Author Topic: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?  (Read 17489 times)

Mister Paul

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ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« on: January 16, 2013, 06:50:19 PM »
Hi,

sorry for this newbie question but I am afraid of doing bad settings, and I shoot tomorrow...

I use ML 2.3 with "600D Audio Test release": http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2032.0

On Rode VideoMic Pro:
- High Pass Filter (HPF) ON
- +20dB ON

On Magic Lantern:
- Analog gain: +15db (and it's here that I modulate depending of the audio source to record)
- Mic boost: OFF
- Digital Gain: 0 for all
- Output volume: 0db

• Is it OK until now, are these settings the good ones?
 ::)

• Tomorrow I'll shoot indoor, so do I have to turn off all the "Wind Filter" settings? (DC Filter OFF ???/ High Pass Filter2 OFF / HPF2 Cutoff Hz : 80Hz)
Is that correct?

• If I shoot outdoor I should turn the "Wind Filter" settings ON (DC Filter ON / High Pass Filter2 / HPF2 Cutoff Hz : 400Hz), even if I don't have any deadcat yet?
(it's said that I could get infos p.77 of ML26121A.pdf, but I can't find this file on internet...)


Big thanks for your help and your patience!
 ;)

Paul

juantrueno

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2013, 10:18:43 AM »
I'm using the same gear here: Rode VMP attached to my 600D.
what settings are working the best for you?
I'm still confused with the values.
Thanks for the help!
Canon 600D. Canon 18-135mm f 4/5.6 / 50mm f 1.8 / Yashica (Análogos) 28mm f 2.8 / 50mm f 1.4 / 135mm f 2.8
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Mister Paul

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2013, 10:59:17 AM »
Well I was here to be helped.
Not sure my settings are OK but...

- for Levels in am only playing with Analog gain: +15db seems to be fine for what I have recorded (+20dB is set also on the Rode VMP)
(I don't use digital  gain because I have read somewhere it was better (?) not to use it...)

- on Rode VMP I always use the High Pass Filter to cut out the sound of air conditioning, handling noise while adjusting,...

- I keep always (indoor/outdoor) unchanged the Magic Lantern "Wind Filter" settings settings : ON (DC Filter ON / High Pass Filter2 / HPF2 Cutoff Hz : 400Hz). But honestly I don't understand much about that and I look here for advises...
 ::)

Malcolm Debono

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2013, 02:55:36 PM »
Well I was here to be helped.
Not sure my settings are OK but...

- for Levels in am only playing with Analog gain: +15db seems to be fine for what I have recorded (+20dB is set also on the Rode VMP)
(I don't use digital  gain because I have read somewhere it was better (?) not to use it...)

- on Rode VMP I always use the High Pass Filter to cut out the sound of air conditioning, handling noise while adjusting,...

- I keep always (indoor/outdoor) unchanged the Magic Lantern "Wind Filter" settings settings : ON (DC Filter ON / High Pass Filter2 / HPF2 Cutoff Hz : 400Hz). But honestly I don't understand much about that and I look here for advises...
 ::)

You're doing it right  :)

Keep those settings, and only change analogue level when required. Digital gain IMO isn't useful as it boosts the volume digitally - you can do that in post if you want. If you really need to use it, make sure that you cannot increase analogue gain any further. From experience, you'll never need to use it with the Rode VMP since it already has +20dB built-in.
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scrax

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2013, 04:09:27 PM »
For 600D audio part is not same as other cameras so on Magic Lantern try to have higher mic boost instead of analog gain, they are both analog but boost seems with less hiss noise
I use that with internal mic:
- Analog gain: +6db (depending of the audio source levels, used to trim audio levels)
- Mic boost: +30dB (if you have low rec level increase this before analog gain)
- Digital Gain: 0 for all (like increasing it in post)
-Wind Filter:
 DC:ON (will help reducing pop and hiss)
 HPF2:OFF (didn't noticed big differences with it on or off, should filter the selected freq.)
- Output volume: 0db (not important for recording)
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

juantrueno

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2013, 12:28:33 AM »
OK... Thanks a lot to all.
Im keep using and trying different values from what you suggest.

Last night I was doing some tests and for now the best result is with VMP + 20DB and manual audio on cannons menu all the way down just one step before turning of.

Going to keep working to find the best audio setup.

Canon 600D. Canon 18-135mm f 4/5.6 / 50mm f 1.8 / Yashica (Análogos) 28mm f 2.8 / 50mm f 1.4 / 135mm f 2.8
Vimeo.com/juantrueno youtube.com/juakinyan @JuanTrueno

Mister Paul

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2013, 11:34:52 AM »
Thanks for your answers.

For 600D audio part is not same as other cameras so on Magic Lantern try to have higher mic boost instead of analog gain, they are both analog but boost seems with less hiss noise
Hum very interesting...
What are the differences between "analog gain" and "mic boost" ?

Last night I was doing some tests and for now the best result is with VMP + 20DB and manual audio on cannons menu all the way down just one step before turning of.
I think that modifying Canon Audio menus doesn't change anything to results as long as "Override settings" is selected in Magic Lantern Audio menu...
Am I wrong?

scrax

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2013, 01:46:36 PM »
Thanks for your answers.
Hum very interesting...
What are the differences between "analog gain" and "mic boost" ?
I think that modifying Canon Audio menus doesn't change anything to results as long as "Override settings" is selected in Magic Lantern Audio menu...
Am I wrong?
From the datasheet Analog gain could be set to more fine values, mic boost instead has those 6 predefined values that are almost 6dB each of difference. Don't remember if they use the same amp, but from some record test with mic boost high and analog gain lower was better in the finale rec to me.

On 600D you can control audio even if in canon menu audio is off, not sure about other models, probably not.
Since we have complete control over the audio chip I prefer to keep always audio off in canon menu, an enable it only from ML. That way the chip is used only by ML, with canon audio on instead both ML and canon firmware are changing settings on it, and so to avoid them fight for the right setting I keep canon audio off.

By the way I've also added an option that enables audio override (if off) when audio remote shoot is turned on.
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

Mister Paul

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2013, 02:33:12 PM »
By turning off canon menu audio, you mean Disable Sound rec. from this menu ?
http://cjoint.com/13jv/CAwosuHgyg2.htm
Right?

scrax

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 02:43:25 PM »
By turning off canon menu audio, you mean Disable Sound rec. from this menu ?
http://cjoint.com/13jv/CAwosuHgyg2.htm
Right?
Yes, I have it always off (but i don't record a lot of video with audio, most of them are FPS accelerated video of wall paintings) to save battery.
It should be enabled if you want to record audio with the video (since ML can control audio chip but canon don't saves audio when it's disabled in the menu from the pic you posted).

There is a way to record wav separated from video with canon audio menu off, it's not yet working perfect but 1% is working on it. Once that will be usable canon audio could stay fixed off.
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

Mister Paul

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 03:23:48 PM »
It should be enabled if you want to record audio with the video (since ML can control audio chip but canon don't saves audio when it's disabled in the menu from the pic you posted).
Of course I want to record audio with video. That's why I bought a VideoMic Pro!
 ;)
You are right : in this case there was no audio recorded (ML gave me an alert: "Sound is disabled")
So I went back to Canon menu and selected back Sound recording/Sound rec./Manual

Now the question I have is:
are the Canon Rec. level settings important or overrided by Magic Lantern?
http://cjoint.com/13jv/CAwpbIB94yA.htm

juantrueno said that putting them almost at minimum was the best settings for him.
I have read that too somewhere else on internet but I supposed that it was the best settings only in case of Magic Lantern was not used.

Otherwise I supposed that if ML Audio "Override setting" is set ON, no matter what are the Canon Rec. level settings because they are overriden by ML.
Is that correct?
 :o

scrax

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 03:44:49 PM »
yes you are right, canon set the level you have in the canon menu, but with audio override ML will put the what set in ML before record start or when is necessary (since canon will set them each time uses audio chip) overriding canon's value.
With ML 2.3 or without is better to keep canon level low, since we can't control the different amp in the chip, I suppose that having those level at min will be something like mic boost 0 and analog gain 5 in ML.
DC filter is active also without ML, IIRC.

I think that is better to keep audio override and audio off mainly for battery concern since I don't need it most of the time doing photos, from a videomaker prospective this will have not much sense, but I've realized it later :D
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

lister

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2013, 09:10:25 PM »
Sorry guys, i am confused. which magic lantern are you using? ML 2.3 on my 600d has no audio setiings whatsoever.

Tnx

juantrueno

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 09:47:27 PM »
Check nightly builds.
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Canon 600D. Canon 18-135mm f 4/5.6 / 50mm f 1.8 / Yashica (Análogos) 28mm f 2.8 / 50mm f 1.4 / 135mm f 2.8
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Rush

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2013, 12:15:02 PM »
I use Rode Videmic Pro too and have some question regarding Wind filter (DC/HPF).

I can turn on HPF with my Rode, not ML, so should I turn off it in ML?

For me, it sounds like the voice is richer in low freqs if I completely turn off DC/HPF in ML.
And no audible difference between HPF and no-HPF switches on Rode.

BTW, I discovered that it best to never use negative Analog gain - it works absolutely like digital negative gain - peaking limit is absolutely the same but volume is reduced (like in post).
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Malcolm Debono

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2013, 03:35:56 PM »
You sure about negative analogue gain? To my knowledge, the lowest value is 0db (no negative values).
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Rush

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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2013, 03:38:30 PM »
You sure about negative analogue gain? To my knowledge, the lowest value is 0db (no negative values).

Yes. 600D have -3 db and -12 db options.  That preserves peaks of 0db but lowers volume by 3db or 12db...
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Re: ML Settings for Rode VideoMic Pro + 600D/Rebel T3i ?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2013, 04:20:51 PM »
Yes, it has those gains and not all of us use rode video mic with its built in preamp.