Author Topic: ML UI rationalization  (Read 142242 times)

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #225 on: February 13, 2013, 01:05:09 AM »
The new menu layout is almost perfect ot me, just missing some thing like full screen submenu and a clean font, but the biggest drawback I have with new layout vs old is that now we have only a decrease value button (PLAY) and not an increase value one (old Q). This makes me hate pickboxes cause I can remember what and where are the options I want to set in ML, but instead of doing it I get this list that always  tells me already know things and force me do the other way using decrease until I get where I want.

Can we have an option to use Q for increase and avoid pickboxes, sort of legacy mode?
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #226 on: February 13, 2013, 05:16:31 AM »
I'm confused with LV Sat because SET and Q give different things..
Steve Falcon

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #227 on: February 13, 2013, 09:58:13 AM »
That's an exception, it can be moved as the last item on the pickbox.

Marsu42

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #228 on: February 13, 2013, 11:00:21 AM »
Can we have an option to use Q for increase and avoid pickboxes, sort of legacy mode?

I can understand this with a Rebel-style camera, but with a back wheel like on 60d I happen to really like the changed navigation set -> wheel -> set, just two bugs:

* play *decreases* the values like with bracketing frames, the more intuitive way would to *increase* them

* for some menus there is a dropdown (like bracketing frames), for other with more there isn't (like bracketing increment). It would be really nice to have the dropdown for all options even if there are too many to fit on the screen, but in these cases the dropdown values should scoll up/down so it is immediately visible what the next & previous options are.

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #229 on: February 13, 2013, 04:13:33 PM »
* play *decreases* the values like with bracketing frames, the more intuitive way would to *increase* them

That's the same thing I'm having problem with, PLAY decrease values since I started using ML, SET increased them until that new rational layout and now we don't have any button to increase value anymore.
I'll really like to have an increase and a decrease button as it was before, since I don't digg in the menu to see if there is something that could help, I know what I need and just want to set it. So those pickboxes are annoying instead of helpful to me.

But if it can't be done at least as you proposed PLAY to increase would be more intuitive.
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #230 on: February 13, 2013, 04:31:55 PM »
Q never increased afaik... it just opened submenus.

At the very beginning, SET was the only button, and it was just increasing.

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #231 on: February 13, 2013, 04:43:39 PM »
Q never increased afaik... it just opened submenus.

At the very beginning, SET was the only button, and it was just increasing.
ops, yes sorry I mean SET not Q.

So now we have for example in TrapFocus:
Q for showing pickbox,
SET for showing pickbox,
PLAY to decrease value.

Why SET don't increase value anymore?
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #232 on: February 13, 2013, 04:45:08 PM »
I think things are a bit mixed up right now.
Steve Falcon

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #233 on: February 13, 2013, 04:46:15 PM »
* for some menus there is a dropdown (like bracketing frames), for other with more there isn't (like bracketing increment). It would be really nice to have the dropdown for all options even if there are too many to fit on the screen, but in these cases the dropdown values should scoll up/down so it is immediately visible what the next & previous options are.

+1 but could be that some menu like K don't have fixed values just min and max if I'm right.
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #234 on: February 13, 2013, 04:55:22 PM »
I don't think the pickbox alone on black looks very good.
Steve Falcon

scrax

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #235 on: February 13, 2013, 04:57:16 PM »
Fast increment/decrement is what the concept in http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=4386.msg25371 and http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=4386.msg25396 were intended to provide. In this mode, L/R would step down and step up, just like in a submenu.

If I got it right, and correct me if not, please;
to change the setting I need to do:
a) now:
TRASH->arrow to select item->SET->ARROW->SET
b) with your concept:
TRASH->arrow to item->MENU->ARROW
c) old way:
TRASH->arrow to item->SET

a and c are one hand operations on 600D b is not.

So still can't justify SET and Q being used for same action in the actual implementation, probably you already explained it, Steve and i've just missed it...
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #236 on: February 13, 2013, 05:08:02 PM »
Q always opens submenu. If there's no submenu, it opens the pickbox or enters the edit mode (those two are actually the same thing). It did that since 2.3, nothing changed.

SET does the most common thing - ON/OFF for booleans, pickbox/edit for 3+ choices. In 2.3 it did pretty much the same thing (edit mode wasn't used for just 3 choices though, it was used for ISO, kelvin, bitrate, audio and most other things with many choices).

So, the biggest change now is that SET uses pickbox/edit even if there are just 3 choices.

In submenus, LEFT/RIGHT were always incrementing/decrementing. This was not changed.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #237 on: February 13, 2013, 05:08:52 PM »
b) with your concept:
TRASH->arrow to item->MENU->ARROW
You could have menu-wide editing without LR tabbing navigation, and then it would be TRASH -> UD to item -> LR to change value.
Steve Falcon

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #238 on: February 13, 2013, 05:42:28 PM »
I made a temporary change: a preferences item from where you can choose the SET behavior.

It's just for experimentation, I'll probably remove it in the near future.

What's hard to do is to move the main value in the submenu - for this, one has to change all the submenus.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #239 on: February 13, 2013, 07:15:06 PM »
Suggested junkie colors:

Steve Falcon

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #240 on: February 13, 2013, 08:26:31 PM »
junkie colors:

   
normal                                       b/w
Steve Falcon

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #241 on: February 14, 2013, 07:47:05 AM »
Suggest green hint text for enabling features.
Steve Falcon

a1ex

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #242 on: February 14, 2013, 08:30:05 AM »
The yellow message suggests that something went wrong (not neutral help). Was red before, but people suggested that it was too strong.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #243 on: February 14, 2013, 08:32:49 AM »
The yellow message suggests that something went wrong (not neutral help). Was red before, but people suggested that it was too strong.

You don't think green for the dependency message?
Steve Falcon

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #244 on: February 14, 2013, 08:36:33 AM »
Green for warnings doesn't sound right to me.

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #245 on: February 14, 2013, 08:46:06 AM »
Green message for item that won't turn green:

Steve Falcon

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #246 on: February 14, 2013, 09:38:42 AM »
Working on an animated meter...
Steve Falcon

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #247 on: February 14, 2013, 11:38:56 AM »
A better meter and bigger, rounder LED:


Steve Falcon

stevefal

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #248 on: February 14, 2013, 11:53:17 AM »
Btw different animations can be made by flipping them around.
Steve Falcon

Marsu42

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Re: ML UI rationalization
« Reply #249 on: February 14, 2013, 04:00:14 PM »
In the case of explaining what must be turned on for a feature to work, I don't see why you characterize it as a 'warning'. There is no pending harm or trouble, just information explaining dependent relationships between features.

I agree with that, green is ok for purely informational messages that the user can ignore since it won't do any harm or it'll obvious sooner or later (like things only working in lv).

Yellow should be reserved for information/warnings that could harm your next shot (like i.e. my recent confusion about bracketing only going to max. 30s shutter in non-m mode, the understated ml warning message is "This feature works best in Manual (M) mode") and red when something is about to critically wrong during shooting/video.