Author Topic: 600D/T3i Raw Video  (Read 199018 times)

alephone

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #825 on: June 26, 2013, 07:35:50 AM »
So now that this has been out and tested for a little while.  I'm wondering what peoples opinions are when it comes to H.264 vs the RAW on the t3i.  I am by no means a pro and pretty new to DSLR (been doing it for only a year) but it seems like the RAW does look a little more rich and we know that there is more dynamic range with it.  I'm obsessed with shooting it I guess because it's new and the whole thing is just fun testing a feature that was never intended by Canon.  With the RAW @ (940x544) lower reso vs. the H.264 at 1080p which picture do you guys consider to better when they are both correctly lighted and graded?  Is one better than the other or are there pros and cons of each one. I'm not meaning straight out of the camera but rather what the potential end results in post are compared to one another.  Is there a winner?

jgharding

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #826 on: June 26, 2013, 12:35:04 PM »
So now that this has been out and tested for a little while.  I'm wondering what peoples opinions are when it comes to H.264 vs the RAW on the t3i.

From my own tests I'll be using H264, currently an older build with GOP and slice control.

I stress tested the picture hard and using slice control you can keep the encoder nice and high in GOP 1 (I-frame) mode. This makes ISO 6400 easily usable even in incredibly complex scenes, when using Neat Video to denoise. File sizes are high, but that's OK. It's a full APS-C sensor with a usable codec. It doesn't have full 1080p resolution but it's not bad. I-frame motion cadence is the most film like, as each picture is individual.

You don't have the dynamic range of raw, but raw is very cropped, and kind of removes one of the reasons I started using DSLRs in the first place: the large sensor.

The raw isn't so aliased for me as I have the Mosaic Engineering TXi filter installed, but it's still heavily cropped and low resolution. I could upscale 2.39:1 (I think it was 1024 * something) to 720p with crop bars, but still, the jello appears worse, resolution is lower even after upscaling, and it's really cropped so I'd have to start using crazy wide focal lengths and so on, change lens sets and so on.

The compromises in its current state aren't worth it for me BUT everything changes in the world of Magic Lantern, so keep an eye on it, keep testing for yourself.  8)

Someone may find a way to round some bits on the way the card, 14-bits is pretty opulent. I'd sacrifice some of that colour info for the improved DR and resolution if we could get a 720p crop or similar. But perhaps no-one will be able to do it, perhaps they will.

Experiments with the 650D show it has the ability to write more quickly, so that model may be the best bet. Keep watching and testing... there's currently compromises.

I'm shooting with GOP1 slice control again on Saturday, a fashion film with lots of macro detailed close ups. Again, without the Mosaic TXi filter a Canon DSLR except the 5D iii would be hopeless with fine detailed cloth, all the extra data would be used by false colour and moire hell, so if you have the cash consider that tool.

That's the best roundup I can give.
Zeiss primes, 600D, a lot of shadow. http://www.jgharding.com

alephone

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #827 on: June 26, 2013, 07:11:50 PM »
thank you for the detailed breakdown it is exactly what I was looking for. I think I'll stick to H.264 unless something new gives in the way of RAW.  I really didn't know much about the GOP and slice control features.  I'm looking more into them now.  What build are you using?

apefos

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #828 on: June 27, 2013, 07:29:04 AM »
If you want extreme buffer for highest resolution and fps, the last build is better, but...

If the main goal is continous recording, the "New System" is the best build until now, no doubt, it works pretty well for continours recording with canon LV and the RAW menu and overlays are well done.

I would like to request 2 features, using "New System" as a base:

1 - implement 36fps in FPS Override menu, because it will give 1.5x slow motion in 24p video using 896x384 resolution, great for Cinemascope look and upscales pretty good for 1280x548, great for DLP or 3LCD projectors and for WEB. 896x384@36fps will allow continous recording, below 21MBps and intercuts good with 1088x480@24p. (to be honest I did not like the image quality using 720p in canon menu for raw slowmotion, image get lots of aliasing, so 896x384@36fps will be best option for slowmotion in 600d raw cinemascope look upscaled to 1280)

2 - enable a fourth line below the last overlay line in the bottom with the resolution and fps being used in the shoot for we see it while recording.

downloads for the "New System" increased a lot!

Thanks


jgharding

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #829 on: June 27, 2013, 10:41:05 AM »
I can explain these settings in practical terms (ive had a few messages asking me to do just that) but I think ill start a new thread about it

Otherwise I think the recent increase in popularity will result in development threads here being swamped with feature requests and questions about technical terms and their practical applications, which probably won't help devs with shared testing :)
Zeiss primes, 600D, a lot of shadow. http://www.jgharding.com

MD87

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #830 on: June 27, 2013, 06:22:37 PM »
Hello. Today on Vimeo found a video shot with the 60d with the settings 1728x736 (2.35:1 aspect ratio) @ 24 fps.
  In the comments, the author recommends the following: "Try turning RAW image quality off and set it to S3 in the canon menu." So the question is: Does this focus on the 600D?
600D+ TL. CANON 50 F1.8 II; TAMRON  17-50 F2.8 VC; CANON 18-135; MIR-1B 37 F2.8; JUPITER-37A 135 F3.5.

1%

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #831 on: June 27, 2013, 06:46:51 PM »
Quote
implement 36fps

1. I don't think 1080/640 LV goes that fast.
2. Write speed is too low, try 720P at 36 and see what res you can do

Quote
Try turning RAW image quality off and set it to S3

Sraw gave up the most memory, others no change or a bunch less.

apefos

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #832 on: June 27, 2013, 07:58:21 PM »
hi, thanks for the advice... but I do not like the aliasing from 720p LV

I did some tests setting fps override to 40fps in 640x480 LV and started to change the timings.

640LV at default timings with fps set to 40 it shows 37,7 or so... changing timings values I got 36,477fps continous recording at 896x384, enough for some slowmotion... after some crop it will give me 870x384, 2,26666:1 aspect ratio, the same of 1088x480@23,976 or I can keep 896x384 as is and crop the other to 1088x466 to get both at 2,3333:1

I believe these two settings will works great for 1280 upscaling for widescreen similar to cinemascope, great for 720p projectors.

AriLG

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #833 on: June 28, 2013, 08:34:23 AM »
1%

Have you managed to fix the upload problem you had with Bitbucket ?
T3i (main), T2i
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Haliburton

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #834 on: June 28, 2013, 09:13:59 PM »
<snip>
Sraw gave up the most memory, others no change or a bunch less.

Thank you 1% for reminding us of this tip.

Does the Sraw setting leave the most buffer memory available on all cameras, eg. including the 60D?

1%

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #835 on: June 28, 2013, 09:20:14 PM »
600D only so far, every camera is different... on 6D i can shoot raw quality and there is another trick.

Quote
Have you managed to fix the upload problem you had with Bitbucket ?

Nope still kicks me out all the time. *sometimes* i can upload to 6D repo. So I dunno I need a new place to upload or just keep posting mega links.

AriLG

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #836 on: June 28, 2013, 09:31:37 PM »
600D only so far, every camera is different... on 6D i can shoot raw quality and there is another trick.

Nope still kicks me out all the time. *sometimes* i can upload to 6D repo. So I dunno I need a new place to upload or just keep posting mega links.
Could you try a test file ? maybe a simple text file ... maybe BB suspect that the file is "bad"...

Out if interest, can it be that the upscaling process (in ACR) will later make the final file seem like its ghosting ?... when I pan or shoot people walking fast (or running) near the camera, there are "trailing" artifacts, not dissimilar from those seen in the first HDR movie...
T3i (main), T2i
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It's not about accuracy,  it's about Aesthetics

1%

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #837 on: June 28, 2013, 09:35:26 PM »
It just logs me out and doesn't let me upload or delete anything. The upload box is missing :(

escho

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #838 on: June 28, 2013, 10:22:20 PM »
It just logs me out and doesn't let me upload or delete anything. The upload box is missing :(

But you can push commits to TL2-Repo to hold the source up to date? Or is this impossible too?

Edgar
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600D, 6D, openSUSE Tumbleweed

1%

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #839 on: June 28, 2013, 11:39:22 PM »
Yea, I can still push commits. Not much 600D beneficial stuff since the last build.

Haliburton

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #840 on: June 29, 2013, 04:19:29 AM »
OK, so *best stills setting for most buffer space while shooting raw video, is sRAW on 600D / T3i, and different for other cameras, eg. set to smallest JPG on 60D?

Too, if possible, it would be great if switching on RAW video was able to set GlobalDraw to be on while setting up, off while filming, and perhaps on-demand (push a button, eg. DOF preview) for brief checking while filming.

I am betting that there’s no way ML could change the Canon menu setting for stills resolution (i.e. for largest buffer size) when raw video is enabled.


thanks for everything you do, 1% :)

Thank you 1% for reminding us of this tip.

Does the Sraw setting leave the most buffer memory available on all cameras, eg. including the 60D?
600D only so far, every camera is different... on 6D i can shoot raw quality and there is another trick.
<snip>

p.s.

It would be great if we had a single thread for optimal settings while shooting raw, for all cameras’. Not sure how many people may have multiple camera models capable of filming in raw as I do; it would be great to see a chart of the differences, like the excellent “Current raw video capabilities - All ML cameras” thread http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6215

Such a thread might be like the excellent, existing, general thread
http://www.magiclantern.fm/bestpractices

…but for RAW film making.

:)

1%

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #841 on: June 29, 2013, 05:52:47 AM »
Quote
Too, if possible, it would be great if switching on RAW video was able to set GlobalDraw to be on while setting up, off while filming, and perhaps on-demand (push a button, eg. DOF preview) for brief checking while filming.

It already does the first half of that, just set GD off in the module. The format has to settle down and get finalized before we can write guides.

Wartburg-Entertainment

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #842 on: June 29, 2013, 03:56:23 PM »
Hello,

can you tell me which is the best workaround to avoid the pink-pictures?
Have all the latest builds on my 600D.

Thank you

AriLG

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #843 on: June 29, 2013, 04:21:30 PM »
I'm also getting pink frames with the last frame being a complete pure noise.  :(
T3i (main), T2i
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It's not about accuracy,  it's about Aesthetics

alephone

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #844 on: June 30, 2013, 01:43:23 AM »
I'm not getting any pink frames on the NewSystem build from the 15th on 960x544. This has been the most stable build for me. I do get pink frames and the lcd lags on the first recorded file but everything after that is a gravy train with biscuit wheels.

AriLG

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #845 on: June 30, 2013, 08:57:53 AM »
I'm not getting any pink frames on the NewSystem build from the 15th on 960x544. This has been the most stable build for me. I do get pink frames and the lcd lags on the first recorded file but everything after that is a gravy train with biscuit wheels.
This version on Bitbucket is not the latest.

As 1% is unable to upload new versions over there (Bitbucket) he uploaded elsewhere in the meantime. the latest one he uploaded contains pink frames (at least for me. and apparently not just me).
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It's not about accuracy,  it's about Aesthetics

alephone

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #846 on: July 01, 2013, 01:20:44 AM »
Yes the latest build has pink frames for me as well.  That's why I reverted back to the last build on bitbucket as it has been the most stable for me. I was just answering Wartburgs question as to a work around (which for me was reverting back to an earlier build).  I did not fare well with the latest build at all and I suspect a lot of other people w/ the 600d have went back to the build from the 15th by just looking at the number of downloads it has lol.  I did find the latest build to be faster and squeeze a little more umphh out of the 600d but at the expense of littered pink frames here and there. I think we pretty much hit the wall with this camera but who knows.  ML devs seem to be consistent about surprising us.

1%

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #847 on: July 01, 2013, 03:08:49 AM »
Try now and see if there are pink frames for 640x480 mode with FPS override or one of the other modes w/blackout.

https://bitbucket.org/OtherOnePercent/tragic-lantern-2.0/downloads/%5B600D%5D%20SixThirty.zip

I was also off by 0x4 in the raw type address, this build doesn't set one... any less or more pink frames?

There is only one difference between the autoexec.bins and no module differences.

[600D] NoType.zip
https://mega.co.nz/#!k9JAgTDa!CMfgO0UBWz2YUJLUL2HHt18t9MhqhY0-wDX6VjzJzXM

alephone

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #848 on: July 01, 2013, 07:04:25 AM »
Just wanted to report that I have tried both of the new posted builds and am still getting pink frames. It does seem to be less but it also seemed to be almost every 1st frame was pink.  I tried in 640x480 & 1920x1080 Canon menu setting. The 640x480 didn't lag in the lcd which is how I usually can tell that there is going to be pink frames present, but they were still there.  I tried having the extra hacks on and off and same result.  I didn't use the kill live view hack because I need live view lol so I'm not sure what the results would be. I'm still a fan of the newsystem ( June 15th) build. Which is strange because it's the last build before the variable buffering was implemented correct? I have tried all variables that I know of on freshly formatted new 45mbps sandisk cards and for now am still going to stick with the earlier build.

AriLG

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Re: Uncompressed 600D Raw Video
« Reply #849 on: July 01, 2013, 01:39:21 PM »
Have we reached a brickwall in regards to what the T3i can do (file dimensions) ?
T3i (main), T2i
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It's not about accuracy,  it's about Aesthetics