Author Topic: ML UI rationalization  (Read 142258 times)

Marsu42

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #250 on: February 14, 2013, 05:19:07 PM »
Optimization suggestion for junkie mode: If putting submenu items in "My Menu" they appear with bright green brackground, though they cannot be enabled or disabled but only triggered (like "Save Config now") or modified (like bracketing frames/step/type) -> imho these two tile types should have another background color altogether, maybe something between the dark and bright green.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #251 on: February 14, 2013, 05:30:43 PM »
I think too many colors is confusing.
Steve Falcon

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #252 on: February 14, 2013, 05:43:38 PM »
Meters idea:


Steve Falcon

Marsu42

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #253 on: February 14, 2013, 05:50:38 PM »
I promote seeing green has representing non-default state.

I'm just talking about background colors in junkie mode here, not about icons. The default/non default state difference isn't my perception when ├║sing it. As a plain and simple ml user my I see that grey represents "disabled, but can be enabled", dark green "enabled but not active" (probably because lv only) and bright green "enabled and active".

* Tile type like "Save Config now" cannot be enabled, just triggered an imho doesn't qualify as either of these three former types - so another color (medium green or something completely else) makes sense to me.

* For tile types from submenus like "ev increment" that just trigger a setting menu it doesn't matter what the "default state" is (1ev? 2ev? who cares), it just should be clear that this neither enabled (green) nor disabled (grey) but simply a configurable tile - so the current bright green color is very confusing to me - another color would clear that up. This is for example also the case for items from the mainmenus like expo menu iso, aperture, picstyle, ...

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #254 on: February 14, 2013, 06:24:37 PM »
I agree that bright green for things you can't turn off is confusing.
Steve Falcon

Marsu42

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #255 on: February 14, 2013, 07:05:41 PM »
The system of colors is a language (or should be). It should apply to both so that what you learn from one applies to the other. This is my goal anyway.

Sure, I was just notifying you that I my comments only concerned the junkie menu and I didn't have a look at the recent icons at all.

In your example, 'EV increment' communicates bogus state through its ON/OFF green LED, and your confusion is a breakdown. But I don't think having no LED would create confusion. No LED and normal enabled tile color is what I recommend.

I recon you're very in depth with design, but if you arrive passing various theoretical stages at a proposal that creates confusion with simple /me, I dare to skip the whole process where you basically lost me (sorry) and still comment that bright green in junkie menu for non-on/off-switchable items is not helpful. I don't want to start with GNOME3 loosing their users again, but if is like real world shooting problems ("can I switch this on or off, or is it a setting?") interfere with design it's nearly like you're only talking to yourself here :-o

Edit: not to be misunderstood, now that we're beyond full screen submenus :-> I think most recent changes are great and will widen the ml userbase, but imho feedback from user experience now and further down the road has to be evaluated unbiased by a design philosophy but by the result for the final stage: shooting pictures and videos and not necessarily winning the "design of the year" award, though the latter would be a nice extra.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #256 on: February 14, 2013, 07:19:08 PM »
Edit: I think that good design is the mother of good results. Otherwise good design is pointless.
Steve Falcon

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #257 on: February 14, 2013, 07:27:39 PM »
I like a lot how it's going on this new UI, using it I found out thing that were not so clear to me even if I'm along time user.
Good work guys! thanks to all who participated in that discussion so far!

back to it, what do you think about merging the bulb ramping submenu with the Intervalometer one, since it's working only if intervalometer is enabled and now we have other way to have it two click away for quick toggle.

Another change in for quickness could be that in M mode on rebels bulb timer can set shutter time to bulb instead of give the warning that we have to do it manually, no?


btw: Is it just me or follow focus arrows are shown also in junkie menu?
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

Marsu42

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #258 on: February 14, 2013, 07:29:02 PM »
I'm agreeing with you. The only question, which is debatable, is whether items that access ON things should show ON so that you know they are there.

I don't understand what items you're talking about exactly - could you give some examples? The items I don't think should be colored bright green (since they are settings and not on/off-switchable) are submenu items in "My Menu" plus mainmenu items like iso, aperture, picstyle, ... and imho in most cases it doesn't matters at all what "default" the ml devs happen to choose, so that's not a good basis for coloring the item. My suggestion is still to give these another color like medium green, that makes four background colors (1x grey + 2x green + 1x tba - how about black bg?) and should be under the confusion threshold.

But I'd also like other's opinions on that, it's great the ui is progressing at great speed but probably it's a good idea to isolate some "debatable" points in a list and then wait for ml users that don't visit the thread on a hourly basis.

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #259 on: February 14, 2013, 08:38:23 PM »
I've added ML Icon in my code, steve check if it could be improved,please:

What I had more problem was the M it's still not really like the original but it's the closest I got.

I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #260 on: February 14, 2013, 08:53:44 PM »
I've added ML Icon in my code, steve check if it could be improved, please

I think it looks pretty good but would want it bigger.

Steve Falcon

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #261 on: February 14, 2013, 08:56:17 PM »
I don't understand what items you're talking about exactly - could you give some examples?

Bright green makes sense for these

- Shoot/Shoot Preferences
- Audio/Digital Gain
- Movie/Image Finetuning
- Movie/Movie Tweaks

not for these

- Audio/Input Source
- Expo/PictureStyle
- Expo/ LV Display
- Shoot/Silent Picture
- Focus/Focus Settings/Left-Right dir
- Focus/Focus Settings/Up-Down dir
- Overlay/Focus Peak/Filter Bias
- Overlay/FOcus Peak/Threshold
- Overlay/Cropmarks/Bitmap
- Overlay/Spotmeter/Unit
- Overlay/Spotmeter/Position
- Overlay/False color/Palette
- Overlay/Waveform/Size
- ...more
Steve Falcon

Marsu42

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #262 on: February 14, 2013, 09:17:50 PM »
It's very hard in this phase because people are evaluating fragments in isolation, and drops that do not necessarily use the proposals as intended, have not yet implemented them or might not implement them.

Lots of it might be a moving target, but at the same time I guess some input from people using the current trunk might still be valuable - or you might be faced with more disappointment when it's a "do or die" proposal. And my only issue with the current junkie menu implementation is really only the green color for the setting tiles, otherwise I consider it near perfect (though I wouldn't be surprised if you've got some other ideas :-)).

The "normal" menu system is rather more complex and it's great you're trying to figure out a consistent approach for all the different ideas implemented in ml, hopefully without loosing the "toolbox" spirit - after all, it is assembled of various different ideas of different people, and it will continue to be a non-monolithic "bottom-up" product.

I'm glad people are seeing progress, but there's so much more that can be done. I know it can be much better and if we get there we'll be hearing more like scrax's "I found out thing that were not so clear to me even if I'm along time user". (thx scrax.)

At the same time, I hope you don't hear too many "But it's gotten dumbed down!" exclaims, but I'm positive it's on the right track at the moment - thanks for all your work!

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #263 on: February 14, 2013, 10:29:04 PM »
Looking for a 'do it' icon:

Steve Falcon

wolf

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #264 on: February 15, 2013, 01:36:55 AM »

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #265 on: February 15, 2013, 02:21:32 AM »
Steve Falcon

Marsu42

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #266 on: February 15, 2013, 08:42:23 AM »
Looking for an 'execute' icon for the center column.

The lightning icon looks like it has something to do about flash and/or I'll fry my camera with high voltage :-p ... wolf's version is more neutral, though not 100% intuitive. Aren't there any internationally acknowledged symbols for "start" or "on" like the power on symbol on just about any hifi equipment? http://www.clker.com/cliparts/d/9/0/3/1245640607507785093Soeb_Power_symbol.svg.hi.png

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #267 on: February 15, 2013, 04:56:16 PM »
About booleans vs other types, what about:

Colors:
- booleans (just ON/OFF): use green LEDs
- integer: use blue indicators

Shapes:
- booleans: use round LEDs (green, of course)
- values in some min-max range (with some size-like meaning, e.g. audio gain, ISO, WB): use meters. Optional OFF position (the meter gets dimmed if the feature can be considered inactive, like WBShift 0 or bitrate 1.0x). Meters are blue.
- discrete choices (without any size meaning; show choice X out of N) - e.g. picture style, focus peaking algorithm: maybe a spin indicator (now looks like a pizza slice, before it looked like dice). Also blue. Better idea for this?







Pelican

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #268 on: February 15, 2013, 05:07:01 PM »
Looking for an 'execute' icon for the center column.
Edit:
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EOScard, EOS DSLR firmwares, ARMu, NiControl, etc.: http://pel.hu/down

Pelican

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #269 on: February 15, 2013, 05:08:45 PM »
My goal is to solidify a rational UI model for ML and then promote it across the system. The current system does not implement a consistent model (hence my post). It's very hard in this phase because people are evaluating fragments in isolation, and drops that do not necessarily use the proposals as intended, have not yet implemented them or might not implement them.

I'm glad people are seeing progress, but there's so much more that can be done. I know it can be much better and if we get there we'll be hearing more like scrax's "I found out thing that were not so clear to me even if I'm along time user". (thx scrax.)

working, working...
Agree 100%. Thank you very much for your effort to make ML GUI more rational and professional look.
EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 7D, EOS 5, EOS 100 + lenses (10mm to 300mm), 600EX, 550EX, YN600EX x 3
EOScard, EOS DSLR firmwares, ARMu, NiControl, etc.: http://pel.hu/down

wolf

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #270 on: February 15, 2013, 05:13:36 PM »
Code: [Select]
I don't know how does it look like in smaller form...
just try to increase the distance between you and your monitor ;-)

1%

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #271 on: February 15, 2013, 05:18:29 PM »
Kinda like the blue

Briefly had a bug where black bars turned transparent in movie mode but that went away

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #272 on: February 15, 2013, 05:39:17 PM »
my proposal for meter icon:



with more values bars can be thinner


For run icon: or or simple this
another way:
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #273 on: February 15, 2013, 05:49:35 PM »
Good point. For non-size items I'd just slide the blue bar, like this:


scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #274 on: February 15, 2013, 06:11:17 PM »
I've updated it slightly for values in some min-max range, the meter is now a little more long
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-