GoPro CineForm Studio Premium/Pro Settings for 5D3 RAW Video

[DANewman]

Debayering is still unusable. I don't have these issues with pro-res or dnxhd.

Those codecs don't have RAW abilities, so you can't comparing the same thing. 

Add I disagree that the currently demosaicing option aren't usable as is, even for finishing, many do and have done for years.  Of course 5D3 is a lower on the resolution compared with SI-2K, BMCC and Alexa.  HD finishing from >HD RAW source, makes demosaic selection far less of a factor.  All that said, I do want newer demosaicing options, and have been asking for help on that.

One workflow that hasn't been considered.  Using CineForm RAW as your fast ingest and real-time on-line edit format (discarding source RAW,) then doing a lossless project trim (thinking Adobe PPro here), then converting only these sources to DNG for an ACR demosaic. This is very like developing CineForm/ProRES/Whatever to DPX for an old school finish.  Really Adobe should be supporting native CineForm RAW, as then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[iaremrsir]

Debayering is still unusable. I don't have these issues with pro-res or dnxhd.

This might be the temporary solution to this problem until new debayer options are added to CF Studio.

I don't consider applying the demosaic as a necesary part of RAW. Consider the Protune CAM_RAW mode on GoPro HERO3 Black Edition (something I worked on,) that is about as raw as you can get in an H.264 file.  All the demosaic is applied in camera, but color matrix and white balance are applied in post, just like classic uncompressed RAW.

If there is enough interest, I will enable YUV or 444 development, without baking the color.  The only reason you might like 4:2:2 RAW, is that could run on the freely distributed GoPro CineForm Studio, just like Protune CAM_RAW works for GoPro users today.

But until then, Resolve debayer works well enough for most.

One workflow that hasn't been considered.  Using CineForm RAW as your fast ingest and real-time on-line edit format (discarding source RAW,) then doing a lossless project trim (thinking Adobe PPro here), then converting only these sources to DNG for an ACR demosaic. This is very like developing CineForm/ProRES/Whatever to DPX for an old school finish.  Really Adobe should be supporting native CineForm RAW, as then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

And this sounds awesome as well. I never thought of round-tripping back to DNGs. Is this already possible with CF2DPX? Or will a new tool have to be developed?

[Joachim Buambeki]

Really Adobe should be supporting native CineForm RAW, as then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Adobe has apparently ZERO interest in doing that. Maybe you (as someone whose word might have some weight) could jump in to help those guys understand (good luck!).
Even if they do, it will most likely take like three iterations from now on (starting at the upcoming CC) to get it implemented... :-(

[moswanted]

TL, DR: Same problem as fatpig, no output with just cineform raw.
Installed Cineform Decoder Update: http://cineform.com/gopro-cineform-decoder
Cineform found update immediately after (1.3.2.170), installed update, finally worked.

Hey guys, extremely new to all of this, but had the same problem as fatpig and others: 422 worked, but just Cineform RAW didn't create any output file.

As Dan suggested, I tried looking for the bug within Cineform Studio itself, took a normal MP4-video and tried to convert it in Cineform Studio Free. Didn't work, progress bar immediately stopped at 0%, wihtout crashing though. Just didn't do anything. Apparently a lot of ppl have this problem without an obvious solution.

So some ppl suggestes updating Cineform Studio free, but mine was already at the newest version 1.3.2.169. One post suggested, updating the Cineform Decoders aka the former Neo Player: http://cineform.com/gopro-cineform-decoder

Strange thing then: I updated the decoders, immediately after updating, the Cineform Studio update service found an update (1.3.2.170, but the Premium version). Downloaded and installed the Premium, transcoding within Cineform Studio still didn't work, but now it worked within RAWanizer. Win7 64bit here, hope this is of any help.

@DAN: thank you for all your efforts. it is beyond appreciated.

[driftwood]

Im currently ripping the RAW to dng using ML's raw2dng, open adobe after effects - then using 16bit colourspace and project under AE, import 'multiple files' select first DNG from whichever folder you want to import clip from (which then subsequently opens Adobe beta 8.1 acr), here apply correction, exposure, etc... settings which are then applied automatically to all your following alphabetical DNGs during the import,  Interpret footage to 23.976 (24 ie whatever fps was recorded), then 'remember Interpretation', then apply interp across all your selected multiple DNG imported sequential files, then make a 'New Comp from Selection', under the Comp menu checkbox 'sequence layers' and 'overlap' and choose '0:00:00:00' so they DON'T overlap (all the files are instantly comp'd sequentially - check fades OFF, then render the comp using Best Settings, Output module make a Cineform RAW setting and save it as 'Cineform lossless' or whatever (as pictured below), make an 'output to' filename of the comp and render away. Its not too bad :-)

 

[1%]

I might try some way to round trip it... but that’s exactly what I want to do, throw away the raw for one solid grade-able video.

I tried batch converting with rawanizer or command line. MPC is playing it back like shown.

[DANewman]

You are the man !! Thanks so much!
what can i do about the black level?

The black is set for the 5D3, maybe like fps, that is missing for the 5D2.  I could add a switch for overriding or setting the black and white levels.

[DANewman]

... I never thought of round-tripping back to DNGs. Is this already possible with CF2DPX? Or will a new tool have to be developed?

A new tool. Going back to DNG would be easy, doing so with the correct metadata including user image corrections would be way cooler and harder to do.

[DANewman]

TL, DR: Same problem as fatpig, ...

@DAN: thank you for all your efforts. it is beyond appreciated.

Thank you.  From your post it wasn't clear if you solved your issue.  Fatpig's issue is solved with v1.03; is there an action that will help you?

[DANewman]

You are the man !! Thanks so much!
what can i do about the black level?

The 5D2 is providing a default black level, and looking at your sample clip, the black level seems okay.  What adjustments on the transcode do you want, particularly as you can change anything in post if the data is not clipped

[fatpig]

the missing fps on 5DII are supposed to be my fault, because of some wrong handling with the hack. I heard if done right, the 5D does write the correct fps in the file-

black level switch would be great, also I dont know where to look up the black level for each camera

[a1ex]

In the footer of a raw file, or in the exif info of a DNG from raw2dng. The value is not constant (it's somewhere around 1024, 2048, sometimes in-between).

[kevperry]

I am on a Mac ....and This is THE easiest working workflow for me at the  moment for ML raw.    Using VMware fusion,  I transcode from ml raw right to cineform raw using RAWanizer.        Then on the Mac side I use Cineform Studio Premium to correct the raw files.  You don't even have to save or render!!!  The changes show up real time in Premiere, FCPx,  Filmconvert Pro....the cineform Raw files play in just about anything.

I wish Resolve could edit the cineform raw metadata.....the changes made in Cineform Studio don't show up there.   Looks like it just ignores the raw metadata altogether.

  Thanks for your work Dan!

[Yaros525]

Hello David,

RAW2GPCF v1.03 gives me an error on start: The application has failed to start because the side by side configuration is incorrect please see the application event log or use the command line sxstrace.exe tool for more detail.

While previous versions still working perfectly fine. I'm at Win7 Pro x64 this time )
What I tried is to uninstall and reinstall all VC++ packages in chronological order, but for no effect.

Thank you, Cineform RAW in Resolve (mov container) is pure gold.

[DANewman]

RAW2GPCF v1.03 gives me an error on start: The application has failed to start because the side by side configuration is incorrect please see the application event log or use the command line sxstrace.exe tool for more detail.
...
Thank you, Cineform RAW in Resolve (mov container) is pure gold.

Thank you.

Yesterday's build was from a different system, maybe using the wrong redist components. 

Today's build is from my home system used to build the earlier revisions.
http://miscdata.com/ML/RAW2GPCFv104.zip

This added black and white levels controls, -blX and -wlX.

e.g. -bl1000 would ignore the metadata and use 1000 as the black level.

[DANewman]

I wish Resolve could edit the cineform raw metadata.....the changes made in Cineform Studio don't show up there.   Looks like it just ignores the raw metadata altogether.

  Thanks for your work Dan!

We do have a hack for that, but it prevents you using the Resolve demosaic. 

[kevperry]

Interesting!  Where can I get the hack  for osx?

[DANewman]

Interesting!  Where can I get the hack  for osx?

Sorry just like this tool the hack is still PC only, but closer to addressing that.

[Brunos]

Hi guys, does anyone have a ProTune LUT to add to Resolve? I found a CineStyle one here (http://desktopvideoguy.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/LUT) which is supposedly similar to ProTune, but skintones tend to start off very gray. I tried to make my own but have found that it's very hard (impossible?) to make one which works well in different lighting conditions.

[advent2]

Wow! thanks , after installing 1.04 it finally worked for me
Pritty amazing ..thanks

Question .when I put the file in premiere.. it plays. now I want to change raw parameters.. I right click on the file, select Source Settings.. and Go Pro studio opens. I can do differnt changes there.. but the only way out is to convert to mp4 . Is this so or I can get those settings to Premiere without recoding to mp4? thanks!!!!


OOPS got it solved it just updates the video within few seconds on the timeline!once again, thanks!

[fatpig]

Does this also work with a dng sequence?

[DANewman]

Does this also work with a dng sequence?

I think you are talking about the black level switches.  Yes it should, as that feature already existing with DPX2CF that ships with Premium.  RAW2GPCF doesn't need to work with DNG files.

[DANewman]

Wow! thanks , after installing 1.04 it finally worked for me
Pritty amazing ..thanks

Question .when I put the file in premiere.. it plays. now I want to change raw parameters.. I right click on the file, select Source Settings.. and Go Pro studio opens. I can do differnt changes there.. but the only way out is to convert to mp4 . Is this so or I can get those settings to Premiere without recoding to mp4? thanks!!!!


OOPS got it solved it just updates the video within few seconds on the timeline!once again, thanks!

Yes Premiere will cache frames for a while, can be annoying, but it is minor.  Sometimes switching playback resolution will implemently flush the old cache frames.  We requested cache control via the Adobe API for years, they haven't been all that interested.  Occassionally a cached frame will stick, a bug new to CS6, so for exports with recent metadata changes in Studio, restart Premiere.

[DANewman]

Hi guys, does anyone have a ProTune LUT to add to Resolve? I found a CineStyle one here (http://desktopvideoguy.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/LUT) which is supposedly similar to ProTune, but skintones tend to start off very gray. I tried to make my own but have found that it's very hard (impossible?) to make one which works well in different lighting conditions.

Tricky.  LUTs are best for converting calibrated images to a creative look, but the issue with Resolve is it is ignoring all the calibration data like white balance and color matrix.  While you can bake the color matrix into a LUT, you can't do that for white balance, which needs to be performed on the linear light image underneath/before the LUT/color matrix.

[Yaros525]

Hi,
version 1.04 works perfectly fine, thanks!
However, I can't seem to understand how black and white levels controls work. What's default setting for 5DMkII raw?
Is it normalized to [0...1023] instead of [1024...15000] ?

In Cineform Studio (EDIT):
When I set -wl1024 it looks fine.
When I set -wl1280 it looks contrasty with green cast.
When I set -wl900 it looks uncontrasty with magenta cast. (why shadows raised while i've altered white level?)

As for -blX , it just doesn't do anything for me. -bl0 looks the same as -bl1024.

Can you clarify, thanks!