Author Topic: AI algorithms for debinning  (Read 9121 times)

IDA_ML

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
Re: AI algorithms for debinning
« Reply #100 on: September 06, 2021, 07:59:01 AM »
Mlrocks,

Did you try 1x3, AR 1,87, 1736x2928, 10 bit on the 650D?  On the EOS-M this preset provides continuous recording at 16 fps and the quality is fantastic!  I can use up to 90% sharpening in MLVApp without noticing any disturbing artefacts.   Perfect for wide angle landscape videography, even at 16 fps, as long as you don't move the camera too fast.

mlrocks

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
Re: AI algorithms for debinning
« Reply #101 on: September 06, 2021, 05:09:44 PM »
Mlrocks,

Did you try 1x3, AR 1,87, 1736x2928, 10 bit on the 650D?  On the EOS-M this preset provides continuous recording at 16 fps and the quality is fantastic!  I can use up to 90% sharpening in MLVApp without noticing any disturbing artefacts.   Perfect for wide angle landscape videography, even at 16 fps, as long as you don't move the camera too fast.

Hello, IDA_ML:

On 650D, 1x3 5.2k mode (1736x2216), 10 bit is from the Crop New module. It has a benchmark of 60 MB/s, not as much as UHD 1x3's 68 MB/s. It also shows much more pink frames than the Crop module presets. I now realize that the higher the 1x3 resolution, the better IQ the preset has. I don't use 1x1 any more unless there is the lens restriction.

It is good to know that you can use MLV App sharpening to 90% without noticing artefacts for 1x3 footage. I agree with you that MLV App is actually good enough for 1x3 pp. No need for further software.

IDA_ML

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
Re: AI algorithms for debinning
« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2021, 08:04:14 PM »
It is good to know that you can use MLV App sharpening to 90% without noticing artefacts for 1x3 footage. I agree with you that MLV App is actually good enough for 1x3 pp. No need for further software.

I do the postprocessing entirely in MLVApp and export to PR422LT.  These files are very light to play in Resolve Lite which I use just for cutting and editing.  In my experience this is the fastest and easiest pp workflow.  Works very well on my 7 years old laptop.  I am too lazy to use more complex and time consuming workflows.  This one yields quite satisfactory image quality too.

mlrocks

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
Re: AI algorithms for debinning
« Reply #103 on: September 10, 2021, 06:24:57 PM »
Finally, on 650D, I settle down on UHD 1X3, AR 1.78, 10-bit color depth, 14-bit lossless compression, 24 fps. With Bilal's latest 8-22-2021 version, with EDMAC hack on, SD overclocking to 240Mhz,  the benchmark is about 67 MB/s. For a complex scene at ISO 1600, the mode has a reading of less than 60 MB/s. Thus, the mode is robustly continuous. This mode has real time colored correct framing preview, and it is compatible with external monitors for director/customer viewing. Using the zoom in and set botton, online real time colored magic zoom 2x is available even in recording. Hope in the future the set button can be assigned to auto ETTR, leaving only zoom in button for the magic zoom. Pushing the info button goes to the second user interface layout, here the shutter speed can be changed and viewed real time. Using top panel ISO button, ISO level can be set up. So manual ETTR is possible in this mode. Together with the articulate LCD and an optional LCDVF, this configuration makes 650D a state of art news/event camera. The image quality of UHD 1X3 is significantly better than 1920x1080 1X1, well good enough for youtube, TV, and smart phone. Even on desktop monitor in full screen mode, UHD 1X3 footage still holds up.

With a well made cheap SmallRig baseplate, and some carbon fiber rails, I can mount my Tascam DR60D audio recorder, providing two standard XLRs and one 3.5mm plug in. So professional level audio can be integrated into this setup. The rails system in this way has a small footprint and is light weight actually.

If continuous recording is not a requirement, 5.2K 1X3 and 3K 1X1 10-bit color depth, 14-bit lossless compression, 24 fps, AR 2.67, can be recorded at least 3 to 5 seconds, even in extreme cases like a complex scene at ISO 1600. 5.2K 1X3 is actually 4K raw 1x1 CR (compression ratio) 12 level IQ. 

mlrocks

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
Re: AI algorithms for debinning
« Reply #104 on: September 11, 2021, 02:35:30 AM »
On 5D3, with the latest ML, external monitors will not give correct framing in higher resolution modes than 1080p. The correct frame preview has low resolution, difficult to focus. As Stef7 mentioned, this is the major caveat of 5D3 ML at the current stage. Other than this preview issue, 5D3 ML is really user friendly, with auto ETTR and 10x zoom in implemented in the 5.8k 1x3 mode.

Frequent changing between the modes freezes the camera on 5D3. To solve this issue, sometimes I take out the batteries, sometimes I copy the new ML files from computer to the CF card. So it is recommended that on 5D3 it is better to stick to one mode and don't change frequently. Update: Unloading the modules of adtg_gui and bench solves this issue. Changing modes now is smooth.

With card spanning and no sd overclocking, I use anamorphic 5.8k 1x3, AR 2.67, 24 fps, 10-bit color depth, 14-bit lossless. It is continuous for a relative complicated scene with trees and leaves at ISO 800 F5.6 or ISO 6400 F16. The reading is about 125 MB/s for the beginning several seconds showing orange color dot, then going green at about 85 MB/s. For super 35mm lenses, I use 3.5k 1x1 centered, AR 2.67, 24 fps, 10-bit color depth, 14-bit lossless. It is continuous for a relative complicated scene at ISO 800 F5.6 or ISO 6400 F16. The reading is about 135 MB/s for the beginning several seconds showing red dot, then going green or orange at about 95 MB/s. The noise at ISO 6400 in 3.5k 1x1 mode is much greater than that in 5.8k 1x3 mode, probably 2 stops difference, not useable to my eyes. ISO 6400 in 5.8k 1x3 mode is acceptable, noise is noticeable.

IQwise, 5.8k 1x3 is little bit better than 3.5k 1x1, in terms of details, not significant though. Both are already very good in full screen mode on a 1920x1080 monitor, if at ISO 100. My experiment showed that 5.8k 1x3 footage is on par with UHD 1x1's in terms of details, if not better. Overall IQ, 5.8k 1x3 is better than UHD 1x1, due to its larger sensor size.

With card spanning and sd overclocking to 160 MHz, I use anamorphic 5.8k 1x3, AR 2.4, 24 fps, 14-bit color depth, 14-bit lossless. It is continuous. I guess that I can also do continuous anamorphic 5.8k 1x3, AR 1.78, 24 fps, 10-bit color depth, 14-bit lossless. For super 35mm lenses, I use 3.5k 1x1 centered, AR 2.4, 24 fps, 10-bit color depth, 14-bit lossless. It is continuous. It seems that the improvement of sd overclocking is not as significant on 5D3 as on 650D at the current stage. I can live with AR 2.67.


mlrocks

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
Re: AI algorithms for debinning
« Reply #105 on: September 13, 2021, 03:47:18 AM »
I did a stress test on 5D3 with SD overclocking at 160 MHz. The CF and SD cards both were Sandisk 170 MB/s 128 GB. I used anamorphic 5.8k 1x3, AR 2.67, 24 fps, 10-bit color depth, 14-bit lossless. The recording time lasted almost 40 minutes. The temperature sign was 26 C all of the time during recording. After the card was full, the recording stopped, then the temperature sign was 53 C. I checked on ML menu, the internal temperature was 49 C. The internal temperature reduced to 35 C 15 minutes after turning off the camera.

The CF card used was 120 GB, the SD card used was 60 GB. I did another field shooting the same day without SD overclocking activated in the same mode, the CF card used was 120 GB, the SD card used was 30 GB. I suppose that without SD overclocking, the CF writing speed is 80 MB/s, SD 20 MB/s; with SD overclocking, the CF writing speed is 80 MB/s, SD 40 MB/s. The remaining space sign of the ML user interface is actually SD card's, not CF card's.


Chris19

  • Just arrived
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: AI algorithms for debinning
« Reply #106 on: September 13, 2021, 09:03:40 AM »
Dear ML Rocks

5.760 x 3.840 Pixel (3:2) 3.960 x 2.640 Pixel (3:2) 3.840 x 2.560 Pixel (3:2)Covid-192.880 x 1.920 Pixel (3:2) 2.880 x 1.920 Pixel (3:2) 1.920 x 1.280 Pixel (3:2) 720 x 480 Pixel (3:2)

I thought the correct definition definition is 5.7k?
Do you also use super 35 lenses. Somebody told  me, those lenses have an infinity that looks too soft?


mlrocks

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
Re: AI algorithms for debinning
« Reply #107 on: October 08, 2021, 07:04:27 AM »
Dear ML Rocks

5.760 x 3.840 Pixel (3:2) 3.960 x 2.640 Pixel (3:2) 3.840 x 2.560 Pixel (3:2)Covid-192.880 x 1.920 Pixel (3:2) 2.880 x 1.920 Pixel (3:2) 1.920 x 1.280 Pixel (3:2) 720 x 480 Pixel (3:2)

I thought the correct definition definition is 5.7k?
Do you also use super 35 lenses. Somebody told  me, those lenses have an infinity that looks too soft?

It can be 5.7k or 5.8k, it is actually 5.75k. It is no big deal. 70D is 5.4k or 5.5k, no big deal.
I use EFS lenses. No problem for infinity.
It really depends on lenses. Old mf wide angle lenses may have issues on infinity. But Zeiss C/Y 21mm is pretty darn good on infinity. Leica R 180 3.4 is a spy lens. So it really depends.
There is a heresay that Zeiss super 16 standard prime and super 35 standard prime lenses are adapted from C/Y lenses, adding cinema lens mechanism. There is no reason that super 35 cinema lenses are optically different from photo mf lenses. The only major difference is the flange distance. Using Latex adapter for each lens, can really be accurate. If adapter is not accurate, it may cause the issue at infinity. Some MF cinema lenses like B4 lenses need back focusing, which is an art practice itself. You are supposed to be at pro level or make a lot of efforts to be able to handle them.

mlrocks

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
Re: AI algorithms for debinning
« Reply #108 on: October 08, 2021, 07:40:06 AM »
My ideal ML camera setup is the following:
5D3, 5.8k 1x3, cinematic scenarios, thanks to Danne's ML, almost perfect enough for field work.
650D/700D, UHD 1x3, news/events, thanks to Bil's ML especially for the correct color preview and magic zoom v2.
70D, 5.5k 1x3, dual pixel af on with stm efs lenses, steadicam/gimbal, cinematic moving scenes.

I already have 5d3 and 650D, will have 70D when its ML is more mature.

mlrocks

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
Re: AI algorithms for debinning
« Reply #109 on: October 12, 2021, 05:21:36 AM »
For a wide angle landscape/seascape scene, using MLV App to process the 5.7/5.8k 1x3 raw files and export them to 2k and 5.7k high quality h264 mp4 files, viewing them in full screen mode on a 27 inch 1920x1080 monitor, to my eyes, there is a loss of details in the 2k mp4 files than in the original resolution mp4 files, but the difference is not significant enough as eye catching. The file sizes of the 2k mp4 files are about 10 time less than those of the 5.7k mp4 files. It may be a good idea to have these oversampled high quality 2k mp4 files to save hard drive space, if 4k is not a requirement. Also, the processing time in MLV App is about 40% for the 2k output compared to that of the 5.7k output.