Author Topic: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries  (Read 1269 times)

camilo

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Hi all,
I'm a glaciologist that monitors glaciers using automated cameras. I'm now at an outpost in the Yukon trying to upgrade one of our systems to use a Canon 6D. For the older Canon cameras I've used, to connect the camera to the system's battery I just made a dummy battery by opening a standard Canon battery, removing the internal battery cells and electronics and wiring the battery contacts directly to the external system battery. However, after doing that for the 6D, on power-up I get a menu saying "Cannot communicate with battery. Use this battery?" and if I don't put OK, the camera won't do anything. This request, messes completely the operation of our camera controlling system, which assumes the camera will be ready to shoot soon after power-up.
I installed ML in the hope that this battery-check feature would be disabled, but after trying it, I see that's not the case.
Can this feature be disabled using ML? Is there a workaround for this problem?

I know that perhaps the best option is to use a Canon dc coupler (a.k.a. dummy battery) or an alternative one. But it is unclear to me if these devices just bypass the input voltage to the camera or have a voltage regulator inside that requires a higher voltage, in which case it won't work either (as the system battery is a very large 7.4v Li-Ion battery pack). Anyway, it is very unlikely I can get one of those dummy batteries here before we leave. So I would really appreciate any advice to disable this feature using ML if that is at all possible.

Thanks!


Skinny

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Re: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2022, 11:11:18 AM »
If you won't find a solution, you can probably use small PCB from Canon battery that you disassembled, just wire 7.4v to the contacts where original batteries were connected and see if it will work. I recently made a dummy adapter like that, and it works... But it doesn't output the voltage (some protection from over-discharged battery?) unless I connect it to a charger for a second, then it works ok.
And if your voltage is always there, it should work like that forever.

There is also third contact to the middle of cells, I don't know if it will work without it or not, and maybe you can trick it with 2 resistors to + and -. Or by connecting to the 3.7-4.2v if you have this voltage somewhere.

Maybe adding a diode (si or schottky?) from the battery to the output will help to start it without a charger, I don't know, I should probably google this and original battery PCB schematic.

Ant123

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Re: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2022, 11:14:43 AM »
Did you try to isolate both service contacts on your battery?
On LPE-17 one of two middle contacts is temperature sensor and the other one is used for data communication.
When you leave only "+" and "-" terminals, camera can decide that you are using a DC coupler.
But the shut down level might change.

c_joerg

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Re: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2022, 12:16:45 PM »
And do you think it works?
All 4 pins of my DC coupler are occupied. When I bought the one for the 6D, there were some with and without communication.
My DC coupler work on R as well.
EOS R

Ant123

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Re: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2022, 12:36:59 PM »
At least it works on EOS M3. Of course it is possible that 6D behaves differently.

c_joerg

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Re: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2022, 12:47:22 PM »
For testing:
That should then also work with a normal battery with taped contacts.
EOS R

camilo

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Re: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2022, 07:06:00 PM »
If you won't find a solution, you can probably use small PCB from Canon battery that you disassembled, just wire 7.4v to the contacts where original batteries were connected and see if it will work. I recently made a dummy adapter like that, and it works... But it doesn't output the voltage (some protection from over-discharged battery?) unless I connect it to a charger for a second, then it works ok.
And if your voltage is always there, it should work like that forever.

There is also third contact to the middle of cells, I don't know if it will work without it or not, and maybe you can trick it with 2 resistors to + and -. Or by connecting to the 3.7-4.2v if you have this voltage somewhere.

Maybe adding a diode (si or schottky?) from the battery to the output will help to start it without a charger, I don't know, I should probably google this and original battery PCB schematic.

Thanks Skinny for the advice. I tried that and it indeed works, but unfortunately, it is not a solution. This is because for energy saving, the system removes the power from the dummy battery, and as soon as you do that, the circuitry in the battery refuses to deliver energy until you put it to charge. Even worse, if you put it to charge for a few seconds, then it will report to the camera that the battery is almost dead, despite the battery connected being full. It seems to keep count of how muy energy was delivered to the battery in the charging state and calculate remaining capacity from that, not from the actual voltage of the battery.
This energy saving measurement is important, because the systems run over a big 7.4v battery over the arctic winter, when solar panels are not much help.

Walter Schulz

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Re: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2022, 07:16:31 PM »
You are using the wrong battery/powerbank then.
There is a workaround but it may be too late to implement it: A small circuit in the power line able to fool the battery into "thinking" there is a load connected all the time. Lookup "dummy load".

Skinny

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Re: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2022, 09:08:33 PM »
and as soon as you do that, the circuitry in the battery refuses to deliver energy until you put it to charge
The battery should have a switch (a mosfet probably, on "-" side) that cuts power so the camera doesn't start... And if you short it (a wire from "-" input to "-" output on pcb), it won't be something bad, you just loose the protection. At least in theory. But maybe the camera could start then, and can communicate with the battery.. Do this carefully, and if possible use some over-current protection like a fuse at least..

And this issue with reporting wrong charge level - probably because you have real canon battery.. some cheap noname batteries could behave differently, if you can find one.

camilo

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Re: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2022, 07:07:49 AM »
Thanks for this idea, it was definitely worth trying.
The power was cut on the + side, and after bypassing the circuit and trying the new hacked battery, the camera does receive power and seems to communicate with the battery. Unfortunately, despite receiving a good voltage (~8.2 V) the camera acts as if the battery is flat and does not turn on, showing only a flashing empty battery on the LCD display. Presumably, the battery circuitry tells the camera that the battery is flat, as it hasn't registered any power going into the battery.

This workaround doesn't solve my problem then, but for the sake of curiosity, I tried the trick of putting the dummy battery to charge for a while (connected to the big external battery). This indeed makes the camera work and reports that the battery is not empty. So the problem is that if the battery doesn't communicate, the camera requires that annoying manual approval to use the battery, and if it does communicate, it will obey what the battery circuitry says about battery power, which has nothing to do with the actual power in the external battery.

Is it within the possibilities of ML to disable that battery approval check?

Thanks!

c_joerg

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Re: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2022, 07:28:03 AM »
I remember with my M3 that there was a message about non Canon  batteries.
You only had to confirm this once and then it didn't come back.
EOS R

Skinny

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Re: Disable autorization request for "non-communicating" batteries
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2022, 09:07:13 PM »
I tried the trick of putting the dummy battery to charge for a while (connected to the big external battery). This indeed makes the camera work and reports that the battery is not empty.
maybe this sequence can be recreated at start..

if you put a capacitor (like 1000 uf or more) inside the battery, instead of original li-ion cells... and then apply 8.2v to the battery, like it is charging. The battery should "think" that it's charged. Wait a second and then apply + 8.2v to the camera to start the camera and communicate with "freshly charged" battery..