600D/T3i Raw Video

[CFP]

If you want to film with a 3X cropfactor, just buy a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera or any Canon DSLR with an CF-Card slot.

The 50D, 5D Mark II and 5D Mark III all can film in 3X crop mode too since Magic Lantern's RAW video also works in 3X crop mode (The focus zoom). So you can get 1920 X 832 14-bit RAW (512 Megabit/s) videos without moiré with all of them. With the 600D ... Nah, only fake 1920 X 1080 8-bit 4:2:0 H.264 (45 Megabit/s)

And of course the 650D and 700D have it too, but in slightly lower resolutions = even more crop.

Still, Canon won't loose any money because of this. Seriously, Canon's DSLR are mainly build for photography. And the digital zoom doesn't work for photografy. I doubt that somebody got fired because he implemented the 3X zoom on the 600D.

I'm not saying that the 600D is a bad camera. I own one and I love it! It is really great. But the RAW video on this camera is just for special situations (Still nice to have it! I really like it ) and no replacement for H.264 like on the 5D Mark III or 50D. And the 600D is by far not the best affordable video camera.

(If I "sound" a little bit offensive, I apollogize. I'm just mad because the only thing that's keeping the 600D from really beeing the most amazing videocamera < 1000 € is the slow SD-Controller. Canon, why? ... We could have 1732 X 1154 14-bit RAW video and the benefits like audio and flipscreen ...  )

[vicnaum]

Yeah, sure, a great high-resolution flip-screen is the thing missing in 50D.

[Critical Point]

Yes, well what can I say ? I too am looking forward for the release of the black magic pocket cinema, that sure as hell it's going to put a dent in the Canon DSLR lineup for filming. I just want to see first some more footage from that camera.

Anyway, about the 600D, yes, I agree, you can shoot raw with 3x digital zoom on other Canon cameras, but you can't shoot H.264, so it's either the 600D, or the MK III, so in this regard, the 600D is king of the hill in this price range. And oho, trust me, since the 3x digital zoom doesn't come by default not even with the MK III, trust me on this one, it is a big deal. Just imagine in the paparazzi sector, how much money it's spend on high powered zoom lenses, not only for taking pictures, but for video also. Don't underestimate the importance of that 3x zoom, it is not by any mistake they have left it out in the newer cameras.

[N/A]

Need to borrow my buddy's Tokina 11-16 and shoot a few 3x zoom clips and compare it with stock footage, isn't 3x zoom upscaled less as well?

Anyway, getting off topic. The smaller file sizes we get with raw is extremely convenient, we can do close to half an hour of raw footage with a 32 GB. Uprez it to 720p, put it on Youtube/vimeo, less upload time/faster buffering. And besides, if we're shooting something that absolutely NEEDS 1080p, we shouldn't be shooting with a "Rebel" anyway lol.

Think I'll do a 1080p downrez, raw uprez test to 720p and compare.

[Critical Point]

I don't know if the 3x zoom is upscaled, but what i know from experience, is that it gets rid off all the aliasing and moire that you normally get from the sensor line skipping, and the quality of the videos, is better in this way. For RAW video, it sure does a good thing, because RAW videos tend to suffer from this aliasing issue because of the low res.

I think that shooting RAW with 3x digital zoom at 960X540, and then rescale it to 720p, will give you the best video quality the 600D can produce right now, and because the image is so clean, and with virtually no aliasing, you can even upscale it to 1080p and get away with it. But first try to upscale it to 720p, that will probably be the best quality.

[caser]

Is there a way to configure Magic Lantern to start with the raw record mode enabled with frame skipping, in the same way that FPS override is enabled?  It is so difficult renegotiating those menus and buttons in the dark every time I start the camera.


Also, is the 600D really 4:4:4 14 bit?  I have never used that before and was surprised that the performance in low light was worse than an old point and shoot from 2007.  I filmed it a little underexposed thinking I could fix in post just like a raw photo.  Nope.

I am thinking about selling this 600D and trying to find a cheap 50D if it would make a difference.

[1%]

I think we're mixing things here:

5x/10x - 1:1 zoom - basically as much as the camera can sample in 1:1 - all canons have this

3X crop - similar to zoom but scaled/skipped to fit the whole image in one "window" - 600D/1Dc/1DX

raw_rec crop... just a random rectangle cut of whatever mode you're in.

This has 0 impact on canon lens sales... you'll only get that 800mm effect in video/raw mode... and just think how far the real deal will reach.

It does have impact on video cameras though... they want you to just have that muddy crap video and upgrade.
Otherwise why not 100MB/s H264 all the time.. and why the joke all-I (frames too big) mode with crippled IPB (frames too small) on digicV.

P/S.. 50D has same CPU/pink frame issues as 600D.. .from how long I could use it before it died... I got 1/2 way through beep and got display filters working then poof (AA not working)... maybe it will shine with native 24p or something... 600D with CF would eat it up.

[N/A]

So the only option would be some crazy attempt to bypass the sd card controller into a ssd or similar? Even if the hardware worked, would still need additional coding to be compatible, I'm assuming?

600D,  the little engine that could 

[AriLG]

Does the seperate WAV in 600D work ?

I've searched here for "600D RAW SOUND" and the results were of no good to me...

Upon trying to engage seperate WAV in 600D (with RAW engaged) - the camera simply shuts itself. am I the only one with this ?....

[Edgar Matos]

Probably the guy who put the 3x zoom feature on the 600D was fired by Canon.

Ha!  Don't laugh, it's probably true. But just when I think the 600d had reach the limit, there come 3x crop factor. Finally, I have the chance to see what that girl is doing in that far away window.

[1%]

Lol.. 5x raw you'll really see what they're doing..


I know why wav doesn't work... same reason bolt rec "doesn't work"... were so out of memory its not funny... wav can use shoot_malloc... but then we take from H264 or Raw... and we don't have nice resource manager area like 60D to put the bin there and free things up.

[AriLG]

I know why wav doesn't work... same reason bolt rec "doesn't work"... were so out of memory its not funny... wav can use shoot_malloc... but then we take from H264 or Raw... and we don't have nice resource manager area like 60D to put the bin there and free things up.

So what are our options regarding RAW shooting + sound recording ?

Oh, BTW... Thanks, man ! for everything you do ! 

[CFP]

Which options? We ran out of memory and we have extremly slow write speeds. There's probably no way to fix that ...

[vicnaum]

So what are our options regarding RAW shooting + sound recording ?

Buy a voice-recorder. Zoom or Tascam. 100-200$ on amazon.

[vicnaum]

Btw, people, please understand:

Say you want to shot 50mm (on 5D fullframe, normal lens, real 50mm, pretty standard and close to human fov)

To get the same FOV, you will need a 17mm lens when shooting RAW 960x540 16:9 on 600D (because of 2.88x crop factor (1.8*1.6))
And if you also use 3x crop, or zoom, or something - you'll need a 8mm fisheye, or even wider to get an ordinary normal 50mm field of view.

So now all talks about best quality 960x540 stretched to 1080p on youtube fit more to shooting the moon in the sky, birds in the forest and girl in the window next block - very special purpose, not for everyday shooting.
With all these crops, zooms, cropped raw little windows - you're getting a really-really-really long lens which isn't quite suitable for ordinary shooting (especially interior shooting). And if you cut it to cinemascope 2.39:1 - then you get even less space and less fov.
If you like to shoot long-lenses - then 600D is for you. If you're more to shooting wide - then nope.

Although, I can get a full 1728x960 (stretched from 1728x576 sqeeze in 720p mode) at 12FPS continuous recording (19.9MB/s stream) - and that's good for slow-movement shooting.

And btw, if 650D has twice the bandwidth - then we can do 1728x960 stretched in 24FPS, correct? That would be best for me.

[AriLG]

Which options? We ran out of memory and we have extremly slow write speeds. There's probably no way to fix that ...

When I say "options" I'm not talking programming wise, dear friend 

I think I understood that we have reached a bricked wall regarding the limitations of the HW...

Buy a voice-recorder. Zoom or Tascam. 100-200$ on amazon.

I have one. Zoom H2N. how do I sync ?

[vicnaum]

I have one. Zoom H2N. how do I sync ?

How the big guys do - with a clap.

[JohnBarlow]

All this sounds pretty defeatist to me

If you want full frame using regular lenses this workflow is for you

1 Shoot 960 x 960 with a 2x scope @ 12p
2 In post stretch to 1920 x 960 and Twixtor to 24p (perfectly suitable for narrative)

The 960 vertical is the same picture height as Canons 1080, also its slightly wider when stretched

PROS: your cards dont fill up so quick and cheaper cards , CinemaScope aesthetic, High vertical aquisition means better sharpness
CONS: you need a 2x scope, Twixtor & some more rendering time

If the devs can see their way to providing 1088 x 960 then true Cinemascope aspect is doable, on both 550D and 600D

Btw, people, please understand:

Say you want to shot 50mm (on 5D fullframe, normal lens, real 50mm, pretty standard and close to human fov)

To get the same FOV, you will need a 17mm lens when shooting RAW 960x540 16:9 on 600D (because of 2.88x crop factor (1.8*1.6))
And if you also use 3x crop, or zoom, or something - you'll need a 8mm fisheye, or even wider to get an ordinary normal 50mm field of view.

So now all talks about best quality 960x540 stretched to 1080p on youtube fit more to shooting the moon in the sky, birds in the forest and girl in the window next block - very special purpose, not for everyday shooting.
With all these crops, zooms, cropped raw little windows - you're getting a really-really-really long lens which isn't quite suitable for ordinary shooting (especially interior shooting). And if you cut it to cinemascope 2.39:1 - then you get even less space and less fov.
If you like to shoot long-lenses - then 600D is for you. If you're more to shooting wide - then nope.

Although, I can get a full 1728x960 (stretched from 1728x576 sqeeze in 720p mode) at 12FPS continuous recording (19.9MB/s stream) - and that's good for slow-movement shooting.

And btw, if 650D has twice the bandwidth - then we can do 1728x960 stretched in 24FPS, correct? That would be best for me.

[vicnaum]

Yeah, anamorph is great, sure.

But to me - it's unreal. Firstly the price, then focusing trouble (two focuses instead of one) so need an assistant (or two), and lens limitations/mounting trouble.

[1%]

1088x960 is probably too big to record at full speed. 650D should be close to 6D so 720P works, etc. Just 650D has a lot of other "catches".

[JohnBarlow]

1088x960 is probably too big to record at full speed. 650D should be close to 6D so 720P works, etc. Just 650D has a lot of other "catches".

Agreed, if by full speed you mean 24p

But at 12p is within the 21MB bandwidth

[JohnBarlow]

There are two types of horse race:
One is on the flats
The other is over fences

In other words "Horses for Courses"

In both cases you have to be in it to win it

Yeah, anamorph is great, sure.

But to me - it's unreal. Firstly the price, then focusing trouble (two focuses instead of one) so need an assistant (or two), and lens limitations/mounting trouble.

[caser]

Ok starting to figure out this workflow.  Boris Color and Tone in Premiere works really well for grading.  Even with the low bandwidth this video in 16bit PSD from Lightroom is stunning when compared with AVCHD 4:2:0 and possibly worth the investment in a superwide/fisheye/anamorph. 

I almost feel like a real film maker.     

[N/A]

Regarding crop factor, for tight shots it can be a pain. But for general shoots, and shooting with two or more cameras, its actually somewhat convenient to have some distance between camera and subject. So really only need two lenses now as videographers: a wide angle and a 35mm. 5x for either is more than enough zoom for most cases. If shooting for scope look, just use a 1088x480 rez.

Dolly mode is really handy as well. I wish I would've had that feature before raw.

[Edgar Matos]

Hi guys. I have been playing with the raw function since it became available. I found it very interesting. So this time I decided to play with the frame rate, some of you already know it is a problem to shot moving objects a 12fps. But if you need landscape shots, work for real estate, do music video etc. shooting at 1536x656 is a very nice option as it has been mentioned before here. But I don't like to sit with my arms crossed doing nothing, so I did another test, and this time the camera behaved much better than I expected. See footage with your own eyes.

I got some pink frames in 3 or 4 shots, but it was very decent. The only test I haven't tried is moire and aliasing. I'll get some test charts, still I think the camera reached the limit of what it can do, but I'm happy.