Author Topic: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)  (Read 451809 times)

albert-e

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #200 on: June 10, 2013, 01:09:22 AM »
Does anyone know if this CF to IDE mapping table will work? Sourcehttp://www.natrium42.com/blog/?p=39

CF Socket | Pin HDD Pin | Function
1    GND    GND
2    11    D3
3    9    D4
4    7    D5
5    5    D6
6    3    D7
7    37    ~CS0
8    N/C    A10
9    N/C    ~ATA SEL
10    N/C    A9
11    N/C    A8
12    N/C    A7
13    N/C    VCC
14    N/C    A6
15    N/C    A5
16    N/C    A4
17    N/C    A3
18    36    A2
19    33    A1
20    35    A0
21    17    D0
22    15    D1
23    13    D2
24    32    ~IOCS16
25    N/C    ~CD2
26    N/C    ~CD1
27    10    D11
28    12    D12
29    14    D13
30    16    D14
31    18    D15
32    38    ~CS1
33    N/C    ~VS1
34    25    ~IORD
35    23    ~IOWR
36    N/C    ~WE
37    31    INTRQ
38    N/C    VCC
39    28    ~CSEL
40    N/C    ~VS2
41    1    ~RESET
42    27    IORDY
43    21    DMARQ
44    29    ~DMACK
45    39    ~DASP
46    34    ~PDIAG
47    4    D8
48    6    D9
49    8    D10
50    GND    GND

The remaining IDE pins are connected as follows:

GND: 2, 19, 22, 24, 26, 30, 40, 43
VCC: 41, 42
N/C: 20, 44

Should work. Tied pin 9 to ground to act as master, if you left it floating, it's a slave so it will not be recognized.  Before tying to GND make sure it is not tied to VCC. To act as a master it must be tied to GND. WARNING: Caution, if you measure any voltage higher than GND potential, leave it and we'll investigate.

albert-e

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #201 on: June 10, 2013, 01:35:00 AM »
Hi  g3ggo I've been testing with a CF to ZIF adapter that has IDE, then from IDE to SATA via a converter, then to a Kingston 64gb SSD and WD 160GB HD, my results are :


When Zif/Ide adapter is powered : SSD :

props at : 0x000000000
cbr at :0x00AA304C

When ZIF/IDE adapter is not powered :SSD

props at : 0x000000000
cbr  at:0x00AA311C


When Zif/Ide adapter is powered : WD 160GB HD :

props at : 0x000000000
cbr at :0x00AA30BC

When ZIF/IDE adapter is not powered :WD 160GB HD

props at : 0x000000000
cbr  at:0x00AA2F8C

So it looks like the camera is seeing the devices, time for some dirty hacks to enable the camera to really use them now ;)


I also tried also to get windows to see all the above by using a USB CF card reader it didn't see anything, and the active light didn't light up on the reader.

I'm not trying to discourage you but a "CF-TO-IDE-TO-SATA", is not the right approach. Another member "Pascalc" was the better approach I think. Just a CF-HHD adapter, for the simple reason explain in COMPACT FLASH SPECIFICATIONS as stated:
"4.2 Electrical Description
The CompactFlash Storage Card functions in three basic modes: 1) PC Card ATA using I/O Mode, 2) PC Card ATA using Memory Mode and 3) True IDE Mode, which is compatible with most disk drives. CompactFlash Storage Cards are required to support all three modes. The CF+ Cards normally function in the first and second modes, however they can optionally function in True IDE mode. The configuration of the CompactFlash Card shall be controlled using the standard PCMCIA configuration registers starting at address 200h in the Attribute Memory space of the storage card or for True IDE Mode, pin 9 being grounded. The configuration of the CF+ Card shall be controlled using configuration registers starting at the address defined in the Configuration Tuple (CISTPL_CONFIG) in the Attribute Memory space of the CF+ Card."

If you want more information, here's the link: http://rumkin.com/reference/aquapad/media/cfspc3_0.pdf

I'm just steering you in the right direction. Mentioned CF-TO-IDE or CF-TO-SATA adapters would not work too as those adapters function to use a Compact Flash as a replacement to HDD or SATA. Our goal is the other way around, use a HDD as a replacement to CF. HDD to SATA is the next goal, and I don't know if it is viable... IDE SSD maybe as they have faster speed that HD speed. I would encourage you to contemplate on the CF ZIP-HDD. Make sure pin 9 on the IDE pin is grounded to act as a master, if left floating it will act as a slave and it will not be recognized at all.  Before tying to GND make sure it is not tied to VCC. To act as a master it must be tied to GND. WARNING: Caution, if you measure any voltage higher than GND potential, leave it and we'll investigate. Good luck and good work. Keep on hacking, I can see the light. Just clarifying guys.


albert-e

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #202 on: June 10, 2013, 01:40:57 AM »
Intentional... a mistake

albert-e

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #203 on: June 10, 2013, 02:21:44 AM »
@g3gg0
As english is not my native language, I'm not sure to understand all what you means. Sorry I the answer is not what you was expecting.

Yes the camera boots but like if there was no card instead.

The adapter is not working in the camera, but works in the computer with Lexar CF usb3 reader. I'm wondering why.
I can't test/check the card outside with ML because the module is impossible to load, err 70, and without module, no card test line in the menu.

Pascalc, on your IDE connector, is pin 9 left floating? Measure it with a voltmeter, check the other CF side too, if it is floating, then it is configured as a slave. Before tying to GND make sure it is not tied to VCC. To act as a master it must be tied to GND. WARNING: Caution, if you measure any voltage higher than GND potential, leave it and we'll investigate.

Redrocks

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #204 on: June 10, 2013, 05:25:30 AM »
I'm sure the coders will work with you Albert, but they are being pulled in every direction at the moment trying to refine the basic raw code.

mogs

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #205 on: June 10, 2013, 06:48:36 AM »
Pascalc, on your IDE connector, is pin 9 left floating? Measure it with a voltmeter, check the other CF side too, if it is floating, then it is configured as a slave. Before tying to GND make sure it is not tied to VCC. To act as a master it must be tied to GND. WARNING: Caution, if you measure any voltage higher than GND potential, leave it and we'll investigate.

Am I missing something here?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe pin 9 is the master/slave select.

Pin 9 on the CF connector is ~ATA SEL, should be grounded by the host during power up to enable True IDE mode (i.e. to inform the CF Card that it's now in IDE mode).  I would not recommend grounding this on your adapter, as it would potentially load up the pin should the host try to set it high.

mogs

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #206 on: June 10, 2013, 06:58:12 AM »
Pin 39 on the CF connector is ~CSEL for Master/Slave select, however this is fed through from the CF host to the IDE device so I wouldn't imagine you need to manually set this.

Also a drive configured with jumpers should ignore the state of this line regardless.

pascalc

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #207 on: June 10, 2013, 11:14:55 AM »
As I touched the limits of my (small) competences (I'm just a documentary filmmaker) I talked to an electronic company able to make prototypes. They say that what we are trying to do is possible but they need the exact electrical specs of the cf host in 5D3. Do someone know where to find that ?

albert-e

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #208 on: June 10, 2013, 01:58:27 PM »
Am I missing something here?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe pin 9 is the master/slave select.

Pin 9 on the CF connector is ~ATA SEL, should be grounded by the host during power up to enable True IDE mode (i.e. to inform the CF Card that it's now in IDE mode).  I would not recommend grounding this on your adapter, as it would potentially load up the pin should the host try to set it high.

Yes, you are right "Moog", I meant to say pin 39 (CSEL) not pin 9 (ASEL). It usually the host responsibility that this input pin is at low potential (GND) in TRUE IDE mode. As stated in 4.2 of CF Specifications: "The configuration of the CompactFlash Card shall be controlled using the standard PCMCIA configuration registers starting at address 200h in the Attribute Memory space of the storage card or for True IDE Mode, pin 9 being grounded."

Thanks for correcting me.

albert-e

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #209 on: June 10, 2013, 02:07:56 PM »
Pin 39 on the CF connector is ~CSEL for Master/Slave select, however this is fed through from the CF host to the IDE device so I wouldn't imagine you need to manually set this.

Also a drive configured with jumpers should ignore the state of this line regardless.

See my previous post. Thanks.

I just want to clarify something here. This project must be thoroughly planned and thought out, it is not "trivial" as it seems to be. It is a complicated project if pushed through. That is why, this project has to have some backing of people who have the knowledge and experience, like, the ML developer team...combined together they have all experiences (> 100 years experience) in their own fields of expertise: photography, software, electronics engineers and specialist. I hope to clarify these matters. That's all I'm saying. If we need answers, we share our experiences with others. Thanks ML team and supporters. But it can be done. May the force be with you. I remain.

Now, my question "Moog", in the Canon/ML firmware does the CF functions as a TRUE IDE mode (as a Compact Flash storage card) as in CF specifications, as you and the others expected?

g3gg0

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #210 on: June 10, 2013, 03:42:22 PM »
this:

i already expected this result.
the last few days i read a lot about CF card specification and reversed the parts of the camera that interact with CF.
i think i have a plan what we would have to patch to make it working.

1. CF is reset
2. CIS structure is read and parsed (needs to be patched)
 - RotatingDeviceInfo
 - MakerAndVersionTuple
 - ConfigurationTuple
 - WriteProtectTuple
3. Reconfigures the card for I/O Mapped Operation Mode (needs to be patched)
4. partition table is read and checked for 0x55AA at the end
5. first partition is checked for a supported type (1,4,5,6,7,B,C,E)
6. device is available


which camera model do you use?

can you run this plugin with your disk attached?
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5471.msg36699#msg36699
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albert-e

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #211 on: June 10, 2013, 04:30:30 PM »
this:

Ah, Okay, I missed that one. The path firmware was for 5D3 cameras.? I'll try it when my Canon 50D (was there a parallel patch firmware for 50D too?) arrives and this arrives, http://www.ebay.ca/itm/380396358222?item=380396358222&autorefresh=true. I have a Canon 60D and a Canon 7D, I know there are limitations on these cameras. 5D3 is out of reach for me at this time. I would like a stable raw 1270x720 unlimited frames on Canon 50D. That's the goal too?

To those members who have interests in this, try the it (the patch) with the camera, 5D3, I think?. And report back to the forum, this would be very, very helpful in terms of pushing through with this project. Your dreams are mine too. :-)

deleted.acct.20132206

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #212 on: June 10, 2013, 04:46:54 PM »
@g3gg0 - I will test it tomorrow with 5D3 and give Feedback!
Good is good, but better carries it!

5D3shooter

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #213 on: June 10, 2013, 07:43:25 PM »
Hey everyone, I just jumped on the 5D3 RAW wagon too!  Anyways, I just wanted to let you know I got my guys in China looking for that CF>IDE adapter.  If they can find it or make it I'll let you guys know. 

albert-e

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #214 on: June 10, 2013, 09:12:34 PM »
@g3gg0 - I will test it tomorrow with 5D3 and give Feedback!

Great, looking forward to your feedback.

g3gg0

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #215 on: June 10, 2013, 10:01:15 PM »
okay cool.

it is important that the adapter will behave like a CF card by providing CIS structure and accepting IDE commands.
the ATA_SEL pin isnt asserted - ATA commands are issued through some mapping.
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mogs

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #216 on: June 10, 2013, 10:11:44 PM »
See my previous post. Thanks.

I just want to clarify something here. This project must be thoroughly planned and thought out, it is not "trivial" as it seems to be.<snip>

Now, my question "Moog", in the Canon/ML firmware does the CF functions as a TRUE IDE mode (as a Compact Flash storage card) as in CF specifications, as you and the others expected?

Just so I'm understood; I'm not "expecting" anything here, I'm also not a developer (although I did contribute some code a long time ago).  I do however have experience in electronics design.  I find this project fascinating but my expectations are not unrealistic.

I'm just looking at the problem and making contributions as they come up, not everything I have contributed is in the right direction but I am very careful to qualify my statements when I am unsure of something.  Over the past few days my understanding of the situation has increased greatly, your comments have challenged me to push that further to make sure we're all moving down the right path.

As to your question I'm not able to answer that as I don't have a CF capable camera, but careful observation of pin 9 (~ATA SEL) and 38 (VCC) by someone who does may shed some light on this.  If ~ATA SEL is held low during power up of the card socket then it is in True IDE mode.  This may happen at a different time to the camera power, as it's also possible to power down the CF socket while holding ~ATA SEL low to reconfigure a CF card into IDE mode.

I think g3gg0 may have answered this question better as I'm typing my reply.

hirethestache

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #217 on: June 10, 2013, 11:11:21 PM »
Give me three weeks and you will all be very happy people :)
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heavygrafix

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #218 on: June 11, 2013, 01:05:18 AM »
Give me three weeks and you will all be very happy people :)

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albert-e

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #219 on: June 11, 2013, 01:18:47 AM »
Just so I'm understood; I'm not "expecting" anything here, I'm also not a developer (although I did contribute some code a long time ago).  I do however have experience in electronics design.  I find this project fascinating but my expectations are not unrealistic.

I'm just looking at the problem and making contributions as they come up, not everything I have contributed is in the right direction but I am very careful to qualify my statements when I am unsure of something.  Over the past few days my understanding of the situation has increased greatly, your comments have challenged me to push that further to make sure we're all moving down the right path.

As to your question I'm not able to answer that as I don't have a CF capable camera, but careful observation of pin 9 (~ATA SEL) and 38 (VCC) by someone who does may shed some light on this.  If ~ATA SEL is held low during power up of the card socket then it is in True IDE mode.  This may happen at a different time to the camera power, as it's also possible to power down the CF socket while holding ~ATA SEL low to reconfigure a CF card into IDE mode.

I think g3gg0 may have answered this question better as I'm typing my reply.

We'll all excited about this. "Two heads are better than one", they say... but even better with many rebel heads. :-)

arrinkiiii

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #220 on: June 11, 2013, 02:21:18 AM »
Give me three weeks and you will all be very happy people :)

Let's GOOO   ;D

hirethestache

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #221 on: June 11, 2013, 02:57:30 AM »
Not to be so illusive on my earlier statement, but the engineer I hired for this task has successfully transferred a Hello World file from his computer to an SSD via a USB CF reader.  The interface goes 1.8" Half Slim SATA, 22PIN TO 1.8" CE/ZIF converter board > 40pin 1.8" CE / ZIF SSD HDD to 1.8"  CF 50pin converter adapter...or the other way around. Not too sure, as Im just the financier :P

Anyways, I am currently designing an all-in-one system that would be similar to what you'd see with a field recorder. We're going to be launching our KickStarter once the final prototype has been thoroughly tested. Still waiting on a few parts from China, but things are looking EXTREMELY positive from the information I'm getting from my developer.
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albert-e

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #222 on: June 11, 2013, 04:17:30 AM »
Not to be so illusive on my earlier statement, but the engineer I hired for this task has successfully transferred a Hello World file from his computer to an SSD via a USB CF reader.  The interface goes 1.8" Half Slim SATA, 22PIN TO 1.8" CE/ZIF converter board > 40pin 1.8" CE / ZIF SSD HDD to 1.8"  CF 50pin converter adapter...or the other way around. Not too sure, as Im just the financier :P

Anyways, I am currently designing an all-in-one system that would be similar to what you'd see with a field recorder. We're going to be launching our KickStarter once the final prototype has been thoroughly tested. Still waiting on a few parts from China, but things are looking EXTREMELY positive from the information I'm getting from my developer.

I think there are such peripherals already if I'm not mistaken. Like this: http://www.amazon.ca/Startech-Com-1-8-Inch-Enclosure-SAT1810U2-Silver/dp/B003V4TVB6

Direct SATA, no conversion. However, but I don't know what your project was. So,  I'll consider buying one if needed.

hirethestache

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #223 on: June 11, 2013, 04:31:14 AM »
I think there are such peripherals already if I'm not mistaken. Like this: http://www.amazon.ca/Startech-Com-1-8-Inch-Enclosure-SAT1810U2-Silver/dp/B003V4TVB6

Direct SATA, no conversion. However, but I don't know what your project was. So,  I'll consider buying one if needed.

That device is nothing like what we're working on. When I said USB CF reader, I was implying something to emulate the CF port on a camera:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002PXLQSK/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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akiesels

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Re: CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)
« Reply #224 on: June 11, 2013, 10:06:06 AM »
I heard back from the ES&S Cable folks. 

They are on it!  Check out their double-headed CF cable solution.  It's quite ingenuous: nothing but one-to-one wire mapping.  And then you're free to use your CF card reader of choice (there are tons of these, of course) and connect it to an IDE -> SATA adapter.



If the camera's CF host controller is confirmed to operate in IDE mode, this setup should work without ML software, correct?  In other words, if one were to plug this into their camera and start it normally (with stock Canon firmware), one should be able to format the harddrive and use it to store stills and record H.264 video.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

Alexander