CF-to-SATA hardware interface for RAW recording (fork)

[g3gg0]

http://upload.g3gg0.de/pub_files/cb261038fbe4ce0542c6916157095823/autoexec.bin

can you try this autoexec.bin on 5D3 and tell me what the camera does/says?

[pascalc]

Amazing ! When I turned the camera on, Canon CEO's face appeared on the screen and he told me : "You're on the wrong way Son. Repent and go to buy a C500. Now !". I was trembling but the courage came to me and I was about to answer him that I don't have this huge amount of K€ and that he is the one who stole when he cripple his products but, unfortunately, the camera crashed.



Otherwise, it seems to behave normally except that it's not possible to load the modules.
First time it crashed.
Second time this appeared in the left bottom of the screen

props at : 0x000000000
cbr    at : 0x000000000

and stays there.
When getting out of ML the left part of the scree stays as you can see whatever I do..




An other time it says : please send crash LOG 14 then 15 then up to 21 to ML devs, before turning off by itself.

[[email protected]]

Has anyone tried the multitude of ide to sata adapters out there?

[g3gg0]

Otherwise, it seems to behave normally except that it's not possible to load the modules.
First time it crashed.
Second time this appeared in the left bottom of the screen

you have the CF -> IDE -> SATA converter attached, but no CF media is accesible?
does the CF icon in the top-LCD show up?

loading the module itself isnt the point. just running the menu entry that will print you the device details is important.

[peter.scharff]

Hi  g3ggo I've been testing with a CF to ZIF adapter that has IDE, then from IDE to SATA via a converter, then to a Kingston 64gb SSD and WD 160GB HD, my results are :


When Zif/Ide adapter is powered : SSD :

props at : 0x000000000
cbr at :0x00AA304C

When ZIF/IDE adapter is not powered :SSD

props at : 0x000000000
cbr  at:0x00AA311C


When Zif/Ide adapter is powered : WD 160GB HD :

props at : 0x000000000
cbr at :0x00AA30BC

When ZIF/IDE adapter is not powered :WD 160GB HD

props at : 0x000000000
cbr  at:0x00AA2F8C

So it looks like the camera is seeing the devices, time for some dirty hacks to enable the camera to really use them now


I also tried also to get windows to see all the above by using a USB CF card reader it didn't see anything, and the active light didn't light up on the reader.

[pascalc]

I just have the CF ZIF extender connected to a 32 CF outside. I would like to have this simple thing working before going to more complicated.
Is it a problem that ZIF has only 40 pins to link the 50 pins inside female CF to the outside 50 pins male CF socket ?

[g3gg0]

these numbers say nothing at all, man

the only thing that is important is:
-> Debug -> "Read CF details (MAY CAUSE ERR)"

[hirethestache]

Don't mean to digress from the development chat, but what so you suppose the cost would be to have a manufacturer develop a one-off prototype for this?

[ptunstall]

Don't mean to digress from the development chat, but what so you suppose the cost would be to have a manufacturer develop a one-off prototype for this?

I'm working on that.

[hirethestache]

I'm working on that.

PMed

[Grunf]

No, just lots of patience, some ingenuity, and a couple of CF cards to trash. I know the most likely outcome is a useless adapter...

I strongly recommend using ribbon foil cable instead of discrete wires.

This one, together with custom made re-mapping PCB should do the trick:

http://en.esskabel.de/adapter/datasheet/ada-compactflash-extender-0430fpc-dma/77/

While ordinary flat-ribbon cable might work for PIO-mode, the signal speed is way too high for unshielded wires. The problems with recognizing the external drive might as well be camera not being able to communicate with drive at high speed.

[Samuel H]

^ Yes, I know, but esskabel products are not easy to buy, and others are working on that front too. Right now, I'm just looking for "proof-of-concept" on a CF card reader.

[Grunf]

^ Yes, I know, but esskabel products are not easy to buy, and others are working on that front too. Right now, I'm just looking for "proof-of-concept" on a CF card reader.

I suppose camera checks the capabilities of CF card prior to connecting (in order to recognize older non-UDMA7-capable CF cards. If you can configure your adapter to PIO mode to begin with, it would eliminate one of potential problems during the tests.

[mrwolf]

I hope you guys pull this off. I'm no coder or electronics engineer but I'm able to do some mechanical/industrial design work to help out.

[heavygrafix]

I did some little 3D Rendering, how SSD Hardware for DSLR could look like in future

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6152.0



EDIT by SDX: use appropriate image sizes.
EDIT by heavy grafiX: Thanks!

[mogs]

Here is my take on a solution that may work using only off the shelf parts.  I do not have a CF capable camera so have no way of testing this.

The plan goes like this
CF Host : CF->40p ZIF adapter (1) : 40p ZIF cable (2) : 40p ZIF to 7+15p SATA SSD adapter¹ (3): SATA extension (4) + power injection² (5) : SATA SSD

My biggest concern would be if there is any reason why a 40P ZIF drive wouldn't work when connected to a CF socket (as opposed to a 1.8" 50p IDE/CF) socket (or worse, damage the CF host device).  Also the adapter would be getting power from the CF socket, however I wouldn't anticipate this being a problem, it also shouldn't be impossible to fix but would require modifications to the electronics.

¹This does appear to correctly convert a SSD drive to work with a 40p ZIF host, also appears to be JMicron JM20330 Serial ATA bridge capable of 1.5 Gbps (150MB/s)
²To prevent SSD drawing power from CF host, depending on SSD used yellow line might need 5V or 3.3V

(1) http://www.ebay.com/itm/40pin-1-8-CE-ZIF-HDD-to-1-8-toshiba-Hard-Drive-CF-50pin-converter-adapter-229-/181116022590?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item2a2b5b2f3e
(2) http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pcs-FFC-FPC-40-pin-0-5mm-Pitch-Ribbon-Flat-Cable-Wire-ZIF-HDD-15cm-Long-New-/110952424273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d547a351
(3) http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-converter-board-Adapter-for-Half-Slim-SATA-II-22PIN-SSD-to-1-8-CE-ZIF-PATA-/261214036476?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item3cd191e1fc
(4) http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-SATA-7-Pin-Male-to-Female-Extension-Cable-FIA-L12R-/280645965548?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item4157cd96ec
(5) For 3.3V http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-4-Pin-Molex-to-15-Pin-SATA-Power-Cord-for-SATA-I-and-II-Hard-Drives-w-3-3V-/270819912831?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item3f0e1fec7f
OR for 5V http://www.ebay.com/itm/Serial-ATA-SATA-Power-Converter-Adapter-MOLEX-to-S-ATA-/200268115376?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item2ea0e8edb0

[Samuel H]

^ A couple of very good finds there!!

Powering the adapter from the CF slot is actually a good thing: another possible reason for the camera not wanting to work with the adapter could be that it is trying to power a card, and it's finding either an incomplete circuit, or a null load.

The good news is, I now can put down the soldering iron and move on to something else. Man, these pins are small!

[mrwolf]

Here is my take on a solution that may work using only off the shelf parts.  I do not have a CF capable camera so have no way of testing this.

The plan goes like this
CF Host : CF->40p ZIF adapter (1) : 40p ZIF cable (2) : 40p ZIF to 7+15p SATA SSD adapter¹ (3): SATA extension (4) + power injection² (5) : SATA SSD

Nice find, Do you think it is bi directional? Normally those adapters are to connect a ZIF HD to a motherboard. The ATA to SATA converters have a switch to change from host to device.

[mogs]

No, not bidirectional. But from the pictures and description it is intended for connecting a ZIF host to a SATA device.
Adding the CF-ZIF adapter and cable effectively gives a CF host to SATA device adapter.  The next question is, will it work?

The JMicro JM20330 IC (which this board appears to have) has mode pins which can be configured to work in host bridge or device bridge mode.  In this case I assume they are just tied to the appropriate logic level rather than brought out to a switch.

The datasheet for the IC can be found here if anyone is interested, someone who knows more about CF/IDE/ATA may be able to extract meaningful information from it.
http://www.mcuol.com/download/upfile/20080424025139_JM20330_Spec_Rev.%202.3.pdf

[mrwolf]

Sure, but isn't the pin out different for ZIF HD and CF? So the converter board would be expecting to see something else.

ZIF:  http://pinoutsguide.com/HD/ata_sata_zif_pinout.shtml

CF: http://pinouts.ru/Memory/CompactFlash_pinout.shtml

Might need something in between to re map the pins? then use a IDE to SATA board.

The Eskabel site seems to have a warning about connecting a IDE HD to a CF socket.

http://en.esskabel.de/adapter/datasheet/ada-hdd-18-zif-cf-sm/186

ATTENTION: Do not use this adapter board to connect hard disks to compactflash sockets. It will damage the HDD. It is only designed to replace an old HDD with 50pin embedded-ATA connector which looks similar to a CF-connector (therefore the name of the adapter) by a new ZIF-hard disk!

[g3gg0]

you have the CF -> IDE -> SATA converter attached, but no CF media is accesible?
does the CF icon in the top-LCD show up?

loading the module itself isnt the point. just running the menu entry that will print you the device details is important.

@pascalc:
what is the current state?

[mogs]

mrwolf that's right, the CF to ZIF adapter I linked to presumably converts 40p ZIF to 50p IDE (but not true CF).  Hence my concern about compatibility between ZIF "drive" and CF host.

There is clearly a difference between 50pin CF and 50pin IDE, which the Eskabel site clearly warns about.  Even though it is the same connector.

I had a friend install a CF card in place of a 1.8" IDE drive in an old iPod.  The first attempt resulted in a very hot CF card, it was later discovered that an adapter such as this (1) was required and worked well once installed.

What we are attempting to do is essentially the reverse.  I was hopeful that the known (to me) issues with connecting a CF to an IDE host would not manifest in this situation however the warning suggests otherwise.

(1) http://www.ebay.com/itm/IDE-ATA-to-Compact-Flash-CF-Adapter-1-8-Toshiba-iPod-/221189190420?pt=DE_Computer_Speicherkartenadapter&hash=item337fe73314

[mogs]

Okay I think I understand the difference between 50p CF and 50p IDE and they are NOT the same.  Therefore I feel it is safe to assume that we will NOT be able to use the above listed CF-ZIF adapter in a CF slot.  It looks like Samuel H will have to pick up his soldering iron again.

The 1.8" Toshiba IDE drives use a connector with the same pitch and pin count as CF, however the pin out is very different.
The 50p IDE is essentially 44p IDE offset by 3 positions (6 pins in total).  The first 4 pins are used as master/slave jumpers, and the other two are unused.

From
http://pinout.net/pinout-scheme/416/Ultra-slim%20fast%201.8%20inch%20Winchester%20disk%20drives

[mogs]

This guy has made a CF host to to 2.5" IDE device work by soldering wires directly into the CF socket (not ideal).
The interconnect between the two interfaces looks legitimate though and could be the "last inch" needed for a CF to SATA converter.

http://www.natrium42.com/blog/?p=39

[pascalc]

@g3gg0
I can't have the external CF card recognized by the camera with CF extender. For me finding a workable solution just to get out of the camera is the first inescapable step to solve before thinking to convert to sata and power up.
I've told the problem to two electronic companies in France with no answers at that time.
As it works with a computer, but half the speed of direct plugging, I don't really believe in ZIF solutions any more.
For me the route now is soldering a 50 pin ribbon to an opened CF and temporarily to a regular CF socket at the other side just to check if it works when the camera finds what it's supposed to find. For the moment I don't have time to stars this job. Hope next week.