Magic Lantern for 7D alpha 2

Started by g3gg0, December 23, 2012, 11:30:14 PM

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DaveVegas

Can someone explain me why high ISO is so important for bitrate? I get it, more information but also the noise gets really annoying too...

niavuli

Hi,

Seems awsome. I just didn't see anywhere if you found the probleme with saving battery since the first alpha release for the 7D ?
Is it something we still need to worry about ?

Thanks for your answers and for all this fabulous work !!


feureau

Quote from: DaveVegas on December 29, 2012, 01:36:48 PM
Can someone explain me why high ISO is so important for bitrate? I get it, more information but also the noise gets really annoying too...

It's actually the other way around: High bitrate is important for High ISO > Which means all the sensor noise gets recorded due to the high bitrate, therefore retaining more details that can be brought out in post by denoiser plugins.

Recording on low ISOs, there's not much noise (which the codec interprets also as details) to record, therefore the bitrate won't go up so high.

Quote from: niavuli on December 29, 2012, 02:08:16 PM
Hi,

Seems howsome. I just didn't see anywhere if you found the probleme with saving battery since the first alpha release for the 7D ?
Is it something we still need to worry about ?

Thanks for your answers and for all this fabulous work !!



What means saving battery?

Plus, it's still alpha, which means there may be some bugs lurking underneath. (there's two reported bugs that shuts down the 7D clean, almost bricking it) use with caution.

g3gg0

Quote from: feureau on December 29, 2012, 04:19:17 PM(there's two reported bugs that shuts down the 7D clean, almost bricking it) use with caution.
you talk about the battery error? well i dont think these are ML bugs.

either ML crashes+bricks the camera or it just crashes it.
maybe it changes some CFn settings without reverting etc.

but this reported behavior sounds like a contact issue to me.
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feureau

Quote from: g3gg0 on December 29, 2012, 05:21:20 PM
you talk about the battery error? well i dont think these are ML bugs.

either ML crashes+bricks the camera or it just crashes it.
maybe it changes some CFn settings without reverting etc.

but this reported behavior sounds like a contact issue to me.

Ah, I see! Thanks for clearing this up. I've been running a lot of HDR to try to reproduce it but it didn't work. I don't think it's ML related either.

dfallsfilm

Why HDR options seem complicated? It was easier when using ML on T3 and 60D but with 7D..... When I do the auto bracketing settings like for example:
Bracket type: Exposure (Tv, Ae)
Frames: 7, also I tried Autodetect
EV increment: 2 EV
Sequence: 0 +  ++
2 second delay: Auto
ISO shifting: Off
Post scripts: Align + Enfuse

it only shows 7 images with same exposures.  Did I do something wrong?

aace

Quote from: feureau on December 29, 2012, 10:22:12 AM
There's another user that reported similar behavior, what were you trying to do when this happen?
I remember moving files from the card to my laptop and when I turned it back on I kept getting the error message. The battery level indicator would register full the entire time I would use the camera. After the battery ran out and I changed the battery I did some more shooting and moved the files. After that the error message showed up.

g3gg0

Quote from: feureau on December 29, 2012, 01:13:43 PM
I find the best result in high iso is to use an All-I setting. That is  GOP at 1 and audio off. And CBR at 20x.

I'm still trying out long GOP settings at high ISO, it looks really promising, though adobe premiere hates it and I had to re-encode to DNxHD or ProRes to edit in premiere.

I wonder if there's a way to go Unlimited GOP....? :3

thats the point about large gops.
when editing, you must edit the whole gop at least.
and with large gops this leads to either use uncompressed frames (huge) or reencoding (quality loss).

gop is set to max 100 now. i can set it to infinite too, but is it useful?
(well, not infinite, but 2^32-1 which is effectively the same.
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feureau

Quote from: g3gg0 on December 30, 2012, 10:52:21 AM
thats the point about large gops.
when editing, you must edit the whole gop at least.
and with large gops this leads to either use uncompressed frames (huge) or reencoding (quality loss).

I use premiere so: There appears to be a limit on the GOP in premiere. Longer than that, and it would only look for several frames before/after, not finding an I-frame, it would look garbled instead. I recompress to DNxHD or ProRes and it would edit faster. It's already my regular workflow, so that's not a problem. If there's any quality loss, using DNxHD/ProRes minimize this. I can't tell the difference in quality between source and reencode.

Quote from: g3gg0 on December 30, 2012, 10:52:21 AM
gop is set to max 100 now. i can set it to infinite too, but is it useful?
(well, not infinite, but 2^32-1 which is effectively the same.

Not sure how useful it'd be, but given that we're trying out long GOP, I'd like to see how this works out. :D I think there's a risk of when the card 'hiccups' one might lose the rest of the recording due to one wrong B-Frame though. I've had this happen in where one frame gets corrupted and it ruins the rest of the group until the next I-frame. Which pretty much is a non-issue with All-I.

Above all, I still wish there could be that preset thing to choose between one customize-able/stable settings to others, that can be customize-ramped up on CBR/VBR/Flush/GOP scale according to ISO. :3 plus audio recording enable/disable

g3gg0

yeah thats my fear. the longer the gops are, the longer bit errors wirr propagate and escalate.
one bit error in the first frame that causes no visual error will perhaps cause useless frames seveeal seconds later.
but right, we have to try it to know for sure.

i understand that you would like such setting profiles.
but yet is is still experimental and will get improved later depending on general feedback.
yet i have to think about how to make this power-user feature normal-user-proof.
any wrong setting causes the whole footage to get useless.
so it has to explicitely get configured for now.

what about the others? are you using video hacks? do you see use in them?
i can also put that code into a plugin to make sure its available to those who need it and hidden to those who dont.
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alband

Quote from: g3gg0 on December 30, 2012, 11:48:41 AM
i can also put that code into a plugin to make sure its available to those who need it and hidden to those who dont.

Sounds like a good idea. Could also include a few (3?) profiles that are considered to be good - maybe that have different good points and bad points. Average user then has a choice with those, advanced user can get the plugin and make their own profiles taylored to their needs.

_7D_

Thank you guys for this awesome second alpha!

Maybe, I´ve found some little bugs.

The first one: I always get a strange sound, if I activate "ALO warning" in "Warnings for bad settings..."

The second one: Quality warning "Other than RAW" isn´t working. Is there a possibility to configure this like I need it? Maybe in the next alpha?

Can somebody confirm the two bugs?

markymark

Hi, need a bit of help, I am very new to all this and own a 7D which I wish to do more with the HDR setting. At the moment the 7D only lets you take 3 images can this be increased with the ML firmware update and if so how many will it allow me to take ?. The 7D that I have has the Canon firmware updated to Ver. 2.0.0. Also I am not sure where to download ML for the 7D on this site and is there instructions on how to install and use the firmware once it has been downloaded.
I do understand that what I am asking is quite easy for some of you on this forum, but as I say I am very new to this.

Many thanks

Mark

DaveVegas

Just shot a little short and the best settings for bitrate for me with good image quality and audio working is the following:

VBR with -16 & Video Hacks on (Flush at 24, GOP at 1) AUDIO works enabled with these settings. ISO at 800-3200.

Awesome work again!

Best
Dave

SonicScot

Quote from: markymark on December 30, 2012, 06:02:10 PM
Hi, need a bit of help, I am very new to all this and own a 7D which I wish to do more with the HDR setting. At the moment the 7D only lets you take 3 images can this be increased with the ML firmware update and if so how many will it allow me to take ?. The 7D that I have has the Canon firmware updated to Ver. 2.0.0. Also I am not sure where to download ML for the 7D on this site and is there instructions on how to install and use the firmware once it has been downloaded.
I do understand that what I am asking is quite easy for some of you on this forum, but as I say I am very new to this.

Many thanks

Mark
Hi Mark, the answer to your questions are in the first post on this thread http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3974  ;)

The user guide is here http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/userguide

To get started...
Installation
1) Update camera firmware to 2.0.3
2) Format your CF card from the camera
3) Extract contents of ML .zip into your card's root folder
4) Run "firmware upgrade" once again
5) Voilà. Magic Lantern. (press DELETE for menu)
5D Mark ll with ML 2.3
7D with ML Alpha2
Couple of L lenses and lots of old, manual lenses.

beej

Quote from: markymark on December 30, 2012, 06:02:10 PMHi, need a bit of help, I am very new to all this and own a 7D which I wish to do more with the HDR setting. At the moment the 7D only lets you take 3 images can this be increased with the ML firmware update and if so how many will it allow me to take ?.

Yes - up to 9 shots. It's a great feature!

beej

Quote from: g3gg0 on December 30, 2012, 11:48:41 AMyet i have to think about how to make this power-user feature normal-user-proof.

what about the others? are you using video hacks? do you see use in them?

For me, I'm mostly ok with the default video quality - however, I would like the option to engage a "higher quality" mode for important footage. So, I'm wondering if the feature should basically work something like the following:

A menu option called eg "Video Quality", which lets you set to "Canon Default", "Better", "High Detail" and "Custom" or whichever presets make sense in light of user-testing of what settings work for what application. Then a power user could either hit the Custom setting and get into all the specific bitrate parameters, or hit the Q button to see the settings for each preset and tweak/save accordingly - perhaps even create their own presets for their own use.

So basically - for me I'm personally not generally that interested in tweaking all the various bitrate settings to work out what works for me - simply the ability to toggle quickly to a "higher quality" mode for important or highly detailed footage is all I really require, with the ability to go in and tweak the settings if I really wanted to.

RAK1966

Quote from: beej on December 30, 2012, 07:56:38 PM
For me, I'm mostly ok with the default video quality - however, I would like the option to engage a "higher quality" mode for important footage. So, I'm wondering if the feature should basically work something like the following:

A menu option called eg "Video Quality", which lets you set to "Canon Default", "Better", "High Detail" and "Custom" or whichever presets make sense in light of user-testing of what settings work for what application. Then a power user could either hit the Custom setting and get into all the specific bitrate parameters, or hit the Q button to see the settings for each preset and tweak/save accordingly - perhaps even create their own presets for their own use.

So basically - for me I'm personally not generally that interested in tweaking all the various bitrate settings to work out what works for me - simply the ability to toggle quickly to a "higher quality" mode for important or highly detailed footage is all I really require, with the ability to go in and tweak the settings if I really wanted to.

Yes, very good idea. I would like to see also.

Pelican

Quote from: _7D_ on December 30, 2012, 05:36:31 PM
Thank you guys for this awesome second alpha!

Maybe, I´ve found some little bugs.

The first one: I always get a strange sound, if I activate "ALO warning" in "Warnings for bad settings..."

The second one: Quality warning "Other than RAW" isn´t working. Is there a possibility to configure this like I need it? Maybe in the next alpha?

Can somebody confirm the two bugs?
ALO warning was buggy, it always makes false alarm. I've fixed it, it will be in the next release.
Raw warning works fine for me. If I turn off RAW then beeps and write a message.
EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 7D, EOS 5, EOS 100 + lenses (10mm to 300mm), 600EX, 550EX, YN600EX x 3
EOScard, EOS DSLR firmwares, ARMu, NiControl, etc.: http://pel.hu/down

Aldeme

First of all thank you for all the hard work on ML.

Unfortunatly I am feeling a bit stressy after I think I found out a bug  :( . My autofocus doesn't work anymore after I tried the focus peaking benchmark in ML. The focus performance test started but ended immediatly with a beep and since then no autofocus anymore (also with another lens). I tried to re update the firmware of the camera but still no autofocus. Any help or tip is welcome.


OK I just found a workaround (erase all camera custom settings). One extra info for debugging: in the viewfinder the bracketing * kept blinking while I pressed the shutter half for focussing.

Pelican

Quote from: Aldeme on December 30, 2012, 09:51:22 PM
First of all thank you for all the hard work on ML.

Unfortunatly I am feeling a bit stressy after I think I found out a bug  :( . My autofocus doesn't work anymore after I tried the focus peaking benchmark in ML. The focus performance test started but ended immediatly with a beep and since then no autofocus anymore (also with another lens). I tried to re update the firmware of the camera but still no autofocus. Any help or tip is welcome.


OK I just found a workaround (erase all camera custom settings). One extra info for debugging: in the viewfinder the bracketing * kept blinking while I pressed the shutter half for focussing.
Similar happened with me, after I played with the ML, my autofocus custom settings have changed, I had have to set them again.
EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 7D, EOS 5, EOS 100 + lenses (10mm to 300mm), 600EX, 550EX, YN600EX x 3
EOScard, EOS DSLR firmwares, ARMu, NiControl, etc.: http://pel.hu/down

g3gg0

@Aldeme:
Canon menu -> C.Fn IV -> 1 -> PicStyle button

@Pelican:
thanks for your contribution. i really love the way it looks now.
due to the flood of space changes, i rejected your pull request and added it manually (https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/c5e001352bb0)
maybe you should revert all your space changes to this changeset and continue from there.
Help us with datasheets - Help us with register dumps
magic lantern: 1Magic9991E1eWbGvrsx186GovYCXFbppY, server expenses: [email protected]
ONLY donate for things we have done, not for things you expect!

scrax

I don't know if this is a bug (maybe a feat request), but today i've "presented" ML to a friend of mine (professional cameraman at cinecittà) with a 7D.
The card used for the demo was an historic 8MB card :D
ML worked and loaded but since there was the CARD FULL dialog on screen INFO button didn't worked for switching Canon's overlay mode, i suppose this is a canon behavior and we solved using his card for setting camera to no overlay mode, after that we had some test again with the card, after a brief explanation of ML menu he wanted it on his card ;)

During the showcase we had some hang with battery pull needed. I can't remember what was the cause since we tried almost all. If possible i'll make more test in the next days to try reproducing them.

I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-

feureau

Quote from: g3gg0 on December 30, 2012, 11:48:41 AM
what about the others? are you using video hacks? do you see use in them?
i can also put that code into a plugin to make sure its available to those who need it and hidden to those who dont.

Oh, yes, 97% of the time. On low ISO I would go long GOP at flush 24 and GOP 96 so I can record audio for sync in post. On High ISO, I would tend to use GOP at 1 because, even though a lot of my stationary tests couldn't prove this, to my eye, in real world shooting, after denoising, the noise on high ISO (say 12800) with long GOP seems to tend to blur the details a lot more compared to All-I (GOP at 1).

The 3% of the time is when I'm too lazy to set my flush and GOP and enable audio :D

Love the plugin idea. I hope there will be customizable presets in there that can ramp/customize the settings according to ISO.

Btw, why is it that audio recording only works properly at flush 24 or bitrate hacks off? (what are the GOP and flush for bitrate hacks off btw?)

scrax

Tried to compile for 7D but got this errors:
gdb.o: In function `gdb_task_stall':
gdb.c:(.text+0x4): relocation truncated to fit: R_ARM_PC24 against symbol `msleep' defined in *ABS* section in magiclantern
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
I'm using ML2.3 for photography with:
EOS 600DML | EOS 400Dplus | EOS 5D MLbeta5- EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro  - EF-S 17-85mm f4-5.6 IS USM - EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM - 580EXII - OsX, PS, LR, RawTherapee, LightZone -no video experience-