Author Topic: ML UI rationalization (Read 156411 times)

stevefal · « **Reply #75 on:** February 02, 2013, 08:39:27 PM »

I think edit mode should be clearer to see

stevefal · « **Reply #76 on:** February 03, 2013, 04:49:40 AM »

.. maybe like this

5DMKIII

600D

Greg · « **Reply #77 on:** February 03, 2013, 08:21:09 PM »

An interesting idea from the submenu.

a1ex · « **Reply #78 on:** February 04, 2013, 12:11:06 PM »

The backend now has much better separation of content from presentation, so the new design should be straightforward to implement.

Selection bar tweaks were implemented, and it looks quite nice now.

Now, think about the so-called canonical path for enabling zebras:
- Now: scroll to Zebras, press SET.
- New approach: scroll to Zebras, SET, SET, MENU.

For enabling zebras, focus peaking and histogram:
- Now: scroll to zebras, SET, scroll down, SET, scroll down, SET.
- New approach: scroll to zebras, SET, SET, MENU, scroll down, SET, SET, MENU, scroll down, SET, SET, MENU. Whew!

Seriously, why is this an improvement?

Yes, you can press Q, but this is not the obvious choice for on/off. When acting quickly, the first impulse is to press SET. The submenus were designed for things that you don't access very often (i.e. set and forget things).

Also, on most cameras, you need to use both hands for new keybindings. The one-handed navigation advantage of the current approach was pretty much ignored so far.

screamer · « **Reply #79 on:** February 04, 2013, 12:28:37 PM »

Agree with Alex about all. I love the improvements in usability in the graphical design, but agree about set & q (more usable with the old behaviour) and also agree about the onehanded approach (more fast and useful).

wolf · « **Reply #80 on:** February 04, 2013, 01:49:00 PM »

First, thanks to the dev department that put so much effort into the gui.

I like this new look very much.

I have to admit, that I like the submenu style more the way stevefal suggested it. I'm not afraid of getting lost in the submenu when there is no window and think there is too much information which is not needed displayed. If you exit the submenu you are in the main menu again after pressing trashcan. I mean it's not possible to enter the ML menu inside a submenu.

BTW. It's great that it's possible to hide items in the submenu.

stevefal · « **Reply #81 on:** February 04, 2013, 04:23:10 PM »

I still think flipping SET and Q would be better. It solves a lot of other problems.

1% · « **Reply #82 on:** February 04, 2013, 04:29:45 PM »

Quote

There is utterly no discernible indication that it should be expected to do that. People are confusing being fastest with being obvious.

current is good, menu is on the other side for me too and 6D has a limited number of buttons that can be assigned, I suspect I'm not the only one with this problem. the icons are consistent and easier to implement. Just have to re do my bitrate menus for 600D builds an a few odds and ends like advanced bracketing, mem browser, property browser , etc.

Quote

Canon users will not expect SET to toggle things.

how so? its the way to toggle things from the canon menu. q is only on the quick screens (and you press set too to select). dead otherwise.

nanomad · « **Reply #83 on:** February 04, 2013, 04:40:05 PM »

Using the menu key for menu navigation is a big No-no for me too. That's the only thing canon engineers never realized (one handed operation). Now it's so close to the eye sensor the screen simply turns off when using the right hand to access the menu ... :/
It's probably the only thing they did right on the 1100D...

Actually, I'll probably code a swap menu/play feature on the 650D ... it's too annoying

About menu operations, I suggest we do an A/B test (old navigation vs new navigation, two user sets comprised of new and old ML users). Who's with me?

SDX · « **Reply #84 on:** February 04, 2013, 05:27:58 PM »

Good idea, but I don't think that we should do "old vs new". Since we all know, that the old one is rubbish, we should rather do a "new1 vs new2".
Also, I absolutely agree on, that the thing with the menu button isn't such a great idea. Usually, I would assume that I can leave the submenu with the same button as I entered it with. And having to use two hand is annoying as well.

stevefal · « **Reply #85 on:** February 04, 2013, 05:44:22 PM »

This wouldn't work with 3 levels

1% · « **Reply #86 on:** February 04, 2013, 07:17:25 PM »

we don't have a 3rd level.

screamer · « **Reply #87 on:** February 04, 2013, 07:28:53 PM »

So, no 3rd level, no need to use the "menu" button (really not the best in fast operations).
And about the set and the q, it's not only a habit matter, the canon menu (as 1% observed) use set for toggling things and q only for quick menu. Anyway i suggest to implement something similar to the menu -> erase swap in the properties, that one used to swap between canon menu and ML activation. We can use someting similar in the preferences for Q and SET buttons, so who wants to use set for toggle can do it, and who prefer q can do it too

a1ex · « **Reply #88 on:** February 04, 2013, 07:34:38 PM »

Right, no 3rd level. Rationale: see the links I've posted at the beginning of the thread.

My Menu is working

nanomad · « **Reply #89 on:** February 04, 2013, 07:45:04 PM »

Now we need a "Set menu as default" and we are set (to open the preferred menu or the last one used)

1% · « **Reply #90 on:** February 04, 2013, 08:16:03 PM »

It was easier hiding menus the old way.

a1ex · « **Reply #91 on:** February 04, 2013, 08:21:58 PM »

Right, that's why so many people were hiding things by mistake

(and customizing menu is more like "set and forget", no?)

0xAF · « **Reply #92 on:** February 04, 2013, 08:25:51 PM »

Quote from: a1ex on February 04, 2013, 08:21:58 PM

Right, that's why so many people were hiding things by mistake

(and customizing menu is more like "set and forget", no?)

count me in, when i first took ML in my hands (i think it were when Alex handed it to me), i clicked here and there ...
then later when i was @home, i was wondering where the heck is that thing that i saw before ...
took me some minutes to find out that i can hide/show stuff from the menu...

i think it should be harder to do that, not as easy as it was with me

screamer · « **Reply #93 on:** February 04, 2013, 08:38:06 PM »

Had problems with hiding menus only the first time i used it, but really was a "half useful" thing. Probably i prefer the idea of "my menu" instead. Agree with Alex, it's more "set and forget" and i like a lot the idea

stevefal · « **Reply #94 on:** February 04, 2013, 09:40:13 PM »

Improved..

stevefal · « **Reply #95 on:** February 04, 2013, 10:13:54 PM »

I think 3rd levels should be possible.

wolf · « **Reply #96 on:** February 05, 2013, 12:25:02 AM »

I think that the "one handed operation" is the best way to work with ML.

What if the trashcan button only exits the current menu to the level above and from the top level it exits?
So from a submenu it's needed to press the trashcan button two times or press half shutter to exit.
When I shoot, I mostly use half shutter to exit ML because it's the most simple way for me.

1% · « **Reply #97 on:** February 05, 2013, 12:47:25 AM »

the hiding is useful for the help tab.

stevefal · « **Reply #98 on:** February 05, 2013, 01:40:37 AM »

EOS-M version

Jolly Roger · « **Reply #99 on:** February 05, 2013, 01:51:54 AM »

Quote from: wolf on February 05, 2013, 12:25:02 AM

What if the trashcan button only exits the current menu to the level above and from the top level it exits?

I second that, I've had exactly the same tought.

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Author Topic: ML UI rationalization (Read 156411 times)

SDX