Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2

Started by g3gg0, December 23, 2012, 11:30:14 PM

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djoulbdx

I 've wanted to say that I feel the same way when I saw "7D" on the same page of "RAW video" by example. But, we didn't knows if it will be possible.

We have to be patient. Of course, they are concentrated by the raw stuff, the raw buzz for the other cameras. We don't know if they progress but we are told to be patient. But it is very difficult.

Wait. Every day, I come on the forum (and on the chat) to seach "7D".

Regards.
EOS 7D ML | EOS 5 (not D) | 15-85 3.5 5.6 | 580 EX | 28-105 4.5 5.6 | 100-300 | etc...

John-Jo

Quote from: John-Jo on June 02, 2013, 01:56:48 PM
Happy to wait and wonder at what Alpha 3 may bring. Things like HDR video, YUV422  and not having to load ML each time are things that make me really excited for when Alpha 3 is released.

As I said I am happy to wait because each time they release anything it is much more than I ever thought possible. Love my 7D and the current ML. Smart cookies the ML crew. I have no idea about code / programming etc so always very impressed.

So.... Can someone please give me more info on YUV422  and RAW?  Is YUV422 the colour spacing, and RAW the record format.? Could you have something that is YUV422 recording as a non RAW video file?



They way some of these posts read it is as if they are separate somehow.

"

old post:
Currently i am working on a module that records YUV422 data to card.
This code will only work when compiled from repository (there is no release yet)

5D3: can record 1904x1274 @ 12.5 fps
there are three major options
- Frame skipping: record every n-th frame. choose 2 on 5D3 in 25 fps mode to record with 12.5 fps *continuously*
- Single file: save some processing time by writing a single file. you have to split it later on your computer. (maybe the 422 converters will somewhen support this?)
- RAW mode: not working yet, just saving gibberish ;)

-g3gg0"

Canon 7D, Canon 50D, Komputer Bay 64GB 1000x & Sandisk Extreme 32, 16, 8, @ 60Mb/s. ML build: The newest one I know about.  :)

hjulenissen

Quote from: John-Jo on June 03, 2013, 08:57:49 AM
So.... Can someone please give me more info on YUV422  and RAW?  Is YUV422 the colour spacing, and RAW the record format.? Could you have something that is YUV422 recording as a non RAW video file?
Not knowing what the ML team thinks of, I will describe general understanding of the terms:
-Raw is something close to the image sensor raw data. Undeveloped, not applied demosaic, whitebalance, gamma, sharpening etc.
-YUV422 is a developed format, something resembling JPEG/h264, except that there is no lossy compression artifacts.

If compression artifacts is a problem to your application, then YUV422 may be the solution. If better highlight recovery, more accurate color correction, etc is what you need, then raw may be the solution.

-h

John-Jo

Canon 7D, Canon 50D, Komputer Bay 64GB 1000x & Sandisk Extreme 32, 16, 8, @ 60Mb/s. ML build: The newest one I know about.  :)

mixed

Well at first hello everybody,
Normally I just follow up this thread like every day since Alpha 2 released but I think now it is time for a post.

It seems that there is quite confusion about the differences between RAW and YUV 4:2:2 uncompressed.

At first RAW and YUV 4:2:2 uncompressed are not the same!

From now on it is getting technically, who does not care can skip from here.


What is YUV 4:2:2 uncompressed.

YUV defines the color space. While the camera Sensor gives out RGB Signal, it is being converted to YUV.

Y = luminance which we get by adding 0,299R + 0,587G + 0,114B
U = Cr which contains R-Y
V = Cb which contains B-Y

Cr & Cb are the digital Forms of U & V and later only called Cr & Cb

So you can see that our RGB Signal is splitted up and G (Green) is completely left out, but because Y Contains part of the green signal we are able to convert YCrCb back to our RGB Signal (this happens in your TV, monitor or any other playout device).

However, what is 4:2:2?
4:2:2 defines the Chroma subsampling and is defined the following

4 stands for full resolution while 2 stands for half resolution, but what does that mean for us?

Y         :    4     =   1920x1080 pixels
Cr(U)  :    2     =    960x540 pixels
Cb(V)  :    2     =    960x540 pixels

So you can see that our Chroma is recorded by only the half of the real resolution

Now you might think NO WAY I don't this but now it comes

We are currently shooting with our 7Ds at 4:2:0 which states that our movie clips look like this

Y = 1920x1080 pixels
Cr(U) = 480x270 pixels
Cb(V) = 480x270 pixels

So far with YCrCb 4:2:2 now the uncompressed.

Uncompressed just means that we have no compression (well that seemed to be clear)
Since we have no compression on our Video the bitrate is defined by the sampling and our quantization which is normally 8 or 10 bit
So the bitrate for uncompressed YCrCb 4:2:2 at 8 bit and 25 Fps is calculated by this:
(1920x1080x8)+ 2x(960x540x8) x 25 = 791Mbit/s = 99MB/s

So now you now what YUV 4:2:2 is.


Now to RAW
RAW is simple, it is just data from the sensor completely untouched (in theory) in real life you will have some sort of compression in it.

Differences between RAW and YUV 4:2:2
RAW have to be interpreted by some programm before edit / YUV can be edited immediately
RAW gives you the most possibilities (and the need) for color correction
With RAW you set you white balance in the post / With YUV you have a fix white balance


What for what

If once we get all features we would have Uncompressed YUV 4:2:2 at the HDMI Port to record with an external device and for internal ether an compressed YUV 4:2:2 or a compressed RAW





If there is already a post like this then I wasted my time.
If there is anything wrong please correct
If you find any mistakes you can eat them  ;)

dswatson83

Is there still no movie restart ability? That is a huge one for me. I can't use the 7D as my B camera without an operator in weddings since it turns off after 12-15 min. Is there any good solution yet?

maxcolefilms

Quote from: dswatson83 on June 05, 2013, 01:28:14 AM
Is there still no movie restart ability? That is a huge one for me. I can't use the 7D as my B camera without an operator in weddings since it turns off after 12-15 min. Is there any good solution yet?
Just finished testing the Auto restart in alpha 2 feature and sadly it did not restart. I turned On Movie Restart in the ML menu and hit record. My camera stopped recording at 12'08" and did not auto restart.

hjulenissen

Quote from: mixed on June 04, 2013, 08:24:09 PM
What is YUV 4:2:2 uncompressed.

YUV defines the color space. While the camera Sensor gives out RGB Signal, it is being converted to YUV.

Y = luminance which we get by adding 0,299R + 0,587G + 0,114B
U = Cr which contains R-Y
V = Cb which contains B-Y

Cr & Cb are the digital Forms of U & V and later only called Cr & Cb
"YUV" is actually an error. There was an analog format back in the days called YUV, but YCbCr is not based on it. Possibly engineers and software developers thought that YUV was simpler to type than YCbCr. This is described in "Digital video for HDTV..." By C. Poynton
Quote
So you can see that our RGB Signal is splitted up and G (Green) is completely left out, but because Y Contains part of the green signal we are able to convert YCrCb back to our RGB Signal (this happens in your TV, monitor or any other playout device).
We can get back to rgb using the inverse mixing matrix, but if YCbCr and RGB are both limited to 8 bits, the conversion will be lossy (you need 9-10 bits for the YCbCr representation).

Quote
However, what is 4:2:2?
4:2:2 defines the Chroma subsampling and is defined the following

4 stands for full resolution while 2 stands for half resolution, but what does that mean for us?
There are (at least)
4:4:4
4:2:2
4:2:0
4:1:1
4:0:0

I don't know anyone that can explain the system to those number.
Quote
Y         :    4     =   1920x1080 pixels
Cr(U)  :    2     =    960x540 pixels
Cb(V)  :    2     =    960x540 pixels
This is wrong, you are describing 4:2:0. 4:2:2 has half the horizontal resolution, but full vertical resolution:
Y         :         =   1920x1080 pixels
Cr(U)  :         =    960x1080 pixels
Cb(V)  :         =    960x1080 pixels
Quote
We are currently shooting with our 7Ds at 4:2:0 which states that our movie clips look like this

Y = 1920x1080 pixels
Cr(U) = 480x270 pixels
Cb(V) = 480x270 pixels
No, 4:2:0 is:
Y         :         =   1920x1080 pixels
Cr(U)  :         =    960x540 pixels
Cb(V)  :         =    960x540 pixels
Quote
Now to RAW
RAW is simple, it is just data from the sensor completely untouched (in theory) in real life you will have some sort of compression in it.
My Canon 7D produce uncompressed raw data in real-life. There likely is some processing (correction of bad/hot pixels) going on behind the scenes, though.

-h

John-Jo

@hjulenissen  and @mixed.

Thanks for getting stuck right in to that topic! Always good to ask the questions you want answers to.
The main point for me being,  RAW and YUV 422 are not the same thing.

Thanks again guys.
Canon 7D, Canon 50D, Komputer Bay 64GB 1000x & Sandisk Extreme 32, 16, 8, @ 60Mb/s. ML build: The newest one I know about.  :)

mucher

I would like to report a bug(or not) in this 7D Alpha2. While using LV>>jpg mode, which exists in the debug menu, the jpg sequence starts to record LV000001.jpg things like that. If I change battery or something else that will turn off the camera, the next time I tried to record jpg sequence through LV, as per the functions above, the new jpg sequence records in the same name LV0000001.jpg as the last ones recorded before turn off/restart the camera, so, eventually, the last jpg sequence was deleted, partially replacing by a new jpg sequence.

Another thing. My Lexar 800x CF is not fast enough to record the LV>>jpg jpg sequence. The jpgs were about 205k big, 24fps means that 205 x 24 = 4920k per second, times 8 into bit translate into around 40mb/s, the Lexar 800x CF should be fast enough to handle. I don't know what I have done wrong with the Alpha2 or the camera or the CF card.

SyntaxX_3rroR

I'm very impressed by all that work but I am starving to get a Stable Version for my EOS 7D.
Call me overprotective but I never trusted Alpha Versions  ;)
The Stable Version for the 550D works great and I would like to see how it works on the much faster 7D.

S_3

moemusic

I am working with alpha 1 and alpha 2 since they cam out and never had any problems. In this time i used my 7d for nearly 10 jobs, mostly documentary stuff, where i record hours of video. Have no fear;-)

Thanks for your time and effort working on this piece of code!
Hope to hear something positive about Raw + 7d, too:-)

Jansten

Hey all you videoguys out there
When you bought  a canon 7D was is for the  18 megapixel, rapid continous shooting and a better autofocus system OR do you buy it most for video shooting?
I think of my 7D as a still camera.
Seems to me that all yours demand on  raw video for the 7D and higher output just delays any new release.
I,m happy with the auto AF microadjustments and other things i think that have been solved a while ago but after the alpha2
Just my thoughs  ;)

djoulbdx

We can be optimistic but I think that they favor the other developments for the EOS 5,6,600 etc... They have made us understand that they do not try to insist if it is too complicated and they preferred to work for other EOS. The Alpha 2 is surely the last version of ML for EOS 7D.

I have bought the 7D because it was the best DLSR for the price. The 5 and the 1 was really more expensive. The Video mode is good too and I have bought it for this function too.

I am sure that they can find bu .they have a life, a family, a job etc... and the Raw mode has their time. And for the other cameras, they can progress. They are stuck with the 7D.
EOS 7D ML | EOS 5 (not D) | 15-85 3.5 5.6 | 580 EX | 28-105 4.5 5.6 | 100-300 | etc...

feureau

Quote from: Jansten on June 08, 2013, 05:32:27 PM
When you bought  a canon 7D was is for the  18 megapixel, rapid continous shooting and a better autofocus system OR do you buy it most for video shooting?

When I bought my 7D, was pretty much the only large sensor camera which has 1080p 24fps video. Plus I wanted a fast shooting camera at at least 8fps. The 5D Mk II didn't fit the bill at the time, this was before the community went ballistic over the 7D getting 24p and 5D2 had only 30fps.

If I were to buy a new camera for video today (regardless of system/lens ownership), it would probably a Nikon D5200, or the BMPCC (if it even comes out).

That being said, my favorite form factor seems to be the EOS-M right now. Only the soft video and slow autofocus (being addressed by firmware update) is keeping me away from it.

moemusic

I think before everybody was talking about Raw-Video, the ML-Team had made some good impovements on their software and before eastern, there were comments saying "just a few more days". So in my impression there was work being done nearly to the final release of an alpha 3 but then Raw flooded the community. If i were a software engineer i would concentrate on this big thing too. But i don't think, that we won't see another version for our 7Ds. Perhaps if the major problems / implementations with raw are finished there will be time for stuff like an stable release for the 7D. I appreciate the work and time they invest for us so we can play around with these wonderful tools.

Evil Flip

Personally I don't really care much for RAW. Sure it's great but it adds so much more work, processing power and filesizes. I'm pretty happy just shooting with Flaat on all-I, and would probably only use RAW for some testing fun. If I ever get to do big projects (that would need cinema quality), I'll probably rent a RED anyway. (even when they used 7Ds and 5Ds while shooting Avengers, so it'll be fine xD ).   

mdwhaley

I hear ya, the raw files do bring a shocking amount of detail though.

I'm pretty happy shooting Cinestyle and using Technicolor Cinestyle Color Assist for correction.

As far as the Red goes, have you ever used one? Talk about workflow! File sizes!!! While you're renting the Red (and all of its support gear) you might want to rent a crew too.

Quote from: Evil Flip on June 09, 2013, 09:30:26 PM
Personally I don't really care much for RAW. Sure it's great but it adds so much more work, processing power and filesizes. I'm pretty happy just shooting with Flaat on all-I, and would probably only use RAW for some testing fun. If I ever get to do big projects (that would need cinema quality), I'll probably rent a RED anyway. (even when they used 7Ds and 5Ds while shooting Avengers, so it'll be fine xD ).

mucher

7D's color and DR is seemingly fine, it only lacks details. How much I wish that Canon can give 7D stock 4:2:2 output.

_iLiam

Just a question about getting the highest possible detail with the current alpha 2 release. Do I max the bit rate (CBR) to the highest number possible without the video stopping? I can manage to get 2X CBR on my sandisk 60/mbs, and is there any other settings that I can enable to possibly pull out any more detail? Thanks!
| Canon 5D | Canon7D | 85mm f1.2 | 18-135mm | 50mm f1.8 | 70-200 f4 | 28mm f2.8 |
www.liamnewman.co.uk

feureau

Quote from: _iLiam on June 11, 2013, 01:28:43 AM
Just a question about getting the highest possible detail with the current alpha 2 release. Do I max the bit rate (CBR) to the highest number possible without the video stopping? I can manage to get 2X CBR on my sandisk 60/mbs, and is there any other settings that I can enable to possibly pull out any more detail? Thanks!

Look up a thread in this forum about details in All-I vs IPB shooting. (It's a huge thread, and a long debate. You won't miss it)

But I found the most detail I can get is by shooting All-I. Turn on video hacks, flush at your video framerate if you shoot with audio (you might need to lower your bitrate, naturally) and set the frames at 1. I can get about 350-400mbit/s with CBR at 20 with my 60MB/s sandisk.

You can't set the flush at 60 if you're shooting 60fps btw. It's set that way by the devs and no one would comment as to why.

_iLiam

Quote from: feureau on June 11, 2013, 07:01:05 AM
Look up a thread in this forum about details in All-I vs IPB shooting. (It's a huge thread, and a long debate. You won't miss it)

But I found the most detail I can get is by shooting All-I. Turn on video hacks, flush at your video framerate if you shoot with audio (you might need to lower your bitrate, naturally) and set the frames at 1. I can get about 350-400mbit/s with CBR at 20 with my 60MB/s sandisk.

You can't set the flush at 60 if you're shooting 60fps btw. It's set that way by the devs and no one would comment as to why.

Thank you so much for your help. I must be missing something huge though. I cannot find anywhere in ML to enable video hacks or shooting in ALL-I? I'm running alpha 2- 2.0.3. I just tried using the bitrate monster build to see if it was on there but it's not either. Any ideas? I seriously think i'm missing something very obvious but I just can't find it! Thank you
| Canon 5D | Canon7D | 85mm f1.2 | 18-135mm | 50mm f1.8 | 70-200 f4 | 28mm f2.8 |
www.liamnewman.co.uk

feureau

The first bitrate monster .FIR shoots All-I already. You just need to set the CBR/VBR to a high number. The second one is not All-I. Both do not have options to manually set this.

In the Alpha 2, in the screen where you set your CBR/VBR, there's an option for video hacks. Switch it to ON and you can then set the Flush and GOP (I forgot what it's called on that screen but it's the one immediately after Flush). Set the GOP to 1 and you're shooting All-I. (GOP stands for Group of Picture)

Good luck! :D

media100

Hello,

what's the current state of ML-7D-development ? Anyone knows about that ? Haven't seen any posts from g3gg0 since a few weeks...
I would be very happy to have an auto-bootable version of ML, even if it's an alpha-version...

Thank you...

_iLiam

Quote from: feureau on June 13, 2013, 12:48:09 PM
The first bitrate monster .FIR shoots All-I already. You just need to set the CBR/VBR to a high number. The second one is not All-I. Both do not have options to manually set this.

In the Alpha 2, in the screen where you set your CBR/VBR, there's an option for video hacks. Switch it to ON and you can then set the Flush and GOP (I forgot what it's called on that screen but it's the one immediately after Flush). Set the GOP to 1 and you're shooting All-I. (GOP stands for Group of Picture)

Good luck! :D

I feel like such a fool. I wasn't pressing the Q button on the menu to bring up the sub menu! I knew I was missing something obvious. I've been going all of these months with only half of the settings ML shows! What a fool I am. Thank you so much Feureau. Fantastic help  ;D
| Canon 5D | Canon7D | 85mm f1.2 | 18-135mm | 50mm f1.8 | 70-200 f4 | 28mm f2.8 |
www.liamnewman.co.uk