Author Topic: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread  (Read 925545 times)

coolerinc

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1100 on: October 14, 2013, 10:14:51 AM »
Hello guys!
Tested SanDisk 32Gb eXtreme Pro 45Mbps
Lenses: Vivitar 24mm f/2.0 for Nikon, Helios 44-2 58mm /f2.0, Jupiter-37A 135mm f/3.5
Aspect ratio 2.35:1
Resolution 1280x544 ~86 frames, 1600x680 ~64 frames
Ginger HDR was used for working with RAW in Ae and Pr

Just wonder why is there flickering white lines? is it bad anti-aliasing?
And what do you think about Color Grading?

ItsMeLenny

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1101 on: October 14, 2013, 12:37:01 PM »
Tested SanDisk 32Gb eXtreme Pro 45Mbps

45Mbps won't matter as the 550D caps at 21Mbps

I couldn't see the flickering white lines. But a discussion on that should probably be started in the Videos section.
Same with colour grading, looked alright (as in good), not my style to be honest so I can't offer any constructive criticism.
(Maybe give it a bit more contrast, use your video scopes to help out).
In fact, maybe the contrast was fine in most parts, some parts were just over exposed, particularly the slug.

3pointedit

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1102 on: October 14, 2013, 12:44:37 PM »
While I love the colour depth and lack of compression artifacts I find to many pink frames. I don't see the point in 550d RAW sadly. It's back to h264 for me.
550D on ML-roids

coolerinc

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1103 on: October 14, 2013, 12:59:10 PM »
Thx guys!
In comparison to h.264 - raw a little bit sharper with lot of detail, but for 550d it's hard to shoot in raw. Thinking about 6d

FailedRenegade

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1104 on: October 14, 2013, 04:48:30 PM »
Resolution 1280x544 ~86 frames, 1600x680 ~64 frames

I have the exact same card that you tested and I'm getting ~180 frames @ 1280x544. Using a nightly build from 29th Sept (haven't bothered to update it since)

coolerinc

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1105 on: October 14, 2013, 06:38:15 PM »
I have the exact same card that you tested and I'm getting ~180 frames @ 1280x544. Using a nightly build from 29th Sept (haven't bothered to update it since)
my mistake, ~165-170 frames at 1280x544
anyway we need more ^_^

prabhath.mp

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1106 on: October 14, 2013, 10:12:37 PM »
Hi All,

Good day to all of you.

I was wondering if anyone has tried to project video (both default video and RAW) on to a large screen?

What's the probability of it retaining details, provided the action was directed and captured in a controlled environment?

Also, if one was to use combination of native video and RAW, would that cause any visible difference in quality?

I was thinking of capturing in 16:9 aspect (both native and RAW) since the native video is captured in 16:9 ratio.

Thanks for your suggestion/advice in this regard.

Cheers,
Prabhath MP
Knowledge enhances by sharing!
Every moment is a new learning experience!!
I use:-Camera: Canon 550D/T2i  Lens: Canon 50mm 1.8 II ; Canon kit (18-55 non IS) ; 55-250 EFS IS ; Macro converter tubes with AF.

coolerinc

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1107 on: October 15, 2013, 08:42:55 AM »
Here's an example of RAW lying over h.264
as you may see RAW is more detailed and sharper. Just compare the car numbers :)

prabhath.mp

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1108 on: October 15, 2013, 11:04:15 AM »
Hi Coolerinc,

Thank you for providing the details below :)

Here's an example of RAW lying over h.264
as you may see RAW is more detailed and sharper. Just compare the car numbers :)


I still have a question, however:-

According to my understanding 550D cannot record RAW frames in 1920 X 1080 resolution.

So, even if we were to compare 1080 H.264 and the RAW frame, we will have to probably crop the H.264 video frame to match the RAW (or we may have to upscale the RAW frame to match 1080).

Could you please let me know how was the result achieved in your test, below? :)

If the RAW frame recorded in lower resolution would give such amazing results when scaled to 1920 X 1080 then recording in RAW would certainly be awesome :)

Cheers,
Prabhath MP
Knowledge enhances by sharing!
Every moment is a new learning experience!!
I use:-Camera: Canon 550D/T2i  Lens: Canon 50mm 1.8 II ; Canon kit (18-55 non IS) ; 55-250 EFS IS ; Macro converter tubes with AF.

ItsMeLenny

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1109 on: October 15, 2013, 11:56:58 AM »
According to my understanding 550D cannot record RAW frames in 1920 X 1080 resolution.

So, even if we were to compare 1080 H.264 and the RAW frame, we will have to probably crop the H.264 video frame to match the RAW (or we may have to upscale the RAW frame to match 1080).

Could you please let me know how was the result achieved in your test, below? :)

If the RAW frame recorded in lower resolution would give such amazing results when scaled to 1920 X 1080 then recording in RAW would certainly be awesome :)

You've got it a bit wrong.

The max res on 550D is 1728x1156, but this is the whole sensor. So it would covers the same area as the 1920 resolution.

The 1920x1080 res is scaled up to that res in camera, it records at a smaller res and stretches it, that's why 1920 looks terrible.

So no crop is needed to get the same image, unless you shoot at a smaller raw res.

coolerinc

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1110 on: October 15, 2013, 12:31:54 PM »
If the RAW frame recorded in lower resolution would give such amazing results when scaled to 1920 X 1080 then recording in RAW would certainly be awesome :)
As I noticed 1280x544 upscaled to 1920x1080 is almost the same with quality but with raw you get about 12 stops for grading.
In the picture above I shoot at 1600 with upscaling 112% to match 1920x1080

prabhath.mp

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1111 on: October 15, 2013, 01:32:44 PM »
Hi All,

Thank you so much for your reply.

I use a Sandisk 32GB; 20MBps; Class 10 Memory card and whenever I tried to capture RAW in higher resolutions, it stops recording after few seconds.

You've got it a bit wrong.

The max res on 550D is 1728x1156, but this is the whole sensor. So it would covers the same area as the 1920 resolution.

The 1920x1080 res is scaled up to that res in camera, it records at a smaller res and stretches it, that's why 1920 looks terrible.

So no crop is needed to get the same image, unless you shoot at a smaller raw res.

Has anyone tried to capture RAW frames in 550D full capacity? How successful has it been. I am not quite sure if my card supports such huge resolution.

Also, could anyone suggest an optimum resolution where I can get continuous record (for at least 3 to 4 minutes).

Which nightly build has been more successful on delivering best results for RAW so far? I downloaded the one that was created on 09-Oct-2013.

Thanks so much for your help on this :)

Cheers,
Prabhath MP
Knowledge enhances by sharing!
Every moment is a new learning experience!!
I use:-Camera: Canon 550D/T2i  Lens: Canon 50mm 1.8 II ; Canon kit (18-55 non IS) ; 55-250 EFS IS ; Macro converter tubes with AF.

coolerinc

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1112 on: October 15, 2013, 02:03:53 PM »
Has anyone tried to capture RAW frames in 550D full capacity? How successful has it been. I am not quite sure if my card supports such huge resolution.

Also, could anyone suggest an optimum resolution where I can get continuous record (for at least 3 to 4 minutes).

Which nightly build has been more successful on delivering best results for RAW so far? I downloaded the one that was created on 09-Oct-2013.

At 1728 you'll be able to capture about 30 frames
For continuous record 960x540 is optimum
I'm using 25-Aug-2013 build
For more info check this thread

prabhath.mp

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1113 on: October 15, 2013, 03:00:49 PM »
Hi Coolerinc,

Thank you so much for your reply buddy :)

At 1728 you'll be able to capture about 30 frames
For continuous record 960x540 is optimum
I'm using 25-Aug-2013 build
For more info check this thread

Will certainly try as suggested, probably during this weekend and will get back with an update on my results.

Also, have you tried to project video on to a large screen (like in movie theatres). On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being least and 10 being best) how would you rate about quality of RAW video processed after grading and projected on Large Screen?

I know the quality will not be anywhere close to the large sensor cameras, however, still I'm hoping/assuming that the quality will be considerably good (Please correct me if I am wrong).

Thanks so much once again.

Cheers,
Prabhath MP
Knowledge enhances by sharing!
Every moment is a new learning experience!!
I use:-Camera: Canon 550D/T2i  Lens: Canon 50mm 1.8 II ; Canon kit (18-55 non IS) ; 55-250 EFS IS ; Macro converter tubes with AF.

coolerinc

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1114 on: October 15, 2013, 03:43:05 PM »
Also, have you tried to project video on to a large screen (like in movie theatres). On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being least and 10 being best) how would you rate about quality of RAW video processed after grading and projected on Large Screen?

I know the quality will not be anywhere close to the large sensor cameras, however, still I'm hoping/assuming that the quality will be considerably good (Please correct me if I am wrong).

Didn't try to project on to the theater screen but I think the quality of RAW 1600x680 2.35:1 will be fine. BTW people in the theater don't sit too close to the screen :)

prabhath.mp

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1115 on: October 15, 2013, 04:00:44 PM »
Didn't try to project on to the theater screen but I think the quality of RAW 1600x680 2.35:1 will be fine. BTW people in the theater don't sit too close to the screen :)

Certainly agree with your point here :)

Was just curious to know if anyone had tried to project that on to a large screen.

I was thinking of recording in 960 X 540 (16:9 aspect ratio); Combine them with few H.264 shots (where lighting is controlled); Crop them to 2.35:1; I was just wondering how it would appear on large screen :-\

Your posts were very helpful, however :)

Will try 1600 X 680 (2.35:1 Cinema aspect), but not sure if my card is capable to handling such resolution.

Cheers,
Prabhath MP
Knowledge enhances by sharing!
Every moment is a new learning experience!!
I use:-Camera: Canon 550D/T2i  Lens: Canon 50mm 1.8 II ; Canon kit (18-55 non IS) ; 55-250 EFS IS ; Macro converter tubes with AF.

NattyNick

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1116 on: October 15, 2013, 05:20:42 PM »
Hey guys,

Long time lurker, I've been reluctant to try shooting Raw as I produce documentaries, so measuring the length of time I can film in frames didn't excite me very much. 12 minutes isn't even long enough, but it's the right amount of time to be able to control when to stop and start again (aim for a question as that's not a necessary part of the film)

Anyway I decided to try Raw with my 550D the other day, trying the continuous 960x540, 16:9. I was half impressed, but the work flow seemed to slow everything down so much it, the payoff didn't seem worth it. Granted, if I shot in a higher resolution I might be thinking differently, but I'm not sure if the pros are worth the sacrifice in the recording time, cropping, resolution and post workflow. I mean, if you light a scene properly and know the limits of the camera and how to use it, then h.264 isn't that bad.

I'd love to be proven wrong though, maybe my settings and workflow are the issue?

Record at 960x540 16:9
Copy all media to desktop and use RAW2DNG to convert each shot (this step took ages since it also creates the ProRes files... but they're useful so I wouldn't want to do the process without them)
GingerHDR into AE to grade and make any other adjustments and make a rough cut, then InstantHD to 1080p
Import AE sequence into Premiere to make last minute changes and add some sound
Export at 1080p for Youtube

RESULT:


prabhath.mp

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1117 on: October 15, 2013, 06:45:09 PM »


RESULT:





Hi NattyNick,

The video seemed to be good to me. Any idea if there will be any difference if we export images as .TIF format?

I use Blender for grading and post-production of video and unfortunately Blender does not support .DNG file format :(

Cheers,
Prabhath MP
Knowledge enhances by sharing!
Every moment is a new learning experience!!
I use:-Camera: Canon 550D/T2i  Lens: Canon 50mm 1.8 II ; Canon kit (18-55 non IS) ; 55-250 EFS IS ; Macro converter tubes with AF.

Yoda

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1118 on: October 15, 2013, 10:44:33 PM »
Good question.  I used a workflow and exported to both JPG and .TIFF.  HUGE DIFFERENCE.  You can see it in the overal picture quality, really shows up in lines.  But, it alos depends on what you are going for.  If you arent shooting art, or something that requires clean/soft presentation, you can get away with JPG even at 80% quality (20% compression).

As for the color...again, using TIFF just makes everything look better, especially in low light shots.

At this point, shooting RAW on 550D is easy.  The key is obviuosly a really fast SDHC or SDXC card, and a post production setup that allows a streamlined workflow.  The only real decision to make is the frame size (1280x544, 960x540, etc).  One doesn't need continuous FPS to get good shots.  24fps at 10 seconds is 240 frames recorded.  More than enough to do get good shots, and move from subject to subject, shot to shot, etc.

In terms of "post processing", speed can be obtained by switching to an SSD drive, getting more RAM, and having minimum 2 procs, preferably 4 proc setup.

Cheers.

Yoda


BrotherD

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1119 on: October 16, 2013, 01:44:52 AM »
Hey guys,

Long time lurker, I've been reluctant to try shooting Raw as I produce documentaries, so measuring the length of time I can film in frames didn't excite me very much. 12 minutes isn't even long enough, but it's the right amount of time to be able to control when to stop and start again (aim for a question as that's not a necessary part of the film)

Anyway I decided to try Raw with my 550D the other day, trying the continuous 960x540, 16:9. I was half impressed, but the work flow seemed to slow everything down so much it, the payoff didn't seem worth it. Granted, if I shot in a higher resolution I might be thinking differently, but I'm not sure if the pros are worth the sacrifice in the recording time, cropping, resolution and post workflow. I mean, if you light a scene properly and know the limits of the camera and how to use it, then h.264 isn't that bad.

I'd love to be proven wrong though, maybe my settings and workflow are the issue?

Record at 960x540 16:9
Copy all media to desktop and use RAW2DNG to convert each shot (this step took ages since it also creates the ProRes files... but they're useful so I wouldn't want to do the process without them)
GingerHDR into AE to grade and make any other adjustments and make a rough cut, then InstantHD to 1080p
Import AE sequence into Premiere to make last minute changes and add some sound
Export at 1080p for Youtube

RESULT:

Raw files - raw2cdng - dng - Davinci Resolve 10 - proxies - edit - balance, color correct - relink - export.   

prabhath.mp

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1120 on: October 16, 2013, 07:47:19 AM »
Good question.  I used a workflow and exported to both JPG and .TIFF.  HUGE DIFFERENCE.  You can see it in the overal picture quality, really shows up in lines.  But, it alos depends on what you are going for.  If you arent shooting art, or something that requires clean/soft presentation, you can get away with JPG even at 80% quality (20% compression).

As for the color...again, using TIFF just makes everything look better, especially in low light shots.

At this point, shooting RAW on 550D is easy.  The key is obviuosly a really fast SDHC or SDXC card, and a post production setup that allows a streamlined workflow.  The only real decision to make is the frame size (1280x544, 960x540, etc).  One doesn't need continuous FPS to get good shots.  24fps at 10 seconds is 240 frames recorded.  More than enough to do get good shots, and move from subject to subject, shot to shot, etc.

In terms of "post processing", speed can be obtained by switching to an SSD drive, getting more RAM, and having minimum 2 procs, preferably 4 proc setup.

Cheers.

Yoda



Hi Yoda,

Thanks so much for the suggestion :-)

Fortunately Blender supports .TIF files.

I'll then assume that .DNG and .TIF have more or less same amount of detail except .DNG will have a little more information because it's based on Adobe DNG structure whereas TIF is more commonly used in general where access to premium applications provided by Adobe and others are either very less or no access at all :-)

Thanks once again.

Cheers,
Prabhath MP 
Knowledge enhances by sharing!
Every moment is a new learning experience!!
I use:-Camera: Canon 550D/T2i  Lens: Canon 50mm 1.8 II ; Canon kit (18-55 non IS) ; 55-250 EFS IS ; Macro converter tubes with AF.

coolerinc

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1121 on: October 16, 2013, 08:58:30 AM »
I use Blender for grading and post-production of video and unfortunately Blender does not support .DNG file format :(
Why don't you work with DPX? Blender support it and I took a huge time with it.
The workflow is a little bit different:
1. Movie Clip Editor -> Open your sequence (DPX)
2. Video Sequence Editor -> Shift+A -> Clip -> Add you Clip

Cheers ^_^

prabhath.mp

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1122 on: October 16, 2013, 11:07:54 AM »
Why don't you work with DPX? Blender support it and I took a huge time with it.
The workflow is a little bit different:
1. Movie Clip Editor -> Open your sequence (DPX)
2. Video Sequence Editor -> Shift+A -> Clip -> Add you Clip

Cheers ^_^

Hi Coolerinc :)

Thank you for the suggestion.

Could you please provide more information about your workflow for DPX files?

I only have option to convert RAW to either .DNG or .TIF

Which application would help in conversion of batch files from RAW to DPX?

Also, is that application available for Ubuntu 13.04?
 
Until now, I have been using .TIF format to import files into Blender for grading.
(Blender --> Video Editor --> Shift + A --> Image --> Identify the folder containing .TIF files --> A (to select all) --> Open)

Please let me know if I am missing any step :)

Thanks so much.

Cheers,
Prabhath MP
Knowledge enhances by sharing!
Every moment is a new learning experience!!
I use:-Camera: Canon 550D/T2i  Lens: Canon 50mm 1.8 II ; Canon kit (18-55 non IS) ; 55-250 EFS IS ; Macro converter tubes with AF.

mine85

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1123 on: October 16, 2013, 11:13:23 AM »
At 0:15 the car is hiccupping ! What's the problem ? It's not my player...

Yes, the source files also seem to be displaying the same!  :o I think this is the effect rewind was talking about  below.

@dafassi, this stroboscopic effect you are talking about is inavoidable in 24fps shooting. It is always there in all the movies. But! You will almost never see the scene like yours in movies. It is always there is an Object in the scene which stays in frame and picks all your attention. All the pans DP doing are done with some purpose. There are no just pans in movies. It's always a following the object in foreground. And the foreground is the place, where the action happens.
5d Mark III, 550d, EF 50mm f/1.8

coolerinc

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Re: 550D/T2i raw video recording port official thread
« Reply #1124 on: October 16, 2013, 11:38:25 AM »
I only have option to convert RAW to either .DNG or .TIF

Which application would help in conversion of batch files from RAW to DPX?

Also, is that application available for Ubuntu 13.04?
 
Until now, I have been using .TIF format to import files into Blender for grading.
(Blender --> Video Editor --> Shift + A --> Image --> Identify the folder containing .TIF files --> A (to select all) --> Open)

Please let me know if I am missing any step :)

Hi prabhath.mp,
I'm using After Effects to convert any format into DPX
The benefits of using DPX or Tiff you can read here, I am not a supporter of anything.
Your workflow is OK
Cannot say what converter is good for Linux. Perhaps using Tiff is the only way for this moment