I've paid import tax and VAT to the UK it would cost nearly £300 which is about $480. It's a shame that Mosaic don't have a UK/Europe distributor. Unfortunately I live in Ripoff Britain!

Therefore I'm in two minds now and I'd need to see some more convincing tests before I spent the money.

lomka

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3981 on: November 05, 2013, 09:25:55 PM »
I cant get why people think that BMPCC is better than 50d.
1. APS-C sensor is way too bigger than the Super 16 one.
2. you cant get that film look effect on BMPCC, users say that it shoots iPhone like video.
3. you can get crop factor similar to BMPCC on 50D in 2.475x crop mode.
4. you can get canon for 300-400$ when BMPCC costs 1000$. (300-400$ + 295$(VAF) = 595-695$ + you get pretty good camera for stills as well)
5. 50d can run ML software, that means you have tons of addons on your camera to make your work easier.



lionelp

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3982 on: November 05, 2013, 09:34:29 PM »
I'd rather invest the money towards an anamorphic 2x and shoot in crop. The VAF degrades the image to much for me.
Andy:
I am with you on that, but wouldn't non crop mode suit anamorphic shooting just as well  because of the 4:3 sensor?(assuming you are shooting x2). Although On non crop  you are not starting out at 1920x1080.
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menoc

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3983 on: November 05, 2013, 10:08:37 PM »
Andy:
I am with you on that, but wouldn't non crop mode suit anamorphic shooting just as well  because of the 4:3 sensor?(assuming you are shooting x2). Although On non crop  you are not starting out at 1920x1080.

What Andy is saying is, he's not willing to compromise quality. When you shoot in crop mode, the camera is reading out the entire feed - no line skipping- therefore you get much better quality and no moire and aliasing. Of course, the drawback is that framing is a bit more difficult and you must shoot with the widest angled lens you can get, something like a 10 or 20mm lens in order to have more of a "normal" lens type of frame.

I do agree with Andy when it comes to the quality benefits of shooting in crop mode. But having options is always good as well. Especially in situation where you have to use a zoom lens to get wide or close-up shots quickly and not have to worry too much about aliasing and moire.

Andy600

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3984 on: November 05, 2013, 10:10:28 PM »
Andy:
I am with you on that, but wouldn't non crop mode suit anamorphic shooting just as well  because of the 4:3 sensor?(assuming you are shooting x2). Although On non crop  you are not starting out at 1920x1080.

Of course and there is a choice of aspect ratios. Shooting anamorphic also seems to help a little with aliasing and moire. Julian H's shot some 50D anamorphic footage and posted it earlier in this thread https://vimeo.com/67023056
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1%

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3985 on: November 05, 2013, 10:52:31 PM »
Blargh...

so now shutter displayed is the photo shutter, ie wrong
shutter in the ML menu is for some reason converted to a small version the real ADTG shutter range when FPS override is on, so wrong
the range is like fps - ~100 but you get values like 101.2, etc when checking via ADTG gui it looks like we have the whole range just its displayed completely strange

so....
right now don't trust the shutters displayed so much in video.

So looking at it further maybe something with base frequency + shutter timer.... if you copy the base from other cameras you get different fps calculated stock, right now it shows 29.985 which sounds like its a bit off from 29.97

rockfallfilms

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3986 on: November 06, 2013, 11:13:06 AM »
Is the shutter speed issue just on the latest build? I'm using one a couple of weeks old and the motion seems ok.

rockfallfilms

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3987 on: November 06, 2013, 12:51:00 PM »
Has anyone here tried out the After Effects CC detail preserving upscale on 50D footage? I'm only on CS6 so I can't try it.

lionelp

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3988 on: November 06, 2013, 02:35:07 PM »
What Andy is saying is, he's not willing to compromise quality. When you shoot in crop mode, the camera is reading out the entire feed - no line skipping- therefore you get much better quality and no moire and aliasing. Of course, the drawback is that framing is a bit more difficult and you must shoot with the widest angled lens you can get, something like a 10 or 20mm lens in order to have more of a "normal" lens type of frame.

I do agree with Andy when it comes to the quality benefits of shooting in crop mode. But having options is always good as well. Especially in situation where you have to use a zoom lens to get wide or close-up shots quickly and not have to worry too much about aliasing and moire.
Good point! Makes sense! :)
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lionelp

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3989 on: November 06, 2013, 02:46:45 PM »
Got it! I agree with you ( not that I think that I know so much...I appreciate all that you, 1%, Alex and all the others have done with the 50D and ML RAW). Awesome footage. I saw JulianH's post and video as I was reading through the posts. I love the footage from the 50D. It is somewhat different looking (has a slightly different footprint) than the oher Canon ML raw footage. And very film like IMO.
Of course and there is a choice of aspect ratios. Shooting anamorphic also seems to help a little with aliasing and moire. Julian H's shot some 50D anamorphic footage and posted it earlier in this thread https://vimeo.com/67023056
Canon 60D, 50D | Lenses: Nikkor : 18-55 , 3.5 | 50, 1.8 | 24, 2.8 | 28,2.8 | 35, 2.8 |Helios 58 | A few other Nikon manual zooms and prime lenses|
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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3990 on: November 06, 2013, 05:30:26 PM »
Quote
Is the shutter speed issue just on the latest build? I'm using one a couple of weeks old and the motion seems ok.

I think its been an un-noticed issue for a while, the motion will be ok but the numerical values aren't correct. The shutter is just blanking so its not a deal breaker but annoying when you want to know what's really 1/48, etc. Go by how it looks on the screen vs numbers.

teedidy

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3991 on: November 06, 2013, 09:00:06 PM »
Could be a placebo effect (or mentioned earlier)
When I update any setting in ML on my 50D, the first time I shoot in RAW my write speed hovers around 65MBs. However when I make a change and turn the camera on and off (or just the first time I turn the camera on) I get write speeds around 75MBs. Does anyone else experience anything similar?

dsManning

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3992 on: November 06, 2013, 10:01:53 PM »
Could be a placebo effect (or mentioned earlier)
When I update any setting in ML on my 50D, the first time I shoot in RAW my write speed hovers around 65MBs. However when I make a change and turn the camera on and off (or just the first time I turn the camera on) I get write speeds around 75MBs. Does anyone else experience anything similar?

Typical for cards to need to 'warm up'.  If you go to the Movie tab, down to Raw Video, it is now hidden under the advanced (on most recent build), you will find Warm Up Card.  You can select a mb size to write to the card at boot.

I usually don't bother.  I tend to get my settings right and shoot a 10-20sec test video, and that warms the card up for continuous shooting.

1%

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3993 on: November 06, 2013, 10:47:38 PM »
Quote
I get write speeds around 75MBs. Does anyone else experience anything similar?

Yea, the first time I shoot after turning off dialog timers its slowish. Instead of card warmup I shoot till I see 75-80 and then delete the raw file. After that its good until power off.

johansugarev

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3994 on: November 07, 2013, 04:09:24 AM »
I cant get why people think that BMPCC is better than 50d.
1. APS-C sensor is way too bigger than the Super 16 one.
2. you cant get that film look effect on BMPCC, users say that it shoots iPhone like video.
3. you can get crop factor similar to BMPCC on 50D in 2.475x crop mode.
4. you can get canon for 300-400$ when BMPCC costs 1000$. (300-400$ + 295$(VAF) = 595-695$ + you get pretty good camera for stills as well)
5. 50d can run ML software, that means you have tons of addons on your camera to make your work easier.
While I would buy a Canon over the BMPCC anytime, you are quite wrong about it's capabilities. It's made for micro 4/3 glass, the crop factor is zero and it can get quite the film look, the sensor has a dynamic range comparable with cameras worth 10x the price, so I have no idea which "users" you refer to.
That being said, a 50D setup would cost you less and as we all see, one can get stunning images from it.


1% - any math we can do to figure out what shutter speed we are using? Is the issue only with the latest build?

maxotics

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3995 on: November 07, 2013, 05:00:17 AM »
Yea, the first time I shoot after turning off dialog timers its slowish. Instead of card warmup I shoot till I see 75-80 and then delete the raw file. After that its good until power off.

Thanks for the tip 1%.  I'm going to try that next time!

1%

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3996 on: November 07, 2013, 05:31:20 AM »
It is a problem forever but before at least you got the value from the ML menu and could see when the ISO was being adjusted. Now with the new bars (~oct/1) it seems to be showing photo shutter and not displaying digital iso.

rockfallfilms

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3997 on: November 07, 2013, 10:43:01 AM »
While I would buy a Canon over the BMPCC anytime, you are quite wrong about it's capabilities. It's made for micro 4/3 glass, the crop factor is zero and it can get quite the film look, the sensor has a dynamic range comparable with cameras worth 10x the price, so I have no idea which "users" you refer to.
That being said, a 50D setup would cost you less and as we all see, one can get stunning images from it.



The mount on the BMPCC maybe be made for micro 4/3 glass, but the sensor is sized for Super16mm glass. There will be a crop factor of around 3 when comparing to full frame. The 50D has a 1.6 crop factor.

Therefore the BMPCC will require an investment in lenses to cover the wide end and also if you are wanting shallow DOF that has a similar look to the 50D then you will need fast lenses.

They are different cameras, personally I see the 50D as a cinema type camera and the BMPCC as more of a documentary camera. That extra DR will come in useful when you are in a situation that you can't light properly.


PressureFM

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3998 on: November 07, 2013, 11:52:08 AM »

The mount on the BMPCC maybe be made for micro 4/3 glass, but the sensor is sized for Super16mm glass. There will be a crop factor of around 3 when comparing to full frame. The 50D has a 1.6 crop factor.

Therefore the BMPCC will require an investment in lenses to cover the wide end and also if you are wanting shallow DOF that has a similar look to the 50D then you will need fast lenses.

They are different cameras, personally I see the 50D as a cinema type camera and the BMPCC as more of a documentary camera. That extra DR will come in useful when you are in a situation that you can't light properly.

I'm surprised people aren't seeing the Metabones Speed Booster with the BMCC as a great alternative, making the BMCC nearly Super 35 and gaining 1 full stop brighter footage. After all, whether you like it or not, you are simply not getting 1080p out of the 50D.


lomka

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Re: 50D and 40D Raw video
« Reply #3999 on: November 07, 2013, 12:04:55 PM »
here you can see the crop factor of the BMPCC compared to the DSLR cameras