Author Topic: ML UI rationalization  (Read 85884 times)

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2013, 01:25:48 PM »
Like the submenu a lot, but not all can be made half screen width, most of them needs 700px

About Global draw, I think that on off is good, but for other thing like MLU for example for me is worst to go in a submenu, change which type of MLU and then back to the main menu to enable it.
Having the three option as ON states plus a OFF state for me would be better in that case.
So I can toggle quickly without open submenu from MLU for selftimer to MLU handheld.
Same thing I did for Custom modes, you have 6 state 0 is off other are Cmode options, so user can choose the one he want right from the main menu without the need to go in the submenu.

The icon for the button was not bad, maybe instead of square bracket a rounded square is nicer.

I was thinking about having LR arrow always for changing values and edit mode only for changing tabs, which problems could give that? We don't have enough buttons?

For what I can see item with just an option in submenu could be made like a list of thing selectable from main menu like it is for global draw instead of an on/off only in main menu and the options in submenu, they could be in submenu too.

Play button like it's used now seems a bit useless, since Q or SET do the same things and we lost the button for less value, not?

Is possible (even by self compiling) to disable the warning for hidden menu?

Maybe we could add an option to don't show the hidden warning and one to don't show the two line text so to give more space for menu items to advanced users.

Also I didn't understand well, from what I remember from the mailing list, why we don't use canon font in the code for the menu? It seems more readable and bigger too (that will help readability and with scrollable menu isn't a problem).

So far I have max 7-8 items for menu shown and a couple totally hidden (help and debug), Pref has only one item shown and Display a few, all other things are setting that I set once and then hide like Overlay thing, to change the state I use LV display presets.

With a working setup like this having font like canon size will be perfect for my use
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus - EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX Lion, Photoshop & Lightroom -no video experience- MLTools

SDX

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 01:50:54 PM »
[..] having the three option as ON states plus a OFF state for me would be better in that case.
I fully support that one.
In general I really like the stuff people come up with there. But I still have a little question regarding these dropdown menus or what you would call them (as presented in post #22): When I choose eg. the MLU mode, how do I change the parameters related to this (delays and such). Would that be another menu (as it is right now)? If so, I don't think having two menus would be a good solution, since the ON-mode1/ON-mode2/ON-mode3/OFF parameter already is the first entry in the submenu and therefore selected by default. Or did I get something wrong?

EDIT: scrax just edited and added kinda lot of stuff to his post which basically covers my stuff.
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scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2013, 02:07:54 PM »
I fully support that one.
In general I really like the stuff people come up with there. But I still have a little question regarding these dropdown menus or what you would call them (as presented in post #22): When I choose eg. the MLU mode, how do I change the parameters related to this (delays and such). Would that be another menu (as it is right now)? If so, I don't think having two menus would be a good solution, since the ON-mode1/ON-mode2/ON-mode3/OFF parameter already is the first entry in the submenu and therefore selected by default. Or did I get something wrong?
I think that we should have the submenu/sublist like it is now. But from the main menu when we select MLU we should be able to change it not only to ON/OFF but also to the first three item in the submenu.
We will still be able to enter the submenu and use it like now, but from Shoot menu we should have the option that toggle from OFF/(Always) ON/SelfTimer/Handheld. Other things in MLU submenu are probably set once and then forget so you will have not a lot of necessity to open the submenu if you could change the MLU mode from main Shoot menu.
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus - EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX Lion, Photoshop & Lightroom -no video experience- MLTools

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2013, 02:18:31 PM »
Like the submenu a lot, but not all can be made half screen width, most of them needs 700px
Didn't get at first that it was not a submenu new layout, opss, sorry.

Now that I got how it works I don't like it anymore, because I hate when canon want me to press SET to confirm a choice like windows, are you sure? no thanks.
I'm so happy to have learn a way to override standard dialog with Q dialogs that don't need set to confirm selections, so please remove the set confirmation from the mockup... can't see it :D

I think that it will be good enough if Q press (or whatever) show/hide it and SET toggle items on it even when not shown so like it's now.
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus - EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX Lion, Photoshop & Lightroom -no video experience- MLTools

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2013, 02:21:00 PM »
Nice design for pickbox, I like it. Should it also be used for numeric toggles? (e.g. audio gain, ISO)

The numeric toggle could be something like on android/iphone where numbers move up down and selector stay fixed, just an idea/question
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus - EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX Lion, Photoshop & Lightroom -no video experience- MLTools

Greg

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2013, 02:35:32 PM »
Like the submenu a lot, but not all can be made half screen width, most of them needs 700px

Yes, we need a width of 700px

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2013, 02:35:45 PM »
Heh... while you were talking here, I went ahead and implemented the pickbox (and also the MLU suggestion). It's on the repo, give it a try (maybe post some screenshots too).

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2013, 02:40:44 PM »
Heh... while you were talking here, I went ahead and implemented the pickbox (and also the MLU suggestion). It's on the repo, give it a try (maybe post some screenshots too).
Updating repo now, did 5 min ago and there was still nothing new ;D
BTW, solved problem with dialog icon double buffering, but need help with adding icon to ico.c can I post them to let you add them?
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus - EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX Lion, Photoshop & Lightroom -no video experience- MLTools

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2013, 02:42:18 PM »
wait....

before updating source will check if you implemented also the SET confirmation  ;D ;D

EDIT: tried, and some items show ON/OFF only, some nothing some more thing, some have also q submenu so they are two now, don't know if is habit or what but before to me seems more quick to change values.
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus - EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX Lion, Photoshop & Lightroom -no video experience- MLTools

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2013, 04:35:40 PM »
have a screenhot?

/scared to try it

will we have to redo all menus?

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2013, 05:03:59 PM »
If we want to remove the colon or use proportional fonts, we will have to rewrite all display functions (split name and value in two separate strings, and let menu.c do all the drawing where possible). There's a sketch of this in my first patch from this thread.

For now, it works on the existing menu structures. The pickbox is fully passive (just a display thing) and it looks at the choices array. Comment out the pickbox call, and you are in the old edit mode.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2013, 05:54:12 PM »
.. pickbox... Should it also be used for numeric toggles? (e.g. audio gain, ISO)
A spinner would be better.

Quote
I'm still convinced that, for this kind of items, the submenu is not the canonical path..
I think that's old habits. A better new habit would be SET opens openable things and Q toggles toggleable things.

Quote
prompting the user with so many tuning parameters when he just wants to turn it on/off is not a good idea IMO.
I agree. Q can do that. It would work for GD too, which doesn't have it now.
Steve Falcon

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2013, 06:03:34 PM »
set opens the pick box, q opens the pick box but play actuates the value on some menus. can set/play work the old way and q just open pick box or submenu? hitting q again should hide the pick box or sub menu.

right now it doesn't feel consistent to me.

Definitely do NOT make q just toggle stuff on/off

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2013, 06:06:04 PM »
... please do not take canon user interface as reference. there are so many different keys a user has to press...
It think Canon's best ideas should be a reference.
Steve Falcon

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2013, 06:11:08 PM »
Honest truth: I don't care if newbies get confused. i care about fewest click to activate the function so i can use it to take whatever image i have to in the time it is available.

scenes don't come back when i have to click 2 or 3 times to access something. if you miss it its gone vs a new user having to read a little bit to understand what they're doing.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2013, 06:14:47 PM »
Exactly - fewest clicks.
Steve Falcon

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2013, 06:21:35 PM »
something like bitrate with many numerical choices. no way to use the scroll wheel on pickbox and for cameras that have only 1 wheel it even worse.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2013, 06:22:30 PM »
we should be able to change it not only to ON/OFF but also to the first three item in the submenu.
We will still be able to enter the submenu and use it like now, but from Shoot menu we should have the option that toggle from OFF/(Always) ON/SelfTimer/Handheld.
I think those submenus could use ON/OFF item, like Global Draw as the master switch for Overlay.
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stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2013, 06:29:12 PM »
I think scroll wheel can work for pickbox.
Steve Falcon

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2013, 10:11:02 PM »
What about:

- SET/PLAY: increment/decrement (like in the good old days)
- Q: show submenu / pickbox / edit mode (whichever of those makes sense for current item)

You can try this key scheme right now on the repo.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2013, 11:57:51 PM »
More ideas:
Steve Falcon

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2013, 12:31:18 AM »
Ok, just pulled commits... trying.


Quote
This is analogous to Global Draw, which serves as the "master switch" for everything on the Overlay menu.

not quite, this makes sense for global draw but not for everything. global draw isn't meant so much as a master switch but to tell whether to draw all graphics or not. including shutter/aperture, etc

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2013, 12:36:52 AM »
Got it.. so there are others beyond Overlay
Steve Falcon

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2013, 12:50:23 AM »
yea, shutter, aperture etc.

new commits are good. sometimes it glitches when graying out items. might be from dma copy, i will see. not everything needs autoiso off.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2013, 12:52:18 AM »
600D:
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