[WONTFIX] Any plans for 3x (Digital Zoom) DigitalZoom like T3i on 60d?

[DSLR Solutions]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, I did check. Not sure if this is even possible, but I am curious if there are any plans to have Magic Lantern allow 3x DigitalZoom on the 60d like what the T3i can do? I like the idea of being able to extend my reach, but I really love the ergonomics of the 60d over the T3i. Any thoughts?

[1%]

Not figured out yet AFAIK. Hopefully eventually. The crop mode isn't just for reach, it kills most moire and produces higher bitrate videos. Probably a lot less line skipping and larger "real" resolution.

[DSLR Solutions]

Thanks for the follow up, it nice to know it is still being looked into. I did not realize the other benefits you mentioned which makes me all the more interested in it. This feature would be worth another $50-$100 donation from me if it can be pulled off.

Special thanks to all the developers involved in Magic Lantern, I truly appreciate all your efforts!

[lumiere61]

Hi to Everyone !

I understand from the press that the new 1DC is supposed to be a remarkable improvement in video quality compared to the 5D mk II and this could be related to the different way of reading the sensor pixels.
I read from the web that the video is realized in the 1DC reading completely a central portion of the sensor equivalent to roughly the APS-H format size (i.e. no line skipping being used).
My trivial question, is possible to do the same, at least on principle,  in the 5D mk II via a firmware modification ?
and in this way avoid the issues involved with line skipping ?
Thank you very much and kind regards,
Giuseppe

[nanomad]

No, not yet. The closest thing is crop mode on the 600D
(I'm merging the two relevant topics)

[lumiere61]

No, not yet. The closest thing is crop mode on the 600D
(I'm merging the two relevant topics)

Thank you very much indeed for your kind reply
Is there a specific thread about this crop mode on the 600D ?
Thanks again and kind regards,
giuseppe

P.S. i think I ve found something .. Thanks !

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2793.0

[DSLR Solutions]

Since there has been no further discussion on this since September, I wanted to say that I would be willing to donate another $50 to the cause (I donated last year around this time). I realize there are other pressing developments going on (5d MarkIII and 6d, etc.), but this feature would be a huge help in reducing moire and getting higher bit rates as already noted. It would also help with getting increased reach for those that cannot afford the longer hight $$ lenses.

Anyone else interested in this 3x digital zoom function the 60d, please speak up and perhaps we can get enough financial pledges of support for it to getting a little development time or at least get this feature request pushed forward in the cue.

With that said, I pledge $50 USD of support to this cause.

-DSLR Solutions

[RenatoPhoto]

Ok, I have already pledged $200 donation for cropped digital video 3x on 5DmIII.

here:http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3782.msg21073;topicseen#msg21073

Also see here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3758.0

Any other pledges for these great guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[1%]

I know its not 60D but may be possible on 6D. All the stuff seems there.

[Dunc101]

This is a very interesting article on the subject.

Could it be possible with ML in the future? FULL HD 1080p 3 x crop on 5D mark II - like the 600D,
see article:
http://ninofilm.net/blog/2010/04/26/full_hd_crop_zoom/

Here is the info on the 600D 3x zoom mode:
http://www.cineblah.com/post/142/why-the-3x-crop-mode-on-the-canon-600d-is-invaluable

Thanks

D

[Dunc101]

Hi to Everyone !

I understand from the press that the new 1DC is supposed to be a remarkable improvement in video quality compared to the 5D mk II and this could be related to the different way of reading the sensor pixels.
I read from the web that the video is realized in the 1DC reading completely a central portion of the sensor equivalent to roughly the APS-H format size (i.e. no line skipping being used).
My trivial question, is possible to do the same, at least on principle,  in the 5D mk II via a firmware modification ?
and in this way avoid the issues involved with line skipping ?
Thank you very much and kind regards,
Giuseppe

More info on 1DC crop modes and sensor reading for video:
http://www.thefilmmakersworkshop.com/movie-cameras/cannon-1-dc/

[1%]

Line skipping still happens on crop mode, just a lot less. Full size of the "window" is 2K something. The interpolation is what makes the funny LV buffer sizes. 6D has a bigger one, they changed the interpolation method.

If its going to happen its going to be on 5DIII, eos M, 6D, 650D and maybe 60D. The other cameras don't have the zooming functions in the firmware or a complete set of them to my knowledge. 6D has all the same functions as 600D so if I find a way to do it it might apply to the others. Crop on 6D may produce a smaller LV buffer than the full size interpolated one but it could kill the increased moire (guess changes weren't so good. I'll try when I get a full decompile of the firmware and we get most things working. 6D looks to have all 5DIII/600D/650D features. 600D can be used to record what functions are called to activate zooming. I don't think just changing the zoom X property works, when I did nothing happened.

[supercar1000]

Line skipping still happens on crop mode, just a lot less. Full size of the "window" is 2K something. The interpolation is what makes the funny LV buffer sizes. 6D has a bigger one, they changed the interpolation method.

If its going to happen its going to be on 5DIII, eos M, 6D, 650D and maybe 60D. The other cameras don't have the zooming functions in the firmware or a complete set of them to my knowledge. 6D has all the same functions as 600D so if I find a way to do it it might apply to the others. Crop on 6D may produce a smaller LV buffer than the full size interpolated one but it could kill the increased moire (guess changes weren't so good. I'll try when I get a full decompile of the firmware and we get most things working. 6D looks to have all 5DIII/600D/650D features. 600D can be used to record what functions are called to activate zooming. I don't think just changing the zoom X property works, when I did nothing happened.

I'm sooooo happy with that answer!

[bart]

One small addition.
Cropzoom is like post cropping a photo. So in terms of DOF a 200mm f2.8 doesn't turn into a 660mm f2.8. You do get the same angle, but maintain the DOF that comes with the 200mm f2.8 at full frame and a certain distance to the subject. Things like cropzoom, cropfactor and a teleconverter just take a smaller portion of the fullframe image, but maintain the exact same DOF.

An obvious purpose of using cropzoom is to get a subject bigger in frame at a certain distance. But the smaller lenses can't maintain a DOF to separate a subject from the background even with open apertures. So it's use has it's limitations there. For macro work it is the opposite and the benefits are huge. You either get a much bigger DOF at small distances than with a macrolens or get a much bigger working distance or a little of both.

[1%]

Right now, putting crop on in 6d freezes/bricks the camera. Have to see why.

[RenatoPhoto]

This is my most wanted feature for video and feel so helpless.  I have written programs in basic and fortran but dont know a thing about C code.   I wish that I could learn it but I am 52!  My mind is aging so....

I will keep my fingers crossed and cheer you all on this feat!

I was wondering if the IDA PRO will help in deciphering how to accomlish this most important task.

Best wishes and thanks for all your help!

Renato

[Malcolm Debono]

Definitely a very useful feature. I'm seriously considering replacing my 2nd body (60D) with a 600D just to get this feature. Having the ability of zooming without reducing quality means less lenses.

[RenatoPhoto]

Definitely a very useful feature. I'm seriously considering replacing my 2nd body (60D) with a 600D just to get this feature. Having the ability of zooming without reducing quality means less lenses.

Well said!!!

That is why Canon has not added this feature to 650D, 5D3, 6D, EOS M, 1D X.  Canon wants you to spend all your money in lenses.  Now this feature shows up in 1D C, but at a price that is not affordable.  This IMHO, is why Canon upsets most of their clients and MAGIC LANTERN saves their but!

HIP HIP Hurray for ML!  HIP HIP Huraay for Devs. 

[a1ex]

Well... even if we knew how to do it, we need some intellectual property lawyers to tell us whether it's OK or not.

Creating new stuff from scratch is one thing, copying features from one camera to another is much more risky. We have the right to reverse engineer for interoperability, but nothing more.

[RenatoPhoto]

 

[1%]

They left it in the firmware. They made a weird 3rd 1:1 zoom on 6D. I don't think they care either way.

[Walter Schulz]

Well... even if we knew how to do it, we need some intellectual property lawyers to tell us whether it's OK or not.

I don't know if it has been discussed earlier: Groklaw rings a bell? That's the place where geeks and lawyers come together. It was quite popular during SCO's war against Linux/Novell/IBM/etc

What about posting your issues there and looking for support?

Ciao, Walter (IANAL)

[a1ex]

Thanks, didn't know about them.

I don't think they care either way.

It doesn't matter whether they care or not, we have to do our homework and stay legal.

[1%]

I think they took out crop zoom and movie AF and it wasn't for any nefarious purpose. Nobody bought 600D at first, it was cheaper than 550D when I was trying to buy mine. Could have been related to *cough* ml support at the time. 650D same thing, kinda lukewarm support. Canon probably decided these features weren't at the top of anyone's list and took them out of the menus. They are a bit unstable to begin with.

1DC has to have everything so its back in, or same people worked on the feature set. They took it out of 5DIII and 6D which are much more expensive cameras, they also took the bigger better fold out screens. Its not because they want you to buy lenses/1dc, etc.

If we think this feature is illegal then so is everything else. Crop zoom is a video mode, af is a property. CHDK does raw, I bet it uses canon functions to do it. So they're all "illegal". They took the ability to operate all of these features out of the UI, that is all. We are just using present features in the OS of the camera. You can't add crop zoom to cameras that don't have it in the firmware from scratch without rewriting/deactivating major parts. What is the difference in changing the video mode or say calling dumpf? Neither feature is accessible from the UI.

Same thing for the movie restart, it CANT bypass the 30 minute limit (I don't think anything can short of patched rom update). The camera still stops. There are 2 separate files made and a few seconds gap in the middle. Its just as illegal as watching it like a hawk and pressing rec again.

[a1ex]

If we think this feature is illegal then so is everything else.

Not quite, there are some different situations:

1) Calling Canon API to implement some new feature, such as the advanced bracketing or the timelapse stuff. We have our own code and algorithms, we call Canon's software library routines (to take a picture, set shutter speed etc) and we have reverse engineered Canon code for interoperability (so we have figured out how to call their undocumented API).

2) Enabling some hidden feature that is already in the firmware, but not on the user interface. This is more likely to be considered a derivative work of Canon code, which is not good for us. If Canon wants to sell feature X on some high-end camera and we bring it to some other low-end camera, we will probably hurt Canon's market, and we are not allowed to reverse engineer in this case.

3) Implementing some feature that Canon already has on some other camera. If we would copy Canon code, that would be copyright infringement. If we implement it from scratch and copy only the functionality, that shouldn't infringe any copyrights, but to be fully legal it has to be implemented by someone who did not see how Canon did it (the chinese wall technique).

I know, it's not easy with all this legal uncertainity, that's why we need some intellectual property lawyers to clear it up.

Until then, we are just playing Russian roulette.