Author Topic: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D  (Read 19172 times)

creativeblends

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Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« on: April 19, 2013, 01:11:20 AM »
Hi guys,

I have an issue with Magic Lantern and my 60D, but can not find anyone with the same problem. Anyway, I hope there is someone out there who can help me in this forum.

Since I installed ML my audio levels are recording really really low with the internal or an external mic (rode pro, sennheiser lavalier or sennheiser ME66), with or without preamplifier (JuicedLink) as a bridge. (Also, the ML meters are indicating approximately 25db below of what JuicedLink is indicating.) The weird thing is, when I check the levels in the Canon menu and adjust it on -12db everything looks good, but it actually records -40 to -55db! The wave forms look very small too in Final Cut Pro. Basically, the audio is completely messed up.

I didn't had this problems before ML and just to test, I now deleted the tool on one of my SD Cards. The problem is gone and my 60D records again without problems as it should.

I did not alter any settings in the audio menu of ML. Everything is off or on 0db (gains). Is there something I am missing?

nanomad

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2013, 11:16:26 AM »
ML disables AGC, that's why you are seeing low audio levels
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creativeblends

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2013, 07:41:09 PM »
My 60D doesn't use AGC. The audio is completely manual on this camera.

a1ex

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2013, 10:28:33 PM »
ML overrides Canon audio settings completely.

creativeblends

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2013, 10:37:55 PM »
Thanks a1ex. I didn't know that. So how should I adjust the audio in the ML menu?
Without ML, I have the gain one step above zero. How can I do that on ML? The only menu setting I see is the Analog Gain, but from 0db it goes straight to 10db...

I insist that it is still weird, since when I connect the JuiceLink and I have it on -12db, the camera records almost nothing. If you are right, then I should also have to calibrate the camera again within the ML menu to get -12db on the JuiceLink and -12db on the camera, right?


creativeblends

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 05:15:16 PM »
Nobody else is using ML with audio recording??? I really want to solve this problem. Anyone please?

AndrewAmason

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 06:56:25 PM »
Have you tried adjusting the audio gain in the Magic Lantern menu while recording? So you can see what those adjustments make to your recording. I have used my 60D with magic lantern for quite a few interview clips and they have all turned out clear and well balanced.
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creativeblends

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 07:03:40 PM »
Yes I did, but changing the analog gain (first step after 0db is 10db) adds also a lot of background noise. And because of the huge steps between, it seems a fine tuning as in the Canon Menu is impossible. How do you adjust the cameras ML Audio settings to match the external microphone or pre-amp? The information in the menu says it should stay as low as possible with an external pre-amp...

Malcolm Debono

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 07:06:28 PM »
You should be fine with somewhere around +10dB analogue gain if the mic you're using is powered (such as the Rode VMP). That's what I use for recording ambiance at weddings (the VMP is set to +10dB gain). If the mic isn't powered, increase the analogue gain until you get a decent level (digital gain is useless since you can boost gain in post). This is why powered mics work best with DSLRs.

Edit: Saw your new post. Since you're using the Juicedlink, set ML analogue gain to 0dB and adjust the Juicedlink's levels until you get a decent level. The pre-amps from an external recorder will always be better than the camera's pre-amps.

What mic do you have connected to your Juicedlink, and under what scenario are you using it (dialogue?)?
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creativeblends

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2013, 07:15:06 PM »
This is exactly what I did, but it doesn't work as described in my first post. I use Sennheiser lavaliers or a Sennheiser boom mic (ME66) with the juicedlink. They work perfect without ML installed, which means that the levels on the camera and the levels on the pre-amp are identically once balanced. With ML this is not possible.

I do interviews and dialog scenes (mostly documentary) or normal 'action' scenes from reality for whatever kind of videos.

otylcer

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2013, 09:00:00 PM »
I have exactly the same problem (Rode Videomic & Canon 5D mkII, ML v 2.3).

Recorded audio is very quiet (almost unusable) even with the maximum Analog Gain setting (32 dB).

When operating the camera without the ML, everythings works o.k., and the audio levels are appropriate. I even have to crank down the recording level because I find the audio often in red level. However, such high levels are almost impossible to reach in ML.

Swedecine

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 08:53:53 PM »
Hello, I have the same problem with low audio as otylcer. Maximum gain on ML. I thought that my new external mic was broken before i tried without ML. Strangely enough, the internal mic seems so function properly with ML...

I have a Canon 60D tough.

tscandy64

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 06:56:25 PM »
I'm also having the same issue.

Hoping to find a solution. Thank you

uthguyvan

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2014, 10:31:08 PM »
Me too! Same issue (5d mk 2 though)!

FMarchand

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 06:40:18 PM »
I had the same problem, then I read somewhere to turn off the 'wind filter' and now everything works perfect! I hope this will help you guys!

a1ex

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2014, 06:50:55 PM »
Good catch.

Now some questions to help me decide what to do with this feature (whether it should be turned off by default or removed completely):

- are audio levels MUCH lower than normal when the wind filter is enabled?
- is the problem specific to certain microphone types?
- does this feature result in any improvement in recorded audio? (of course, when it works)

FMarchand

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 07:50:29 PM »
audiolevels are almost non-existend, first i thought I broke the mic because there was no waveform visible but when I applied 30+ audio gain in premiere there was some audio, which, ofcourse, was totally useless.

I am using the Rode Videomic Pro

For me the wind filter is total rubbisch

a1ex

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 08:05:29 PM »
I'd like some feedback from other 60D owners who use external microphones, to see if the problem is mic-specific or not.

Please keep the comments like "total rubbisch" for yourself.

FMarchand

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 08:16:28 PM »
I didn't mean it like that, just my english of saying it doesn't work for me.
But one thing, the mic did work when I connected it just after I pressed recording...

Marsu42

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 11:05:03 PM »
Now some questions to help me decide what to do with this feature (whether it should be turned off by default or removed completely)

Just saw the commit, I take it the ML "wind filter" is/was different from the one in the Canon menu? I'm asking because the Canon one is very useful for us 60d "occasional video" guys who just use the internal mic.

a1ex

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 11:11:06 PM »
Quote
the ML "wind filter" is/was different from the one in the Canon menu?

I have no idea how Canon implements it; this one is from the AK4646 datasheet.

I can bring it back, but I didn't notice any difference with internal mic (but I'm not a musician).

Marsu42

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2014, 11:46:35 PM »
I have no idea how Canon implements it; this one is from the AK4646 datasheet.

The Canon one makes a big difference with internal mic and actual wind noises so I never tried the ML implementation (I seldom do video anyway) - but removing because it collides with some other feature doesn't seem like a sound decision, either remove it because it's redundant with Canon or make it an option like it used to be :-o

a1ex

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2014, 11:59:20 PM »
ML overrides Canon settings completely, so in order to use Canon's option, you have to record without ML.

If you want me to bring it back, show me it's worth the effort of adding safeguards/warnings to prevent situations like this, and also provide me with the info I've asked a few posts ago (because I don't know exactly what it conflicts with).

1%

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2014, 04:09:45 AM »
Ok:

The wind filter works differently on external stereo... it pretty much attenuates the audio all the way down. Its not meant to be used for external mics... I ran into the problem earlier. In the case of 6D and 7D it would completely mute external audio.

As to canon:

Canon never turns off digital gain. Even when the AGC is off there is at least a few DB there. When adjusting audio the canon function way, the range is bigger than the analog range and doesn't exactly correspond. A little bit of it doesn't really hurt but it does raise the noise floor. Its applied in the ADC so its not 100% like doing it in post.

Maybe someone should test: record L with dgain and R with no dgain. Not super sure but the digital gain my also enable other filter blocks by default, there are a few at least like EQ, etc.

Marsu42

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Re: Audio Problems with Magic Lantern 2.3 & 60D
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2014, 09:12:16 AM »
If you want me to bring it back, show me it's worth the effort of adding safeguards/warnings to prevent situations like this, and also provide me with the info I've asked a few posts ago (because I don't know exactly what it conflicts with).

Won't happen from me, sorry, I don't even own an internal mic. I just wanted to give feedback from a simple user's point of view, the few times I record audio is on occasion outdoors and with zero audio postprocessing, that's why I know the Canon wind filter is quite useful... and personally, I can simply re-enable it in my local build, at least atm.

But 1% has much more experience with audio/video, I hope he can give some input on how to auto-disable it with an external mic or how to fix it to work with external mics.