5D2 RAW video Builds 14-Bit

[giacomari]

Hello guys,
I'm an Italian filmmaker and this is my first post.
I apologize now for my bad English ( Google translator is helping me ) .

Only a few months ago I became aware of the Magic Lantern. I have read , and read many of your posts and forums about all the great features, such as shoot in RAW , and I also tried it on my 5D m2.
It is absolutely fantastic. By now I had become accustomed to the standard quality of this camera, but after installing ML ... surprise ... it is as if I walked into a store and I bought a new

camera, but not any ... a camera that can do the miracles, and who also works in RAW !

I want to say : Thank you ... thank you ... thank you ... thank you ... also on behalf of all the Italians who are using ML , (although I do not know them ) , and that they do not even thank
(classic behavior of Italian people ) .

Thank you sincerely to all developers with their ability and patience have succeeded, and continue to do something truly " apocalyptic " .
You've managed to squeeze this camera until the last drop, and now they're coming also the seeds
I can assure you , when I will do that as my next job with the help of ML , I will send a good donation. You deserve it!

If I may, I would have just a few brief questions that I could not answer on forums, maybe for my bad english:
1 - I've noticed that when I shoot in RAW mode, increases the alias effect (moire), there is a way to reduce this, or is it strictly necessary to use the VAF Filter?

2 - I did not understand the difference of filming in RAW or MLV. Is this only for MAC? (I use windows)

3- I am currently filming with an old build that allows me to 1880 x 1016 (11/16/2013 d84b9cd9e86f build) and I'm finding it fine without audio. But I saw that for some time there is no longer a build that goes up to 1880. It 'was removed this option because it is dangerous for the camera?

4- When I shooting with 5x magnification, (you always talk about 3x magnification) for example 1880 x 1058 for a few seconds, when I import this in AE, I see that the size of the frame is always 1880 x 1058, and not highest as I read in the forums or in this table:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgQ2MOkAZTFHdFFIcFp1d0R5TzVPTVJXOEVyUndteGc#gid=5
It is a my mistake? Maybe I did not understand well how is shooting in crop mode?
if these questions are too stupid, please no one responds

Thanks again for everything.

Giacomo

[bnvm]

@giacomari

1.) The moire was always there it was just covered up somewhat by the h264 compression, the only way to reduce this is with a VAF Filter or shoot in crop mode as it doesn't have this problem.

2.) MLV is a new container for holding raw data with extra features like audio and meta data. The raw data is the same with both RAW and MLV. MVL is just a file format so it works on all windows, MAC and Linux(I think), there are some tutorials around that go through the process of using MLV and RAW as well.

3.) The newer builds merged in MLV and as a result some of the custom additions that a.d. added are no longer there since his was/is a custom build. The reason why 1880 is not there is because only the 5D2 can use it, the other cameras don't work well with it so it was not included to keep things consistent across all cameras.

4.) The size of the image you can shoot in crop mode is different than in non crop. Specifically you can shoot higher resolutions horizontally but lower resolutions vertically. The 1058 is probably the max possible height in crop.

[dariSSight]

@giacomari

1.) The moire was always there it was just covered up somewhat by the h264 compression, the only way to reduce this is with a VAF Filter or shoot in crop mode as it doesn't have this problem.

2.) MLV is a new container for holding raw data with extra features like audio and meta data. The raw data is the same with both RAW and MLV. MVL is just a file format so it works on all windows, MAC and Linux(I think), there are some tutorials around that go through the process of using MLV and RAW as well.

3.) The newer builds merged in MLV and as a result some of the custom additions that a.d. added are no longer there since his was/is a custom build. The reason why 1880 is not there is because only the 5D2 can use it, the other cameras don't work well with it so it was not included to keep things consistent across all cameras.

4.) The size of the image you can shoot in crop mode is different than in non crop. Specifically you can shoot higher resolutions horizontally but lower resolutions vertically. The 1058 is probably the max possible height in crop.

Great answers it made me a little more informed on the world of Magic Lantern RAW. Shoot in Crop mode you said will eliminate most Moire errors, but doesn't that bring the image too close for frame accuracy?

[dariSSight]

Hello guys,
I'm an Italian filmmaker and this is my first post.
I apologize now for my bad English ( Google translator is helping me ) .

Only a few months ago I became aware of the Magic Lantern. I have read , and read many of your posts and forums about all the great features, such as shoot in RAW , and I also tried it on my 5D m2.
It is absolutely fantastic. By now I had become accustomed to the standard quality of this camera, but after installing ML ... surprise ... it is as if I walked into a store and I bought a new

camera, but not any ... a camera that can do the miracles, and who also works in RAW !

I want to say : Thank you ... thank you ... thank you ... thank you ... also on behalf of all the Italians who are using ML , (although I do not know them ) , and that they do not even thank
(classic behavior of Italian people ) .

Thank you sincerely to all developers with their ability and patience have succeeded, and continue to do something truly " apocalyptic " .
You've managed to squeeze this camera until the last drop, and now they're coming also the seeds
I can assure you , when I will do that as my next job with the help of ML , I will send a good donation. You deserve it!

If I may, I would have just a few brief questions that I could not answer on forums, maybe for my bad english:
1 - I've noticed that when I shoot in RAW mode, increases the alias effect (moire), there is a way to reduce this, or is it strictly necessary to use the VAF Filter?

2 - I did not understand the difference of filming in RAW or MLV. Is this only for MAC? (I use windows)

3- I am currently filming with an old build that allows me to 1880 x 1016 (11/16/2013 d84b9cd9e86f build) and I'm finding it fine without audio. But I saw that for some time there is no longer a build that goes up to 1880. It 'was removed this option because it is dangerous for the camera?

4- When I shooting with 5x magnification, (you always talk about 3x magnification) for example 1880 x 1058 for a few seconds, when I import this in AE, I see that the size of the frame is always 1880 x 1058, and not highest as I read in the forums or in this table:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgQ2MOkAZTFHdFFIcFp1d0R5TzVPTVJXOEVyUndteGc#gid=5
It is a my mistake? Maybe I did not understand well how is shooting in crop mode?
if these questions are too stupid, please no one responds

Thanks again for everything.

Giacomo

Great Question

[PressureFM]

Great answers it made me a little more informed on the world of Magic Lantern RAW. Shoot in Crop mode you said will eliminate most Moire errors, but doesn't that bring the image too close for frame accuracy?

It simply means you will have to move to a wider lens, which luckily isn't a problem with EF mount. Many great options out there.

Because of moiré I usually only shoot in crop mode and it gives me continuous shooting with my cards.

[dariSSight]

It simply means you will have to move to a wider lens, which luckily isn't a problem with EF mount. Many great options out there.

Because of moiré I usually only shoot in crop mode and it gives me continuous shooting with my cards.

So which wider lens do you use and how much are they going for?

[Kharak]

I think this moire is a bit overrated. Ofc there are cases where you will see extreme moire patterns. but the normal viewer doesn't notice moire unless it gets extreme.

Keep the story interesting and people wont have time to consider moire

[cmac]

giacomari >

In crop mode You can use even the cheapest lenses which suits You - zoom or prime. Just remember that when You shoot at resolution close to FullHD You should multiply the lens by 3 (for example 10 mm lens = 35 mm lens on Full Frame).

The crop of 21 MP equivalent to APS-C sensor is around 8MP, so most lenses have that resolution covered well. Since You the center part of the frame it's about 1/2 of it - so You are using the sharpest part of the lenses - that's why almost ANY EF-S lens will do.

You should consider more the focus and zoom ring and stabilization more than the glass (my personal opinion).

But I guess You could just walk into a photo store and test few lenses in crop mode and decide which one will work for You!

Here is a small explanation of sizes and moire I did.
The red rectangle s the frame when You shoot in Full Frame, the green one is when You shoot in zoom (crop) mode.

[guentergunter]

You may wanna take a look at this little comparisson:

As you can see, Moire isn't completely eliminated with the VAF, but it's way better in the mid range.
In other words: there's still moire in really extreme cases. But the biggest part of what you'll find in the real world is gone!

----

My latest movie (see below) is entirely recorded in NON-crop-mode with the VAF. You can randomly scroll through it and will hardly see any moire.
Besides: Crop mode is free of moire (certainly without the VAF, as cmac explained really fine), but, you completely loose wide angle capabilities. Take a look at 13:14 mins. I used a 14mm-Lens - and created a look, you just can't in crop mode!

So, I would recommend a VAF with non crop mode for extreme wide angles. And once you got your VAF, the need for crop is gone in most cases (except really crazy zoom shoots).

[giacomari]

really thank you for all these tips, they are very relevant.
I began to have a clearer idea about it.
Now I will do some thorough testing to better learn, especially in crop mode, which still know very little.
Unfortunately I do not have a VAF, however I will try to avoid as much as possible objects with strong alias, and not with strong wideangle.
Originally I'm from traditional film (super 16mm), and after a few time working on digital, I'm still getting used to all the infinite possibilities of this unique medium.
I will let you know very soon, maybe with a video.
thanks
Giacomo

[bnvm]

When the camera takes video the sensor captures an image that is 5616x3744 pixels in size. In order to get a HD size video the camera needs to reduce the size of the images to HD size. It does so by only reading every 3rd pixel from the image in width and height, 5616/3 = 1872 pixels(This is why the max resolution in non crop mode is 1872 and not 1920). Since it is reading every 3rd pixel instead of doing some sort of averaging the result is an under-sampled image that has aliasing and moire.

In crop mode the camera reads every pixel on a smaller portion of the sensor, about 1/3 of it. Since it is now reading every pixel and no longer skipping the image no longer has any aliasing or moire. It is internally performing and operation similar to opening the image in a editing program which is 5616 pixels wide and cropping out a section in the middle that is only 1872 pixels across. This effectively increases the focal length of the lens 3 times or mimics a camera with a crop factor of 3. This is also why it is called 3x crop mode even though you are using the 5x zoom on the camera. It is exactly the same as a 48 mm lens on a super 35 mm camera having the same field of view as a 24 mm lens on a super 16 mm camera.

[Kharak]

@gunter

13:14, moneyshot! Very nice and shows the power a full frame camera.

too bad I dont understand German. I remember you published your film here, but I could only watch about 5 min as I don't understand the story

personal fan of wides.

[giacomari]

It simply means you will have to move to a wider lens, which luckily isn't a problem with EF mount. Many great options out there.

Because of moiré I usually only shoot in crop mode and it gives me continuous shooting with my cards.

I tried and tried in various resolutions, but in crop mode (5x magnif.) I can't shoot more than a few seconds. For example: 6 sec. at 2048 x 1076 and 19 sec at 1856 x 928 using a KompterBay 1000x 128gb
What kind of cards do you use?

[ted ramasola]

when in crop mode use FPS override and set to 23.976 and choose EXACT FPS.

[giacomari]

when in crop mode use FPS override and set to 23.976 and choose EXACT FPS.

Hi Ted,
I went to take a ride on your website, and I was very impressed by how the question of the crop mode, and not only that, are explained very carefully, .
My compliments for everything you do.
As you have suggested, I tried to set on EXACT 23.976 fps and finally I managed to film in crop mode and in continuous.
Unfortunately, in this mode the camera now does something that has never done before: when I set at 5x magnification, the image on the viewfinder clears one or two stops after a second, and also the image has recorded this overexposure. I tried with various builds, but always with the same result.
But If I reset the "fps override" to off, everything comes back ok, but again does not allow me to shoot continuously.
I hope that mine is a known problem, maybe someone can help me understand?

[guentergunter]

@gunter

13:14, moneyshot! Very nice and shows the power a full frame camera.

too bad I dont understand German. I remember you published your film here, but I could only watch about 5 min as I don't understand the story

personal fan of wides.

Thank you

Btw, I just added some subtitles 

[giacomari]

You may wanna take a look at this little comparisson:

As you can see, Moire isn't completely eliminated with the VAF, but it's way better in the mid range.
In other words: there's still moire in really extreme cases. But the biggest part of what you'll find in the real world is gone!
----
My latest movie (see below) is entirely recorded in NON-crop-mode with the VAF. You can randomly scroll through it and will hardly see any moire.
Besides: Crop mode is free of moire (certainly without the VAF, as cmac explained really fine), but, you completely loose wide angle capabilities. Take a look at 13:14 mins. I used a 14mm-Lens - and created a look, you just can't in crop mode!

So, I would recommend a VAF with non crop mode for extreme wide angles. And once you got your VAF, the need for crop is gone in most cases (except really crazy zoom shoots).

Today only I could see your two videos: the test and your short film.
The test is very indicative and useful for a good example of how to fight the alias.
Your short film seems a funny story, is shot with care and cleanliness; my compliments. Too bad I could not understand German.
Thank you.

[Naturalbornsamy]

Hi Everyone,

I've been using magic lantern firmware to shoot raw vids with my DSLR for some time now and it always worked properly.
But today, when opening the files I shot yesterday, I found some vertical strides on each and every frame (cf link).
This problem occurred with both oct 24 (on one card) and Jan 14 (on the other).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8m58izffa5amry3/Capture%20d%E2%80%99%C3%A9cran%202014-02-10%20%C3%A0%2014.23.14.png
Same strides appear wether using "raw magic" or "raw 2 dng".
Can somebody pleeeeaaaaase help me out

[a1ex]

Upload a DNG and post the conversion log from raw2dng.

[Naturalbornsamy]

Ok that's very weird, I just "decompress" one more time a RAW file to upload a dng and now, I don't have problem any more with Raw2dng and RawMagic...
here's a pics from the same Raw file with the same software :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kbsorp5jrss92ta/Capture%20d%E2%80%99%C3%A9cran%202014-02-10%20%C3%A0%2014.58.43.png

One decompress this morning and the other right now...

I gonna re-decompress all my Raw to see what's happen and I'll told you.

Thx

[Doyle4]

Someone point me in right direction for a MLV viewer for mac please, found one on here and doesnt boot up on 10.8.5, installed whats needed and nothing, cheers!

[bnvm]

I found using the latest a.d. build 02/04 to be the most unstable one so far. I don't what to double post so I put the details on the mlv modules forum.

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7122.msg100790#msg100790

[loconetter]

Sorry for the "tangental" question.  How exactly do you set "CROP" mode.  I am using 5dm2, with the Feb 04 ad build.  I am using straight RAW mode, not MLV.

Thanks in advance.

Nelson

[bnvm]

You press the zoom button on the upper right on the back of the body near the LCD screen, the same one that allows you to zoom the LV. Just press it once to 5x zoom, it doesn't work properly in 10x zoom.

[ted ramasola]

to add to bnvm's answer I recommend your procedure for working in crop mode would be this additional tips.

1. Press the magnify button once to activate 3x crop mode (this is 5x zoom in canon terms) As bnvm mentioned.
2. Use Auto in preview to give you "proper" framing in crop mode. (framing is wyswyg) but in grayscale and low res.
3. Once in crop mode, you can use half press of shutter to give you color preview and apparent better resolution but still low refresh rate(does not affect recording)
4. Before recording, you can use 10X zoom to confirm your focus, go back to 3x (5x zoom)crop mode to start recording.