Uncompressed 14-bit RAW video testing - 5D Mark III

[stevethornton]

Walter Schulz wrote: "Use your OS (Windows or OS X) if you want to apply ExFAT file system to your CF-card."

This has never worked for me. I get the same thing others are reporting about. I re-formatted all of the cards using SDFormatter, and the "Problem" went away. I thought like Walter it was the same, but not for me. This is on a Windows 7 computer.

This is the link for SDFormatter:
https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/

Steve Thornton

[Walter Schulz]

Using W7 and cards between 8 and 32 GB on 650D: No problem.

[CineRAW]

@anDyIII

Did you get HDMI out from 1.1.3 version?

[wicq]

Hello,I need HELP please. First let me tell you a little background before  tell my problem.  I have been using Magic Lantern  almost 2 years now, first with the canon t5i/700D, this week I bought the 5D mark iii and everything works perfect , well still testing , not yet having a CF card. So Im experienced using ML. I said about using 2 cameras so you know is not an ML version problem or camera problem. When  I have the MLV or RAW file and I check them in MlRawViewer(dont matter the version) it looks Flat , like it is supposed to look, right?
I like Log C and Log 8 more, but when exporting the DNG sequence looks already graded, the sequence even has vignetting. When I check the DNG files, the thumbail previews look flat too , but when open the sequence with windows photo visualizator, Photoshop and AE, it looks already graded like I said. It`s weird when open a DNG image in the windows photo visualizator cause while is opening it first looks flat for  miliseconds and then go totally graded. I have this issue for almost 2 years, I havent found any solution. What is the purpose to record in Raw in order to get full quality and a flat look , if at the end it throws already graded sequences. I have seen on youtube videos where they show the ungraded footage made with ML and then the grade footage. How can i export the DNG sequence in a flat look? What do I have to do to achieve that? Please Help.
Im on windows by the way, thanks in advance.

[DeafEyeJedi]

Care to share some DNG samples or let alone upload a short MLV if you can @wicq?

[wicq]

hi DeafEyeJedi, sure but it`s a Raw file http://www.mediafire.com/file/ap4bhruxq7473tz/M03-1429.rar  , thanks in advance

[extremelypoorfilmaker]

@wicq

Sorry, but I don't understand.. On my end the footage you uploaded looks fine: As a normal linear .dng would look once extracted from the raw files.

Magic Lantern raw files are not supposed to look flat. Because they are Linear .dngs.

mlrawviewer gives you the option to export your raw files or mlv files either in a LINEAR sequence of .dngs OR, an .MOV file with a log curve applied to it (I presume)


This Is a Lightweight jpeg processed through Lightrom from the raw file you provided No color correction / grading applied.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3TsoW-UO16sSUxGWjRYN2w2b2s/view?usp=sharing

This is another lightweight jpeg generated from the same file BUT trying to give it a "flat" look

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3TsoW-UO16sYm41N2MtSFBVMTA/view?usp=sharing

This is the same image as above BUT with me fucking about in lightroom in order to give it some sort of "look"

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3TsoW-UO16sRVFyMEFVNkl3TjQ/view?usp=sharing



This two files instead, are screengrab taken from 2 .MOV files that I have rendered from your raw file straight to .MOV applying a a log curve (Hope that's the right term)

Log-C

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3TsoW-UO16sQ3lTOTNiSGVRNk0/view?usp=sharing

Rec-709

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3TsoW-UO16seFgzeDVBWURGWmc/view?usp=sharing

I don't see nothing wrong with your files, the vignetting it's most probably caused by the lens.

Maybe this articles will help you a bit?

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2013/06/raw-is-not-log-log-is-not-raw-they-are-very-different-things/
https://prolost.com/blog/rawvslog

Because, if you want "raw with log" Start saving up and get yourself an Arri, Red or Sony F55 / 65

hope this help

[wicq]

Hi extremelypoorfilmaker, yes I have been reading lots of forums about getting a flat look from RAW and I did realize that the Raw  file is not flat, mlrawviewer even states that they output only sRGB wich is one of the profiles that you can check in this application and is exactly what it looks  when exporting DNGs, but I found this video 

this guy turns his Raw file into flat look using ACR in AE, apart to apply changes to his footage, he uses VisionLOG profile, which is what it gives the final flat look. I read lots of forums about VisionLog profile for ACR and it is suppose to be a free profile, but they dont offer it in their website anymore, Can someone please share it? I think is very important to have flat Raw so we can color grade properly. Thank you extremelypoorfilmaker for taking the time to test my footage, and thanks to the forum in advance for the help. Best.
UPDATE: just check in mlrawviewer  that MOV does export the flat look, but I think MOV cant be color grade as advance as DNGs, I mean I think MOV doesnt  store high dinamic range  like DNGs do. Would it be possible for someone to create an application that allows to export DNGs from RAW/MLV with the selected profile ?

[hyalinejim]

The best solution for log with Magic Lantern is Cinelog, which you can purchase and use in ACR.

There is also a way to get log transcodes from Resolve if you set up your colour management correctly, but I find the quality from ACR is slightly better and worth the incredibly long processing times.

[wicq]

hi hyalinejim, thanks for the help. yes i already find the way to convert the DNG sequence to a flat look with ACR so in the end I end up having my flat look DNG sequence that I then can color grade  in  speedgrade or whatever software there is.
This is what I get when exporting with mlrawviewer   http://www.mediafire.com/file/3bolc5g35kbsa03/M03-1429_000000.dng
and this is the flat image I get now  http://www.mediafire.com/file/lxam2wfav8mww51/M03-142900000.dng
Sorry that mediafire cant preview DNG images so you will have to download them. See the huge difference , now it`s usable for color grading. Vignetting , by the way, is cause  for the Fotga ND filter I use.

[wicq]

Thanks DeafEyeJedi for the Message showing what cinelog-C can do 

[DeafEyeJedi]

Thanks DeafEyeJedi for the Message showing what cinelog-C can do 

Adobe Standard:


Cinelog DCP:


Cinelog Rec709:


Cinelog Rec709 + pushing its limits in ACR:

[wicq]

Hello, so to close this topic  let me see if I understood correctly. There is no aplication that export direclty the RAW with a Log applied right? I  mean we have to work around  by  importing the already  "graded" exported sequence from MLRAWVIEWER or RAW2CDNG   to  photoshop and apply a flat  profile in order to have the flat look that then you can graded in premier,resolve or speedgrade , right? Im asking because some guy on youtube claims that his footage is exported with a flat look directly from MLRAWVIEWER. I know for a fact that you can export your RAW/MLV files  with a flat  log  but only in MOV prores format.

Another topic, I recently bought my first CF card lexar 64GB 1066x, amazing now I have 1080p 24fps continously record in Raw/MLV format, truly amazing, I already  format the card  to exFAT(I was scared in the process) but everything turned  right , but I discover a bug or 3. When recording I discover the amount of  GB left in the card  it`s not updated, I mean it shows for example 59.6GB and after recording RAW/MLV for example 5 minutes, that number doesnt decrease, so I dont know how much space I have left in the CF Card. Also after formatting to exfat , the file manager shows me wrong file sizes, for example I record 2 files , one in raw and one in MLV till the   card runs out but in file manager it shows me The MLV  size is 2.95GB and the Raw File is 365MB while in reality , on windows, the MLV file is 9GB and the RAW file is 46GB. the first bug, the one that doesnt update how many space  I have left in the card is "solved" by restarting the camera, the Bug  in the file manager  doesnt have a solution. Also, since the card is full I have a huge  text in the screen that says  Card 1 full that never dissapear , not sure if this is Magic Lantern related, But when have the Card    full , I cant play  the Raw/MLV files, I click play and it tells me  there is no image, this is a third BUG. this third Bug doesnt happend when the card is not full, I record some raw/mlv files and i can play then as long the card is not full.  I hope these Bugs can be solved , thanks in advance, by the way im using lates ML version for 5d mark iii 1.2.3. Thanks for Magic Lantern

[Frank7D]

wicq:
"...so I dont know how much space I have left in the CF Card"

The only way I know is to turn the camera off and on again. Then the card space will read correctly.

[Walter Schulz]

Reported file manager issue some time ago: https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/issues/2151/filemanager-shows-wrong-file-size-for

[wicq]

Frank7D , yes I know that is the only way to update and know how much space I have left on the CF card, I mentioned it  in my previous post. I just wanted to point it out so it might get  solved  in future releases.

[wicq]

Walter Schulz, I have been using ML for almost 2 years  with the t5i but  as a new user  of the 5d mark iii with a cf card and 1080p continuous raw and ML 1.2.3 , I say all these little "bugs" are new to me. I didnt have any bug in my older canon , but with my new canon , i just testing and experience this little Bugs, i dont even consider them bugs but little things to fix in future releases. that issue reported in the link you provide talks about the 4GB size files, so let me add to this  and say that this also happens to more than 4GB files with a CF card with exFAT system. and also the other issues I reported in my previous long comment.

[a1ex]

Are you saying these bugs are present on 5D3, but not on T5i/700D (or any other model)? I highly doubt it.

They all require reverse engineering to fix.

[wicq]

Hello Alex, I sold my t5i like 2 months ago, but i dont remember to have any  of those issues on the t5i, everytime I recorder raw(that by the way i could only record 12 seconds tops at  20fps and 17xx X 7xx) I always see the card size  updating, never had problems to play raw/mlv  files on camera so   yes, i  didnt had those issues on the t5i, I mean I didnt have any issue at all with the t5i, the only "issue" i had with the t5i is the fact that i only could record RAW/MLV for 12 seconds lowering the fps and not 1080p, that was not good but it`s what I had, I know that is not ML related but camera realted and that is why I purchased the 5d Mark iii. These issues found in the 5d mark iii dont really bother me , I just wanted to pointed them out in case they werent pointed out but as Walter Schulz said with a link, the file manager size card issue was report but 3 years ago.

[extremelypoorfilmaker]

Hello, so to close this topic  let me see if I understood correctly. There is no aplication that export direclty the RAW with a Log applied right? I  mean we have to work around  by  importing the already  "graded" exported sequence from MLRAWVIEWER or RAW2CDNG   to  photoshop and apply a flat  profile in order to have the flat look that then you can graded in premier,resolve or speedgrade , right? Im asking because some guy on youtube claims that his footage is exported with a flat look directly from MLRAWVIEWER. I know for a fact that you can export your RAW/MLV files  with a flat  log  but only in MOV prores format.

Why would you make your life so complicated to have a "flat look"? you do not need to have a flat look in order to grade/correct your .dngs! All the info you need it's there, regardless of flat profile OR NOT!

If having a "flat profile" it's so vital for you, why do you bother with any of the adobe products in the first place? Edit in resolve and your problem are all solved! Only make sure to export 16bit maximised .dngs using one of the many converters that a lot of great people have created, or even quicker, learn to work with .mlv using the mlv FUSE.

In davinci resolve, it's native camera raw plug-in, in the color page, allows you to choose between: 3 different color spaces and 5 different gamma ranges!

want this Log so much? Abandon magic lantern and switch to Sony.

If working with log footage it's so vital for you, unfortunately you are stuck with exporting .MOV files with a log profile applied to them. Otherwise, seriously, it's counterproductive to import your sequences in adobe camera raw, "flatten them" and export them again.

[DeafEyeJedi]

Sounds like Smart Import 2 could be your best friend @wicq!

[reddeercity]

If working with log footage it's so vital for you, unfortunately you are stuck with exporting .MOV files with a log profile applied to them. Otherwise, seriously, it's counterproductive to import your sequences in adobe camera raw, "flatten them" and export them again.

Really ! you can't be serious right ? 
ACR camera raw is the best hands down , anything else is just a poor attempt at raw/color adjustment (thou MLVProducer is the closes I seen to ACR)
And Yes Apple ProRes is the way to go , In fact I backup All my MLV Raw to ProRes4444XQ(linear) (MAC) to Log-C (on PC ProRes4444, Cineform RGB ) then de-log to rec709/sRGB etc..
Save about 35% on storage , The biggest advantage to Flat/Log processing is you are not rendering Black which is large data plus you increase your dynamic range by 1 to 2 stops of light.
if you do it right you should have a perfectly balance image (no clipping, in legal color range). I could go on and on about the benefits of LOG workflow (there's many thread on the matter)
I'll end with it take no longer to work in LOG space then rec709 with far better results.
 
@wicq it looks like your on Windows right ? if so I Highly Recommend MLVProducer  as I said its the closes to A.E. ACR . You can batch export LOG Tiff's, ProRes,DNxHD-Mov', Jpeg, PNG's .
This is a far better option then Blackmagic Resolve , as is simpler and has better Camera Raw adjustments

[wicq]

@extremelypoorfilmaker, it`s not that is so vital to get a flat look. the thing is that when I record with the 5d mark iii and then play, what I record already looks flat  in camera, no matter if I changed  the picture style, no matter if I exagerate saturation, it always looks the same on camera, it looks FLAT ON CAMERA. so why when exporting with the apps  they looks graded, that is something that always bugged me  when I used my previous canon t5i, I mean it makes no sense that on camera looks flat but the file play on my computer looks graded. By the way MLRAWVIEWER doesnt export 16bit , to my knowledge only RAW2CDNG export to 16bit. Another point you make is about davinci resolve. About 2 years ago when i started to use ML on my t5i , I also discover Davinci resolve that when watching videos on youtube on what you can make with the version  of the app at that time , was amazing, but the reality hit me hard when I discover that it was so dumb software that I have to take like 4 steps just to open a sequence, also it was so slow, im talking about 2 years ago version, I dont know  how is today. So at that time I also discover another app, speed grade, this software was perfect PERFECT very fast with my cheap Nvidia 250gt, seriously FAST, not like that davinci crap, but im talking about Davinci resolve because I do know   Davinci opens Raw directly. I havent try with newer versions of Davinci resolve so my question is, can I use Davinci resolve to import the ML RAW file directly without any convertion? Im sure that recently versions of Davinci Resolve are far less complicated and faster. Before switch to sony I ADD(not switch) black magic ursa mini 4.6, I think Sony doesnt produce Raw, you know I will never come back to codec file formats.

@reddeercity, yes im on windows 7, thanks for the advice, already downloading that app and I will try it.

@DeafEyeJedi, cheking your vimeo video for SmartImport2 ACR

Thanks Guys

[dmilligan]

You are making the mistake of assuming the way the footage "looks" (i.e. "flat" vs "graded") is dependent upon the raw data that is actually there. This is just not true. It is raw data straight off the sensor. You cannot "see" this raw data directly. It must be "developed" before you can even see it.

In camera, ML is doing some simple processing to "develop" the raw data so you can see it. Whatever ML does by default is producing what you would call a "flat look". Then you bring the (exactly the same) data into ACR or whatever on the computer. It uses some default set of parameters to "develop" that raw data to display it to you. Obviously it's algorithms and defaults are different from ML resulting in a different "look". It's still the original raw data being displayed, it has just been processed differently. It doesn't matter that it doesn't look "flat". Simply adjust the raw development parameters to your liking. When you adjust ACR sliders or whatever, the original raw data is reprocessed from scratch. You are not re-grading an already graded image as you seem to think, rather you are starting with some default set of "grading parameters" and modifying them to your liking. Whenever you adjust these parameter the image gets reprocessed from the original raw data (which is more or less impossible to view directly, well, you could but it would appear very dark, it's linear, and there would be a strange looking color grid pattern, the bayer CFA).

[wicq]

@dmilligan, thanks for that explanation, as I started writing about this few days ago to learn  and know what is what, now I have a much more clear concept about ML raw and post processing, thanks   all of you  guys cause now I know exactly what I needed to know and  now I know what to do, thank you very much and thanks Magic Lantern team For developing such an amazing tool