50D Raw video

Started by Andy600, May 22, 2013, 03:40:57 PM

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riccardocovino

Quote from: ultramaze on July 26, 2013, 08:04:47 AM
Here is a piece I did as part of the Canon "Long Live Imagination" contest. Shot it all on the Canon 50d in raw. A few1:1 shots in the field at the end..other than that..all at 1580 or whatever because my composition was important and I needed to see what I was recording... Its a shame you cant currently view what is actually being recorded at 1:1 because the image quality is dramatically better. Wanted to test out the lowlight ability of this bad boy and see how it would play in a more professional setting. Hope to use it more soon.

https://www.longliveimagination.com/gallery/video/671
https://vimeo.com/70853696

workflow

ML Raw> RAWMagic> Resolve [converted to BMD Log]> ProRes 4444> Filmconvert> FCPX> Vimeo :)


great shots, but noise is at an insane level!
I can see it even in daylight shots :(
which were the settings of the camera?
BMCC - 50D - D5200 - Nex5N

Andy600

Quote from: riccardocovino on July 26, 2013, 10:51:46 AM
...noise is at an insane level!
I can see it even in daylight shots :(
which were the settings of the camera?

If you're getting noise in daylight shots you're either seriously underexposing or your ISO is set very high. Use the raw histogram and expose to the right.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

riccardocovino

Quote from: Andy600 on July 26, 2013, 12:06:34 PM
If you're getting noise in daylight shots you're either seriously underexposing or your ISO is set very high. Use the raw histogram and expose to the right.

I'm talking about HIS video (ultramaze's)

https://vimeo.com/70853696

did you see it? noise is worse than with my 200$ mobile..

I don't think he put an ND filter un daylight so strong to raise ISO to 6400 or whatever, it would be quite absurd!
I'm even wondering if such noise is added in post.
indoor shots are clearly in low light condition but there the noise is totally unacceptable, way beyond lowest expectations.
That's why I asked about his camera settings, and his Davicni workflow would be interesting too.
BMCC - 50D - D5200 - Nex5N

Andy600

Sorry Riccardo, I misunderstood what you wrote previously.

Yes, I agree. The video is very dark and noisy. Maybe it was an intentional look and noise was added in post? but it still looks very underexposed to me. It could also be down to an uncalibrated monitor when grading.
Colorist working with Davinci Resolve, Baselight, Nuke, After Effects & Premier Pro. Occasional Sunday afternoon DOP. Developer of Cinelog-C Colorspace Management and LUTs - www.cinelogdcp.com

DJG

Quote from: rommex on July 22, 2013, 10:20:52 AM
Nice video.

Try using Raw2CDNG. It does work with files longer than 4GB.

You first rename split files (so that they have extensions .001, .002, etc) and then use the free program File Splitter & Joiner to join them.

Then you feed the resulting files to Raw2CDNG -- it should work. It worked for me.

UPDATED: also I had been a fan of 28 May Build for long since it was stable and firm as a rock. Now I use Andy's new build and I would encourage you to try it -- you'll like it as well -- PINK frames are a history :) :

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5586.msg59779#msg59779


Hey Rommex, are you using Raw2CDNG on a PC? It doesn't seem to be working for me, ver.1.2.1. I joined a split file and now have 4.95GB file I load into RAW2CDNG, but I get an error "RAW2CDNG has stopped working" every time. RAW2CDNG also is showing under Resolution: 4385 and FPS: 555512.80. Basically weird numbers.

Do you or anyone else know of any other conversion methods on a PC that can handle files over 4GB?

*Also, how do you enable RAW recording on the above build you linked me to? Thanks :)

jgerstel



Filmed 1920 x 818, 64gb komputerbay, duration looks continuous & stable. However format CF card so now & then to keep card fast.
Camera: Canon 50D
Caonon 50mm lens
ML build 11th July 2013

goldenchild9to5

Quote from: dhallowell19 on July 26, 2013, 04:51:54 AM
Would you mind outlining your LR5 workflow - or pointing me to a place where that might already be discussed?

Do you have LR5?  If you do here is one of the videos that I used to get familiar with LR interface and the way it catalog files, it uses ACR same as photoshop, and after effects but just cosmetic changes  8)https://vimeo.com/70637970  Will be posting a video today showcasing what I've done using LightRooms workflow.  If you have any other question regarding LR5 let me know.. Hope that helps cheers. 

GOD Bless

BT



The Canyon - Shot during a two hour trip to the canyon

For this video, I shot with a faster CF Card (100 MBS) that gave me 1344 X 1008 resolution at 24 FPS in 4:3 mode without skipping frames. I could shoot for at least 6 minutes (I didn't try shooting longer). I did my color correction with Adobe Photoshop and converted to 2688 X 1008 in Compressor.

Anyone else shooting anamorphic on the 50D in 4:3? Can anyone shoot higher resolution than 1344 X 1008? Thank you.

pinger007

Shot RAW on the 5DM3 and 50D using the Magic Lantern Hack. The 5DM3 was shot at 1920x1038 (1.85). The 50D was shot at 1920x1038 resolution in cropped mode to match the 5D. A pair of 64GB 1000X KomputerBay CF cards were used for the shoot. The ratio of 5D/50D is approximately 60/40.  Can you tell which shots are which?

https://vimeo.com/71108800

The RAW files were converted to dng sequences with Rawanizer ver 0.5.5. DNxHD proxies were used to edit the footage in Adobe Premiere CC. Once edited, the sequence was brought into Adobe After Effects CC via Dynamic Link and the proxies were replaced with the RAW footage. First light color correction was done in ACR, and additional corrections were performed in AE. All compositing was performed within AE.  Gorilla Grain was added to the final output.

all you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you

rommex

Quote from: DJG on July 26, 2013, 01:52:12 PM

Hey Rommex, are you using Raw2CDNG on a PC? It doesn't seem to be working for me, ver.1.2.1. I joined a split file and now have 4.95GB file I load into RAW2CDNG, but I get an error "RAW2CDNG has stopped working" every time. RAW2CDNG also is showing under Resolution: 4385 and FPS: 555512.80. Basically weird numbers.

Do you or anyone else know of any other conversion methods on a PC that can handle files over 4GB?

*Also, how do you enable RAW recording on the above build you linked me to? Thanks :)

Hello there,

Yes I use Raw2CDNG, I have version 1.1.6 on my PC. It does not join the split files, as someone here suggested some time ago -- I assume it's a newer version that does. So first I join them manually by a File Splitter & Joiner, and then submit it to Raw2CDNG. Today I did that 3 times. One resulted sequence was failed -- full of pink rubbish. I just repeated the joining and converting -- it worked fine this time.

RAW mode: you turn on the RAW_REC module, then you enable RAW record in the menu. It's all done while LiveView is ON. I hope there are some detailed instructions at the top of this thread, the bloody manual that should be read, so to speak  8)

Supermac

Quote from: DJG on July 26, 2013, 01:52:12 PM

Hey Rommex, are you using Raw2CDNG on a PC? It doesn't seem to be working for me, ver.1.2.1. I joined a split file and now have 4.95GB file I load into RAW2CDNG, but I get an error "RAW2CDNG has stopped working" every time. RAW2CDNG also is showing under Resolution: 4385 and FPS: 555512.80. Basically weird numbers.

Do you or anyone else know of any other conversion methods on a PC that can handle files over 4GB?

*Also, how do you enable RAW recording on the above build you linked me to? Thanks :)

I've been using Rawanizer and it's been working fine automatically stitching spanned files.

pags

Quote from: jgerstel on July 26, 2013, 04:46:35 PM


Filmed 1920 x 818, 64gb komputerbay, duration looks continuous & stable. However format CF card so now & then to keep card fast.
Camera: Canon 50D
Caonon 50mm lens
ML build 11th July 2013

Does the 50D shoot 1920 x 818 in full sensor mode or do you have to use cropped mode to retain such high resolutions?

Supermac

Quote from: rommex on July 25, 2013, 03:50:25 PM
goldenchild, I take my words back and now have full agreement with your point. I tested ACR against DV Resolve specifically in terms of moire and aliasing -- ACR ROCKS!

UPDATE: a very noobish question: when importing the cDNG sequence to After Effects, is there a waу to see another than the first frame, and make adjustments against it? thnx

I'd be interested in this too, I guess it's because ACR is designed for stills? Only thing I can think of is to import individual tiff's and remember the settings. Bit of a pain though.

jhnkng

I've been working with an ACR workflow (because I don't have a computer that runs resolve) and the way I do it is

1 - Open the whole sequence in ACR
2 - Make whatever changes I need to get a super flat file
3 - Save images as either JPGs or TIFFs
4 - Open the saved jpg/tif image sequence in Quicktime 7 Pro
5 - Export form Quicktime 7 Pro to a Prores 422 HQ movie

You can use Lightroom instead of ACR (the raw processing engine is the same), and you can use something other than Quicktime 7 Pro to convert image sequences to video. In my early testing I was using Cineform Studio Premium to convert image sequences to Cineform RAW, but I decided against it because the OSX version is nowhere near as good as the Windows version (I'm mac based).

I find that RAW > ACR > JPG > QT7 > Prores422 is faster than importing the raw sequence into After Effects and rendering a Prores422 file, but it may not be for you. I have also found that exporting a 16bit TIFF instead of an 8bit JPG takes about the same time, so if you really want to preserve every little bit of information and you don't mind the huge amount of space it'll use up that could be a good workflow. Once I convert to prores I delete the exported jpgs.

Here's a test I shot a couple of weeks ago using this method:
https://vimeo.com/69413995

Gekko

Hey jhnkng, thanks for the description!
I come from the world of photography and i'm a bloody noob regarding film, so i've a couple of questions:


  • What exactly is the advantage of converting the sequence to Prores 422?
  • Which tools take a benefit of prores 422 instead of using a raw-sequence?
  • And what do you mean exactly with "get a super flat file"...do you mean flat in terms of flatten the color & contrast or flat in terms of file size?

Thanks for an answer,
Gekko

simulacro

Quote from: Supermac on July 26, 2013, 11:03:42 PM
I'd be interested in this too, I guess it's because ACR is designed for stills? Only thing I can think of is to import individual tiff's and remember the settings. Bit of a pain though.



You don't have to remember the settings: there is an options panel where you find the option to give the picture the settings applied to the last picture you worked with. (i suppose in english "former conversion")

jhnkng

Quote from: Gekko on July 27, 2013, 05:56:42 AM
Hey jhnkng, thanks for the description!
I come from the world of photography and i'm a bloody noob regarding film, so i've a couple of questions:


  • What exactly is the advantage of converting the sequence to Prores 422?
  • Which tools take a benefit of prores 422 instead of using a raw-sequence?
  • And what do you mean exactly with "get a super flat file"...do you mean flat in terms of flatten the color & contrast or flat in terms of file size?

Thanks for an answer,
Gekko

Hi Gekko, I'm a photographer too, and all this is new for me as well! Perhaps if there are things that I'm doing that's not quite right someone more knowledgeable could chime in?

From what I understand the basic Resolve workflow is to import raw sequence, generate proxy files (basically jpg previews in stills) that go into your editing program, and once its edited it you bring the edit metadata (the sequence of files, the in and out points etc) back into Resolve which will then let you grade and export the final high res video. Because I don't use Resolve, and because I don't need to do any serious grading, I figure having a high quality Prores file that I can edit and grade without having to do a round trip will be faster and easier.

So to do this I open the DNG files in ACR, set my white balance and exposure, lower the contrast, add shadow detail, pull down the highlights, and that generally gives me a flat, low contrast look. Once I get the prores files into Premiere I find I can use one of the preset Lumetri LUTs included in the latest version of Premiere and it gives me a nice looking file. And then it's just a matter of editing and grading for the mood, and I can do all that in Premiere using a combination of Colorista and the Lumetri presets. I'm slowing looking at Speedgrade and trying to get my head around that, but to be frank my interest is in directing and writing, so right now I'm all about learning just enough to produce good work, building my chops and moving onto bigger projects where I could use a proper editor and colourist, because each of those fields are artforms unto their own.

I hope that helps a little bit mate!

Gekko

Quote from: jhnkng on July 27, 2013, 12:27:00 PM
I hope that helps a little bit mate!

Much more than you might think!
Thanks alot for the details!
:)

jgerstel


Quote from: pags on July 26, 2013, 10:38:24 PM
Does the 50D shoot 1920 x 818 in full sensor mode or do you have to use cropped mode to retain such high resolutions?
Hi
This is filmed in crop mode, 50 mm lens. Full sensor goes only to 1584 width. However using a anamorphic lens works very well in full sensor mode. 1344 x 1058 works continuous.

jgerstel

Quote from: pinger007 on July 26, 2013, 07:57:21 PM
Shot RAW on the 5DM3 and 50D using the Magic Lantern Hack. The 5DM3 was shot at 1920x1038 (1.85). The 50D was shot at 1920x1038 resolution in cropped mode to match the 5D. A pair of 64GB 1000X KomputerBay CF cards were used for the shoot. The ratio of 5D/50D is approximately 60/40.  Can you tell which shots are which?

https://vimeo.com/71108800

The RAW files were converted to dng sequences with Rawanizer ver 0.5.5. DNxHD proxies were used to edit the footage in Adobe Premiere CC. Once edited, the sequence was brought into Adobe After Effects CC via Dynamic Link and the proxies were replaced with the RAW footage. First light color correction was done in ACR, and additional corrections were performed in AE. All compositing was performed within AE.  Gorilla Grain was added to the final output.
Very nice  8)

crash-film

Quote from: pinger007 on July 26, 2013, 07:57:21 PM
The RAW files were converted to dng sequences with Rawanizer ver 0.5.5. DNxHD proxies were used to edit the footage in Adobe Premiere CC. Once edited, the sequence was brought into Adobe After Effects CC via Dynamic Link and the proxies were replaced with the RAW footage. First light color correction was done in ACR, and additional corrections were performed in AE. All compositing was performed within AE.  Gorilla Grain was added to the final output.

this is exactly the workflow i´m using now too.
first i saved the proxies by importing the dng´s straight into premiere. but the ginger plug in only works for 30 days for free....
but i´m using then EXR files in after effects and set the dnxhd files as proxy files. this can help with slower computers. for me it is the same speed.

i wrote a step by step guide on using this method. but it is outdated because of the ginger plug in issue and the slow dng performance.

what i noticed is, albeit using 32 bit floating point EXR files it is still crucial to "develop" the dngs in ACR correctly. trying to tune the exposure with colorista sort of works, but comes not even close to the exposure control possible with ACR.

i use the EXR sequences, because they process roughly 400 to 600 percent faster (depending on filters, masks, layering....etc). reducing rendertime (for my last 4 minute clip) from nearly 18 h to 6 h....
and i can use the sequences in my favourite comp software: nuke. nuke is highly optimized for 32 bit EXRs.

and yes, working in raw is a real pain.

if you plan just to edit your footage and then grade it in AE. you can stick with the dng workflow. you replace the footage, grade, adjust....hit the render button and go to bed... you can even save rendertime by adding more than one output file format in AEs render queue per comp. ( image sequence + your proxy format )
AE compositions can be rendered in the media encoder offering a much broader output file format (AE does h264 but you can´t adjust the settings.... or i am just blind...)

if you plan to add a lot of compositing to your images, then the EXR workflow is your first choice. ( or tiffs, if you wish )

the RAW dng sequences can be zipped, reducing disk space by about 25%.

what are your strategies for archiving?

i plan to save the uncut clips as dnxhd 10bit
and one consolidated AE project with only the used dngs, to reduce data amount and then zipping it in one archive file.

ah yes and the above mentioned "filmconverter" is a AE plug in, that adds not only film stock specific color tone and exposure response, but also the corresponding grain. within it you can choose different film sizes ( from 8 mm to 35 mm full frame ). this setting influences the grain size dramatically. never go under super 16 mm.

you don´t really need such filters. the grain from the 50d files is very filmic and the special film stock looks can be achieved by simple color correction and a little bit channel blurring and maybe a glow.....

rockfallfilms

Quote from: rommex on July 25, 2013, 03:50:25 PM
goldenchild, I take my words back and now have full agreement with your point. I tested ACR against DV Resolve specifically in terms of moire and aliasing -- ACR ROCKS!

UPDATE: a very noobish question: when importing the cDNG sequence to After Effects, is there a waу to see another than the first frame, and make adjustments against it? thnx

This is how I do it:

- In AE project window right click the dng and choose 'Reveal in Bridge'
- In Bridge, select all thumbnails then choose File/open in camera raw
- Make changes to your favourite frame then click synchronise
- Click Done
- Back in AE right click on the dng in the project window and choose 'reload footage'

Your changes will now be viewable in AE.

If you have a lot of clips which are going to need similar corrections then you could save a preset when in adobe bridge/camera raw then just load that preset into AE.

There might be an easier way but I haven't found it yet.


Daen The Scamp

Hows it going guys, first time poster!!!!1!1

But all stupidity aside I would like to take the chance to thank everyone for their tireless contributions towards this effort. It is needless to say that the RAW capabilities and simply the ability to record h.264 compressed video on the 50D has opened doors for budding Videographers Northwest wide and abroad. Doors that certainly not even Black Magic Cinema cameras could open within this price range.

So all the lovey dovey stuff aside I wish the contributors and founders of ML Firmware a bright future hopefully exempt of Canon intervention.

So, lets get to bidness.

Before I go into depth about my findings and questions I will just share my current set-up as to avoid any possible confusion.

Unified ML Build: Magic Lantern v2.3.
Secondary Build: Tragic Lantern Andy600 Build July,23,2013

CF Card: Lexar Professional UDMA7 32GB 1000x
For those interested I have benched this card both in-camera as well as on a USB3.0 CF card reader and have an average median of 82mb/s allowing continuous recording of all full sensor aspect ratios/resolutions.

To auto-boot ML I used the latest build of EOSCard.

So for the past 2 days or so I have been migrating, optimizing, and experimenting with the new options available within Tragic Lantern. Most the standard stuff I am already accustomed to as I have been using the unified builds for my 600D for some time now. So today I got the chance to go out and record some test footage and kind of perform a "mock" shoot to see if I could still perform under a professional level using this build, it's UI, and operational effectiveness.

So from the day I spent with it I have compiled a few absolute pointers for those wishing to use this camera and firmware in a professional setting, as well as a few questions and inquiries.

These are a few little tips I have compiled that I strongly recommend are followed for a streamlined shoot and archive scenario:

1. At minimum I recommend having one 64GB 1000x CF card from a reputable producer such as Lexar or Hoodman, However for a few less dollars you can always try the Komputerbay 1000x "Slot Machine" CF Cards. But if you plan on shooting anything more than 8-12 minutes long your left with only 2 options, either have a laptop on-sight for offloading one card whilst you shoot on another or purchase 128GB 1000x CF cards from the dealers I stated before; as 128GB komputerbay cards have been known to falter in sufficient write speeds. Always remember to make a secondary backup of your files on-sight for paid work!

2. This brings me to my second point, it is highly preferable to have USB3.0 ports as well as a 3.0 CF card reader(s) on-sight for file transferring; especially if you only have one card to work with. To put this into perspective on a USB2.0 based system and generic USB2.0 CF card reader a 32GB card brimmed with RAW files will average a transfer rate of 13-19mb/s meaning a nearly 30 minute transfer time. Definitely not professional when you have actors and other staff waiting around for a green bar to finish it sluggish race to the end of the screen.

3. I am not sure if this is entirely isolated to me or maybe its just common and I have not picked up on it yet but the 50D when recording RAW video especially eats through batteries like there is no tomorrow. I am averaging  roughly 10-14 minutes of battery life even when putting all of the energy saving tactics to use. Maybe the previous owner of this camera did not fully charge and discharge his battery? Or maybe the camera just does that. Feel free to correct me if I have made a mistake but otherwise you can never have enough batteries for this camera for those long 3-4 hour shoots.

4. Also, just be wary of how many modules you have running during the recording phase. As I have found that certain modules more than others can severely bog the CPU down causing the LV cycles to be slower as well as slow you cumulative writing speeds preventing certain resolutions from being captured that your card normally could write continuous.

Now for the questions,

One problem I ran into today repeatedly was the ability to ficus accurately manually using LV, Focus Peaking, and the Zoom Box for assisting focus. This was even more the case when I converted the raw files on my computer only to find that half of my shots were blatantly out of focus. This coupled with the fact that the 50D LCD screen does not swivel and even on maximum brightness still gets easily drowned out by direct sunlight. So naturally I tried using the LV AF but to zero response from the camera. Has anyone here had any experience with this issue? And if so have you been able to develop a operational fix for getting the AF operational?

And as a side note I found that the focus peaking module was overall the most effective tool for visually confirming focus. However it is VERY taxing on the camera even in low-res sampling mode and requires to be manually shut off every-time I begin shooting consuming valuable time in the process. If there is any chance the option to hide or essentially temporarily disable this module whilst recording could be added it would be incredibly useful. Unless there already exists some method...

And finally I know AC/DC converters exist for the 50D but has anyone seen a corded external battery pack? Essentially they are of the same construction as the corded AC/DC converters however instead of using a car-jack or 120 plug it is just a large battery cell obviously much larger than the standard pack. I wish I could give a better description but honestly I have been awake for 2 days straight and this is as cohesive as it gets.

Thanks for any and all responses,
-Daen


v1rt


dsManning

Quote from: Daen The Scamp on July 27, 2013, 03:42:58 PM
Now for the questions,

One problem I ran into today repeatedly was the ability to ficus accurately manually using LV, Focus Peaking, and the Zoom Box for assisting focus. This was even more the case when I converted the raw files on my computer only to find that half of my shots were blatantly out of focus. This coupled with the fact that the 50D LCD screen does not swivel and even on maximum brightness still gets easily drowned out by direct sunlight. So naturally I tried using the LV AF but to zero response from the camera. Has anyone here had any experience with this issue? And if so have you been able to develop a operational fix for getting the AF operational?

And as a side note I found that the focus peaking module was overall the most effective tool for visually confirming focus. However it is VERY taxing on the camera even in low-res sampling mode and requires to be manually shut off every-time I begin shooting consuming valuable time in the process. If there is any chance the option to hide or essentially temporarily disable this module whilst recording could be added it would be incredibly useful. Unless there already exists some method...

Thanks for any and all responses,
-Daen

I have not used AF since I installed ML. 

For strong light, get a LCD Viewfinder. Most have a bit of magnification, which is nice.

Focus peaking is amazing, but I too disable when I shoot.  To save a few valuable seconds while shooting, set up LV Display Presets. Quickly toggle LV overlays just by pressing INFO.  I have one set up with No Overlays (recording 1080), one with just RAW Histogram (full frame shooting), and one with all my desired overlays (for setting up my shot).
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=1729.0

Also, turn on Cartoon Mode 1 under Creative Effects in the Movie tab to sharpen edges on display, which are not saved to RAW Video file.  When you have Focus Peaking off while recording, this serves as a slight improvement over No Overlays.

Edit Also, what lens are you using that is giving you so much trouble focusing manually?