Author Topic: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit  (Read 329835 times)

bnvm

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1175 on: August 19, 2013, 05:04:45 PM »
@Scipione205 up-scaling 1880 to 1920 at %2 increase will work just fine, that is exactly what the camera does when shooting normal h.264 video. The 1880 pixel limit is not a limit of RAW shooting it is a limit with shooting video on the mkII(unless 5X crop which is not even an option for normal video). So until raw video all video out of the mkII was up-scaled to 1920. I am willing to bet that you cannot even tell the difference between 1880 and 1880 up-scaled to 1920, in terms of quality.

Scipione205

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1176 on: August 19, 2013, 05:55:54 PM »
@guentergunter

Thank you very much. Now it's perfectly clear. Maybe is because of the 1880 buffer and upscaling (then in-camera H264) that MkII has badder moiré than MkIII?

@guentergunter @bnvm

Thank you very much, you people are wonderful.

guentergunter

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1177 on: August 19, 2013, 09:17:34 PM »
 
@guentergunter
Maybe is because of the 1880 buffer and upscaling (then in-camera H264) that MkII has badder moiré than MkIII?
No. Aliasing (and thus moiré) always any only occurs, when you skip lines.

In other words: Your 5D2 has 5616 columns and 3744 rows (→ 5616 x 3744 = 21026304 pixels total) of arranged silicon semiconductors which by light induce an electric voltage that is then interpreted by some mathematical logic behind to produce an image.

The very problem is, that semiconductors can only detect the intensity of light, but not it's color.
The solution: A Bayer filter!
That means: Every one of those 21026304 pixels, your 5D2 sensor has, consists of four silicon semiconductors.

Let's now imagine a white item in from of a dark background that moves quite slowly in front of your camera. It will then first be detected by e.g. a semiconductor with a green filter, then one with a blue filter and so on. So, it always happens, that an item for a short period of time (and sadly often enough the very moment you shot) only covers half of the arranged four semiconductors which form a pixel.
So, only the green or blue or red semiconductor induces voltage and thus the mathematical logic behind means it's a green or blue or red item.
When the item moves ahead, it will cover more and more pixels completely, but at it's border, it will always just cover parts of pixels, as well.
The logical misinterpretation resulting in those wrong colored pixels at the edge of objects is what is called aliasing.
Moiré is an addition: It means that those pixels form patterns like e.g. colored streaks.


To prevent aliasing, you need to blur the light that reaches your sensor, so that it always fills one pixel completely.
In other words: Every digital camera has a blur filter in addition to the bayer filter in front of it's sensor.
And this only works for just the very resolution the sensor has.
So, when you now record a movie with 1920x1080 pixels from a sensor that has 5616x3744 pixels you have three options:

1) You only take the part in the middle of the sensor that matches your resolution.
→ no more aliasing; but higher crop factor

2a) You only read every second or third or even seldom pixel (= skip pixels/lines).
→ aliasing pops up, since the blur filter doesn't match your resolution anymore; but no higher crop

2b) You still read every second or third or even seldom pixel, but you implement a by voltage controllable variable blur filter.
→ no aliasing and no crop!

3) You take the full image from the sensor and downscale it by software on the fly in the camera before encoding.
→ no aliasing and no crop!


RED as an example uses method 1). That's why decreasing the recorded resolution increases the crop factor.

The 5D3 has one of those crazy by voltage controllable variable blur filters. That's why this camera uses the same sensor size for photos and video (no crop) and has no aliasing.

The 5D2 has none of these solutions from stock, so there is aliasing (in video).
But there's hope: The aliasing filter from mosaic engineering


Any questions left? ;)
5D2 ML RAW + VAF-5D2b:

cmac

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1178 on: August 19, 2013, 09:56:12 PM »
@Scipione205
In fact I did some tests in 5x vs 1x mode, and the moire in 5x is less.
There are some factors to is - while in 5x mode You record EACH following line, in 1X mode You record each 5th line - still the four lines You skip are scanned meanwhile, so the lag is more and the moire is more pronounced. You can skip moire if You keep the focus at the edge - if it's ok for You to sharpen in post, but You will loose fine texture as well.
The explanation from @guentergunter is just wonderful, and if You haven't checked the pictures I can just say that even 1600x800 I use to shoot scales and looks extremly well on a FullHD plasma. Jus keep the color and dynamic well balanced and the CMOS clean - and forget about resolution!

dossisman

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1179 on: August 20, 2013, 12:00:30 AM »
Sounds interesting. What is a BATCHelor? I googled  it but nothing comes up.

Alexp, here's the link.  Hope this helps.

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5645.0

alexp

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1180 on: August 20, 2013, 07:06:15 AM »
Thanks dossisman.

Guys, raw2dmg just deleted my raw files and failed to create dmgs. Is there any way to recover the raw files?

Kabuto1138

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1181 on: August 20, 2013, 11:27:22 AM »
Hey guys, is there a guide anywhere on how to shoot dual iso in the 5d?  all I'm getting after setting up dual iso and hdr video is either RAW or regular H264 with the flicker.  Any suggestions?

thanks!

PressureFM

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1182 on: August 20, 2013, 11:34:15 AM »
Hey guys, is there a guide anywhere on how to shoot dual iso in the 5d?  all I'm getting after setting up dual iso and hdr video is either RAW or regular H264 with the flicker.  Any suggestions?

thanks!

Yes, Dual ISO is ONLY working in photo mode, not video on the 5D Mark II.

Kabuto1138

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1183 on: August 20, 2013, 11:52:26 AM »
DUH!!!, that explains it.

Thanks!

Doyle4

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1184 on: August 20, 2013, 03:13:33 PM »
Thanks dossisman.

Guys, raw2dmg just deleted my raw files and failed to create dmgs. Is there any way to recover the raw files?

Data rescue 3 on mac, add a file extension too it as RAW isnt deafult.

alexp

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1185 on: August 20, 2013, 04:41:42 PM »
Data rescue 3 on mac, add a file extension too it as RAW isnt deafult.

I tried, but it's not allowing me to. Take a look.

Also, I was able to recreate a situation where raw2dng deletes files without creating dmgs. Here is a screen recording https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10164102/raw.mov

Doyle4

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1186 on: August 20, 2013, 05:18:25 PM »
Try this method.

Copy youre RAW files straight to your external from your CF card,

Start RAW2DNG, drag RAW2DNG into the application and when asked to set a working folder choose no.
Drag the RAW files from the external, this will create a folder for the dng's using the default path of the RAW files.

alexp

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1187 on: August 20, 2013, 06:08:46 PM »
Try this method.

Copy youre RAW files straight to your external from your CF card,

Start RAW2DNG, drag RAW2DNG into the application and when asked to set a working folder choose no.
Drag the RAW files from the external, this will create a folder for the dng's using the default path of the RAW files.

Yeah, I know. But right now, I'm still trying to recover files I lost :(((((

alexp

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1188 on: August 20, 2013, 09:26:16 PM »
By the way, I couldn't find any way to receive email notifications about new posts here. How do you guys follow topics? I go to Profile, Summary, Show Posts, and then have to click on 10 different places where I posted messages before, just to see if anyone replied. Is there a better way?

Doyle4

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1189 on: August 20, 2013, 09:31:49 PM »
to be honest im not sure how they got deleted, never once came across this :/

At the top it now says Show new replies to your posts.

guentergunter

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1190 on: August 20, 2013, 10:15:59 PM »
Also, I was able to recreate a situation where raw2dng deletes files without creating dmgs. Here is a screen recording https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10164102/raw.mov
It's alarming, that raw2dng deletes files at all!
Thus creating the worst of all cases imaginable! The loss of files!
I would consider this as a really dangerous bug!

By the way: Did you ever encounter something like this with RAWMagic?
5D2 ML RAW + VAF-5D2b:

alexp

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1191 on: August 21, 2013, 06:00:39 AM »
It's alarming, that raw2dng deletes files at all!
Thus creating the worst of all cases imaginable! The loss of files!
I would consider this as a really dangerous bug!

By the way: Did you ever encounter something like this with RAWMagic?

I found my missing files! The were not deleted, but rather misplaced. The files ended up in /Volumes.
I explain it here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7778.msg68848#msg68848

Good bye raw2dmg, hello Son of Batch!  ;D

Doyle4

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1192 on: August 21, 2013, 11:31:19 AM »
Its the workflow option giving you the problem on RAW2DNG, dont create one, and RAW2DNG is best one i find :)

Doyle4

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1193 on: August 21, 2013, 05:53:40 PM »
I have a Mac and I'm having problem installing the cr2hdr on my Mac. Is there any way you can give me a step by step installation direction?

Remove the terminal command version, and then install the pkg :)

NitromanX

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1194 on: August 22, 2013, 10:11:50 AM »
So just to summarise ...

When shooting raw video with Canon 5D2, is moire / aliasing better than h.264 video or worse (without any VAF5D2) ?

Are there any video resolutions that are best to reduce moire / aliasing ?

 :)

ted ramasola

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1195 on: August 22, 2013, 11:00:11 AM »
So just to summarise ...

When shooting raw video with Canon 5D2, is moire / aliasing better than h.264 video or worse (without any VAF5D2) ?

Are there any video resolutions that are best to reduce moire / aliasing ?

 :)

To my eye, color aliasing and moire is a little worse in raw than h264. You can get much less aliasing and moire in crop mode. Any resolution.
With VAF, its much better BUT in crop mode the VAF softens the image. :)

Just shot this with VAF. Since I don't want to take out the vaf in the field i left it in during shots in crop mode. Crop mode shots are a bit soft but usable in this case.

Heres the charts I posted earlier comparing raw and h264, w/ and w/o vaf.
5DmkII  / 7D
www.ramasolaproductions.com
Texas

dariSSight

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1196 on: August 22, 2013, 11:23:20 AM »
To my eye, color aliasing and moire is a little worse in raw than h264. You can get much less aliasing and moire in crop mode. Any resolution.
With VAF, its much better BUT in crop mode the VAF softens the image. :)

Just shot this with VAF. Since I don't want to take out the vaf in the field i left it in during shots in crop mode. Crop mode shots are a bit soft but usable in this case.

Heres the charts I posted earlier comparing raw and h264, w/ and w/o vaf.

Thanks for the much needed warning on Moire and Aliasing road block. How were you able to get 1880x1080 in 1x, What's your advice on the best aspect ratio with the most resolution and final what's your advice on scaling RAW?
Canon 5D Mark II

silvertonesx24

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1197 on: August 22, 2013, 03:30:19 PM »
i am still on 2013/07/25 build.  However - i do have this problem with a smallHD dp6.
I found a "work around" - unplug the monitor to start with, record one RAW.  Plug it back in and it doesn't crash anymore.  At least with me.  Also i figured out, that even though it crashed - the files were recorded.

Actually, this worked for me once, but after that it still crashes every time. Nothing like having to reboot after every take lol. Oh well, I'll put the external away for now.

PressureFM

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1198 on: August 22, 2013, 03:44:35 PM »
Thanks for the much needed warning on Moire and Aliasing road block. How were you able to get 1880x1080 in 1x, What's your advice on the best aspect ratio with the most resolution and final what's your advice on scaling RAW?

Just scale it in your NLE, we are talking 2-4% increase which will be negligible to your naked eye.

I only shoot in clean 16:9 aspect ratios so far, with a resolution of 1856 x 1044 (3,33% upscale for 1080p) or 1880 x 1058 (2,08% upscale to 1080p).

You just have to be aware of moire and aliasing, which I don't personally experience being a bigger problem in RAW versus H.264 record mode.

togg

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Re: 14-Bit RAW video Builds for 5D2
« Reply #1199 on: August 22, 2013, 04:38:15 PM »

Just shot this with VAF.

Did you use the latest build? (31302bbc6461) I'm having some problem with it and the 64GB komputerbay, speed is not stable and I'm not able to shoot continuos.