Author Topic: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit  (Read 329372 times)

xvince1

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2150 on: March 23, 2014, 05:17:22 PM »
The reason for changing the resolution is portability: in order to keep 1872, one has to either add 5D2-specific exceptions in the code, or remove the safeguard in some other cameras (e.g. both 6D and 5D3 are known to crash on resolutions that are not multiple of 32 pixels, and this crash is a memory overflow that may result in anything, including permanent camera bricking).

I can choose between 1856 and 1888 with no coding effort. Between these 2 numbers there are no values that respect the alignment restrictions from EDMAC (it happens to work on 5D2, but I don't want to rely on this for all other cameras).

Camera-specific exceptions are not always desirable (they make the code harder to maintain and they have a negative effect on testing coverage). I've asked you to convince me that the extra effort to add the exception (and to maintain that exception from now on!) is worth it. I'm trying to simplify things, since this will reduce the burden of maintaining the code base (and this is one of these things that can be kept simple and portable).

In fact, there's something to clarify : I understand that exceptions where to maintain 1872, but maybe I've missed something in the third part...

romainmenke

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2151 on: March 23, 2014, 05:32:37 PM »
No you are right, the big camera specific exception refer to 1872.
I understood that 1888 with the black borders was also an exception.

@alex Is there no difference in coding now or in foreseeable the future between 1856 and 1888?

If there is no coding difference and since no one minds about removing those borders in post, it would be best to have 1880.


xvince1

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2152 on: March 23, 2014, 05:54:28 PM »
And if keeping 1888 may slowdown RAW/MLV developpement for 5D2, I completely agree to only keep 1856...

reddeercity

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2153 on: March 23, 2014, 06:00:03 PM »
It will not make a difference now, all the effort and time it takes to make
All these tests Has come on Deaf Ears! Not matter how much sense it makes to keep
1888 it really come down the effort or the lack of effect on dev. part .
As users we suffer at the hands of miss direction by the form higher up.
So for me Magic Latern Stops at Feb16th for MLV and Oct24th for Raw
As these builds Can Not be improve on as they are maximized right now .

 



ted ramasola

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2154 on: March 23, 2014, 06:09:38 PM »
I suggest we keep emotions in check and keep things objective and technical.

We are asked for visual proof not feelings. We've presented charts and blind tests. Let us wait for the decision from the developers.

The charts show what is there and what is not and what is irrelevant. Until then, lets keep the drama out of a technical thread.
5DmkII  / 7D
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Yoshiyuki Blade

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2155 on: March 23, 2014, 09:00:48 PM »
Interesting, so I got 2/3 correct on the test. I'm surprised that I guessed sample "a" wrong. Even after comparing the "side-by-side" shots, my eyes are still biased toward the 1856 shot  :o.

terranaut

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2156 on: March 23, 2014, 09:17:45 PM »
the only thing i can think of which would be helpful to have higher res, is doing software stabililzation. i think i need about 3% edge area to get my preferred stabilization, so even the 1% gain in pixels would be handy, but not dire.

romainmenke

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2157 on: March 23, 2014, 09:19:43 PM »
the only thing i can think of which would be helpful to have higher res, is doing software stabililzation. i think i need about 3% edge area to get my preferred stabilization, so even the 1% gain in pixels would be handy, but not dire.

true, hadn't thought about that.

Interesting, so I got 2/3 correct on the test. I'm surprised that I guessed sample "a" wrong. Even after comparing the "side-by-side" shots, my eyes are still biased toward the 1856 shot  :o.

if you look closely at the top connectors of the grip you can see a difference in sharpness

Yoshiyuki Blade

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2158 on: March 23, 2014, 10:06:38 PM »
if you look closely at the top connectors of the grip you can see a difference in sharpness

That's sample "c." You have it in reverse order for the full shots :P. The one I have the most difficulty telling apart is the building shot.

romainmenke

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2159 on: March 23, 2014, 10:24:11 PM »
That's sample "c." You have it in reverse order for the full shots :P. The one I have the most difficulty telling apart is the building shot.

haha, in the building shot if you look at the paint strokes on the bricks you can see a difference, they have a bit more contrast.


guentergunter

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2160 on: March 24, 2014, 08:39:02 AM »
I can choose between 1856 and 1888 with no coding effort.

...and it's also no coding effort to discard 8 pixels while converting to dng. You wouldn't even realize it!
This way, no one has to crop anything actively in post! It's simply done in background in the ever necessary converting step.

Seems like a nobrainer to me.
5D2 ML RAW + VAF-5D2b:

Audionut

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2161 on: March 24, 2014, 08:58:03 AM »
...and it's also no coding effort to discard 8 pixels while converting to dng.

Can you describe the process?

Kharak

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2162 on: March 24, 2014, 06:40:09 PM »
What gets me to vote for 1888 is if the raw/mlv2dng discards those 8 Pixels.

that would be awesome!

@Audionut

I have less than zero programming skills, but couldn't a 1880 limit be set in the raw2dng, controlled by a center point? This could result in having to use two different versions of raw/mlv2dng. One specific for 1888 crop and another for all the other resolutions. I understand that creating UI's require quite some work.

But if I only got a raw/mlv2dng I can exchange the one in RAWanizer and some other batch converters eliminating the need to create a UI.
once you go raw you never go back

elfrabo

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newbie questions
« Reply #2163 on: March 24, 2014, 07:09:45 PM »
I'm new to Magic Lantern, I'm using it to shoot RAW on a 5dII. This results in a spectaculair quality, very exciting.

I can shoot continously RAW 1880*940 2:1. This can result in multiple large files of 4 Gb which have to be concatenated on a PC using a script like
cd C:\Users\my_destination_folder
copy /B xyz.RAW+xyz.R00+xyz.R01 xyz.RAW

I'm about to create a bat file for PC that does some of the typing for me: like concatenating all RAW files in a directory, use raw2dng and clean up all files except the dng files. Since it's 15 years ago since my last bat file programming does anybody already have a bat file I could use?

Another question: I'm using After Effects to import the DNG files, which is a great way of importing, using camera RAW. I render a losless AVI file to be able to process further in Premiere Pro. It takes over one hour to create a losless AVI from 7549 frames. Is this a normal duration you think on new hardware? Are there any alternatives using Adobe software?

Kharak

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Re: newbie questions
« Reply #2164 on: March 24, 2014, 08:20:01 PM »
I'm new to Magic Lantern, I'm using it to shoot RAW on a 5dII. This results in a spectaculair quality, very exciting.

I can shoot continously RAW 1880*940 2:1. This can result in multiple large files of 4 Gb which have to be concatenated on a PC using a script like
cd C:\Users\my_destination_folder
copy /B xyz.RAW+xyz.R00+xyz.R01 xyz.RAW

I'm about to create a bat file for PC that does some of the typing for me: like concatenating all RAW files in a directory, use raw2dng and clean up all files except the dng files. Since it's 15 years ago since my last bat file programming does anybody already have a bat file I could use?

Another question: I'm using After Effects to import the DNG files, which is a great way of importing, using camera RAW. I render a losless AVI file to be able to process further in Premiere Pro. It takes over one hour to create a losless AVI from 7549 frames. Is this a normal duration you think on new hardware? Are there any alternatives using Adobe software?

I'm not sure what "concatenating" means, but I think you mean merging the spanned Raw files in to one raw file.

You can download software that does this for you. For raw_rec I recommend RAWanizer. http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5557.0

For mlv_rec MLVBrowseSharp http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8447.0
once you go raw you never go back

reddeercity

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Re: newbie questions
« Reply #2165 on: March 24, 2014, 08:22:24 PM »
I'm new to Magic Lantern, I'm using it to shoot RAW on a 5dII. This results in a spectaculair quality, very exciting.
I can shoot continously RAW 1880*940 2:1. This can result in multiple large files of 4 Gb which have to be concatenated on a PC using a script like
cd C:\Users\my_destination_folder
copy /B xyz.RAW+xyz.R00+xyz.R01 xyz.RAW
I'm about to create a bat file for PC that does some of the typing for me: like concatenating all RAW files in a directory, use raw2dng and clean up all files except the dng files. Since it's 15 years ago since my last bat file programming does anybody already have a bat file I could use?
Another question: I'm using After Effects to import the DNG files, which is a great way of importing, using camera RAW. I render a losless AVI file to be able to process further in Premiere Pro. It takes over one hour to create a losless AVI from 7549 frames. Is this a normal duration you think on new hardware? Are there any alternatives using Adobe software?
Use the MLV Viewer to view .mlv & .raw files on windows and to extract DNG's,there is no need to use command line download link below
http://upload.g3gg0.de/pub_files/09852505c6c352fdaf7fe4eddec48788/MLVViewSharp.zip
If you go to the first page of this thread I have a posted video tutorial with MLV View Sharp in action.
Try the A.E. Premiere Pro work around, I did a short video tutorial, this way you work with the raw dng's directly in Premiere Pro without pink HI-lights.  link--> 
I also think you my have to upgrade your computer performance, Being A.E. love Ram and Lots of GPU.
With about 8000 frame 1872x936 23.976 It takes about 15-20 min to make a video file on my mac to ProRes4444 with my PC the time is about the same but there
I Use QT Blackmagic RGB codec with trillion's + color.--> download link http://software.blackmagicdesign.com/DesktopVideo/Blackmagic_Desktop_Video_Windows_10.0.zip
If you like using AVI's try the AJA pc windows Codec there are about the best out there for a digital intermediate.
A speed Tip for A.E. , before you render press the Cap Lock key, that disables the viewer in A.E. and give a lot more speed !
PC I run a 8 core AMD overclock to 4.7Ghz cpu, 16GB dual channel ram ssd OS drive, raid0 , 2x-gtx580 1.5 ram each = 3GB Vram
On the MAC side I run a Mid2010 MacPro with a PC GTX 760 graphics card etc..

guentergunter

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2166 on: March 24, 2014, 11:37:16 PM »
Can you describe the process?

I'm no programmer, but I did some Java, C and VHDL at university. That's enough to know what's possible and to estimate the effort.

If you're already in C++ (or any other language), you could e.g. implement it with a while loop:

Given is the 2D pixel array (our frame) 'MLV_pic' with 1888 of width (thus 4 black pixels on left and right).

Code: [Select]
int crop()
{
    x = 4;
    while (x <= 1884)
    {
        DNG_pic[x-4][y] = MLV_pic[x][y];
       
        x++;
    }
}

That will give you the 2D pixel array 'DNG_pic' with 1880 of width and without the black pixels.
5D2 ML RAW + VAF-5D2b:

Audionut

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2167 on: March 25, 2014, 02:15:39 AM »
What about the checks for model and resolution?
Thanks for taking the time to reply with useful information.  But the question was more rhetorical in nature. (Where's the smiley for that)

The entire point for the original question (1888 vs 1856), was to minimize code that is specific to a model.  Here, you want to add a bunch of code, specific, not only to a model, but to the resolution it records also.

Cropping is a basic PP process.  It takes 1 line in an AVS script for example.

guentergunter

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2168 on: March 25, 2014, 10:29:06 AM »
The entire point for the original question (1888 vs 1856), was to minimize code that is specific to a model.
Here, you want to add a bunch of code, specific, not only to a model, but to the resolution it records also.


No, according to a1ex, it's no special effort to implement 1888 into ML/MLV and maintain it.
So, the question now is: what to do with our 1888 mlv frames?


What about the checks for model and resolution?


E.g. "RAWMagic" from Thomas Worth (Click) already does check the camera model. So this little while loop could possibly be easily implemented.
The same goes for raw2dng or mlv2dng.

By the way: mlv comes with metadata about the camera model.


Cropping is a basic PP process.  It takes 1 line in an AVS script for example.


I agree, that it's very little effort.
But, I would rather crop in mlv2dng / raw2dng / RAWMagic / etc., since that doesn't need the user to take action.



To summarize the above 1888 way:
  • a minimum effort for ML is needed.
  • all dng converters need to add some simple lines into their routines; since checking for the camera model is already implemented or can easily be done due to the given metadata.
5D2 ML RAW + VAF-5D2b:

romainmenke

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2169 on: March 25, 2014, 10:48:21 AM »
I would say we leave this be for a bit until we hear back from a1ex.
He is the only one who can say it is no trouble coding the 1888.

In the mean while has anyone checked with the guys who developed mlv2dng / raw2dng / RAWMagic /....
Might be interesting too know all the sides to this question before we (users) start deciding things we cannot help with.

guentergunter

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2170 on: March 25, 2014, 01:11:44 PM »
I can choose between 1856 and 1888 with no coding effort.

But you're right. Let's wait for the other side.
I asked already in the RAWMagic threat for a developer statement. Maybe someone with more inside in the other converters may just do it there...
5D2 ML RAW + VAF-5D2b:

romainmenke

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2171 on: March 25, 2014, 02:02:31 PM »
that must be the most quoted sentence ever ;)

Audionut

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Re: 5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit
« Reply #2172 on: March 25, 2014, 03:49:17 PM »
Probably because the lack of effort to pick between resolutions, is being construed to mean, how far away is the NLE.  :P

elfrabo

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Re: newbie questions
« Reply #2173 on: March 25, 2014, 11:06:51 PM »
I'm not sure what "concatenating" means, but I think you mean merging the spanned Raw files in to one raw file.

You can download software that does this for you. For raw_rec I recommend RAWanizer. http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5557.0

For mlv_rec MLVBrowseSharp http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8447.0

Thanks a lot fot your sugestions, I will try them for sure

elfrabo

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Re: newbie questions
« Reply #2174 on: March 25, 2014, 11:08:06 PM »
Use the MLV Viewer to view .mlv & .raw files on windows and to extract DNG's,there is no need to use command line download link below
http://upload.g3gg0.de/pub_files/09852505c6c352fdaf7fe4eddec48788/MLVViewSharp.zip
If you go to the first page of this thread I have a posted video tutorial with MLV View Sharp in action.
Try the A.E. Premiere Pro work around, I did a short video tutorial, this way you work with the raw dng's directly in Premiere Pro without pink HI-lights.  link--> 
I also think you my have to upgrade your computer performance, Being A.E. love Ram and Lots of GPU.
With about 8000 frame 1872x936 23.976 It takes about 15-20 min to make a video file on my mac to ProRes4444 with my PC the time is about the same but there
I Use QT Blackmagic RGB codec with trillion's + color.--> download link http://software.blackmagicdesign.com/DesktopVideo/Blackmagic_Desktop_Video_Windows_10.0.zip
If you like using AVI's try the AJA pc windows Codec there are about the best out there for a digital intermediate.
A speed Tip for A.E. , before you render press the Cap Lock key, that disables the viewer in A.E. and give a lot more speed !
PC I run a 8 core AMD overclock to 4.7Ghz cpu, 16GB dual channel ram ssd OS drive, raid0 , 2x-gtx580 1.5 ram each = 3GB Vram
On the MAC side I run a Mid2010 MacPro with a PC GTX 760 graphics card etc..

Thanks a lot fot your suggestions, I will check them out next weekend