Picture Style settings

Started by newsense, May 04, 2013, 06:55:54 PM

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newsense

I see that ML can have a PS for the LCD view and a separate one for recording. From what I understand it's supposed to be handy for shooting with a neutral picture style so you can focus properly with a standard style on the LCD and have the camera use your flat style for recording without having to switch back and forth. Wouldn't you need to switch to the flat PS to set exposure anyways? I read that setting exposure when looking at the LCD with a standard style than shooting with a neutral style is wrong. If that is true why would you need the option to set separate picture styles in camera and for recording if you need to switch between the standard and neutral to first set focus than set exposure?

1%

Expo is hard to set when using marvells, for me at least. So with this option I expo in neutral and then have lifted shadows when I start recording.

I don't know if its more right or wrong.

newsense

Quote from: 1% on May 04, 2013, 07:19:35 PM
Expo is hard to set when using marvells, for me at least. So with this option I expo in neutral and then have lifted shadows when I start recording.

I don't know if its more right or wrong.

Lifted shadows doesn't sound bad since you are going to CC anyways with a "flat" style anyways. I guess my question was kind of stupid now that I read your response. I guess it depends on the specific style used and as long as the highlights aren't lifted I guess you could expose and focus with a standard style and record with a "flat" style. You mentioned lifted shadows, any change in highlights?

deleted.account

I think the general premise is ETTR, expose to the right, so you expose for the highlights. Personally I'd not like the idea of a PS lifting highlights better to compress them slightly and roll them off.

Lifting shadows is to reduce loss in compression, throwing too much of the data in the low levels away.

3pointedit

Infact I wonder if it is possible to have a dynamic rolloff or compression as Sony has in it's pro cameras. That is to sample the highlight and adjust the shoulder and peak like an audio limiter. Thereby retaining detail in highlights and leaving mid and toe the same. (can be issues with pumping though).
550D on ML-roids

noisyboy

Quote from: 3pointedit on May 07, 2013, 04:18:11 AM
Infact I wonder if it is possible to have a dynamic rolloff or compression as Sony has in it's pro cameras. That is to sample the highlight and adjust the shoulder and peak like an audio limiter. Thereby retaining detail in highlights and leaving mid and toe the same. (can be issues with pumping though).

NO WAY!!! I just posted this about half an hour ago:

One thing I do wonder... Coming from a sound background, I have often wondered if it's possible to "Limit" the highlights so you could almost roll off at the top (before the image is compressed) so you could raise the gain and not clip the highlights? Wonder if this is possible with a custom curve?

Great minds... ;)

newsense

Quote from: y3llow on May 07, 2013, 12:35:40 AM
I think the general premise is ETTR, expose to the right, so you expose for the highlights. Personally I'd not like the idea of a PS lifting highlights better to compress them slightly and roll them off.

Lifting shadows is to reduce loss in compression, throwing too much of the data in the low levels away.

ETTR meaning overexpose? I have been using a standard PS lately and get the highlights just barely touching the right side of the waveform monitor. Should I let the highlights go a little over using a flat PS?

noisyboy

Quote from: newsense on May 07, 2013, 06:06:07 AM
ETTR meaning overexpose? I have been using a standard PS lately and get the highlights just barely touching the right side of the waveform monitor. Should I let the highlights go a little over using a flat PS?

The way I shoot on ANY PS is use zebras and just make sure that anything important (ie. people) doesn't have any clipping and you should be food to go. I basicallyset up my shot so the zebras show clipping in the highlights and then dial it back so I am about 1 of two stops. As soon as those zebras dissapear I know I'm good to go. Of course if say you are shooting indoors with only available light and it's sunny outside then yeah, your windows are probably gonna be blown out but unless there is anything important to your shot outside then allow it and just makes sure your subjects are correctly exposed (unless you have time to set up some lights or have a few rolls of ND) ;)

noisyboy


newsense

Quote from: noisyboy on May 07, 2013, 06:50:01 AM
The way I shoot on ANY PS is use zebras and just make sure that anything important (ie. people) doesn't have any clipping and you should be food to go. I basicallyset up my shot so the zebras show clipping in the highlights and then dial it back so I am about 1 of two stops. As soon as those zebras dissapear I know I'm good to go. Of course if say you are shooting indoors with only available light and it's sunny outside then yeah, your windows are probably gonna be blown out but unless there is anything important to your shot outside then allow it and just makes sure your subjects are correctly exposed (unless you have time to set up some lights or have a few rolls of ND) ;)

I use zebras too but don't worry too much about blown out things such as window light or a lightbulb  but have been trying to get in the habit of using the waveform monitor as suggested in a few videos I have seen but maybe one or the other is good enough and zebras are a lot easier to see than looking at the waveform. Thanks!

deleted.account

Personally I use waveform, zebras set at Y 255 and histogram.

Zebras tell us whats happening with luma but not whether we're clipping color in R, G or B channels when converted back to RGB for display and CC.

The histogram suggests when we're clipping those RGB channels, it is possible to have zebras under Y 255 and still clip a color RGB channel.

Waveform I use as much for where dark shadows are forming in the 8bit levels range in scenes of high contrast where even clipping highs shadows crush.


newsense

Quote from: y3llow on May 07, 2013, 09:39:07 AM
Personally I use waveform, zebras set at Y 255 and histogram.

Zebras tell us whats happening with luma but not whether we're clipping color in R, G or B channels when converted back to RGB for display and CC.

The histogram suggests when we're clipping those RGB channels, it is possible to have zebras under Y 255 and still clip a color RGB channel.

Waveform I use as much for where dark shadows are forming in the 8bit levels range in scenes of high contrast where even clipping highs shadows crush.

You sound like you really know what you are doing with exposure. I never thought about clipping colors, i'm a new DSLR user and found your post very helpful. Plan on using the histogram as well as zebras and waveform. Perfect day to go out and see if I can improve my overall video using these tips. Thank you.