AI algorithms for debinning

[theBilalFakhouri]

..So 5.2k 1x3, 10-bit color depth, 14-bit lossless compression, AR 2.67, 24 fps, seems continuous on 650D with SD card overclocking at 240 hz if such a preset is implemented. 5.2k 1x3 anamorphic will use the full APS-C/super 35mm sensor width, so there will be a lot of benefits..

You can already have it in my 650D build but without real-time correct preview, load crop_new module, restart the camera, go to "Crop mode V2" submenu --> "Choose preset..." --> Select "2.35:1 1x3" --> press "SET" button in LiveView to apply the preset (settings) if it didn't apply.

Now you should see 1736x2214 (2.35:1 AR) 1x3 in "Crop mode V2" also in "RAW video", go to "RAW video" submenu and choose 2.67: AR, you should get 1736x1954 @ 23.976 FPS (5208x1954 after stretching).

If you want 10-bitdepth in lossless, select 14-bit lossless from "RAW video" submenu, and use 10 bit-depth from "Crop mode V2", during my tests it was mostly continuous (depending on scene, global draw off), SD overclock @ 240 MHz.

[mlrocks]

You can already have it in my 650D build but without real-time correct preview, load crop_new module, restart the camera, go to "Crop mode V2" submenu --> "Choose preset..." --> Select "2.35:1 1x3" --> press "SET" button in LiveView to apply the preset (settings) if it didn't apply.

Now you should see 1736x2214 (2.35:1 AR) 1x3 in "Crop mode V2" also in "RAW video", go to "RAW video" submenu and choose 2.67: AR, you should get 1736x1954 @ 23.976 FPS (5208x1954 after stretching).

If you want 10-bitdepth in lossless, select 14-bit lossless from "RAW video" submenu, and use 10 bit-depth from "Crop mode V2", during my tests it was mostly continuous (depending on scene, global draw off), SD overclock @ 240 MHz.

Thank you very much, theBilalFakhouri. This is really great. You change a "nobody" 650D into a 4k raw run-n-gun camera. I downloaded your today's ML version. I tested this mode just now. When ISO was set to 100, even for a relative complex scene with dense foliage, it was continuous (recorded over 1 minute, manually stopped) in the mode of APS-C full width 5208x1954 1x3 anamorphic 24 fps 10-bit color depth 14-bit lossless compression AR 2.67. The data rate calculated by ML was 60-65 MB/s for the scene. The footage looked nice in MLV App. When the ISO increased to over 400, the recording stopped after several seconds. I changed the AR to 3, then it was continuous. Another option is to change the color depth to 8-bit, even though the pp overhead will sacrifice a little bit, but the AR can be maintained at 2.67. Another option is to turn off the global draw, just need to deal with the monitoring difficulties. Therefore, I rate 650D as a super 35mm 10-bit 4k raw camera at ISO 100 (during day time or under good lighting).

I just tested a night home scene with a kitchen table and a lamp with 650D. ISO was set to 6400, with global draw off, sound record off, sd card overclock 240 hz, both the modes of 5208x1954 1x3 anamorphic 24 fps 10-bit color depth 14-bit lossless compression AR 2.67 and 3k 1x1 24 fps 10-bit color depth 14-bit lossless compression AR 2.67 were continuous (recorded over 1 minute, manually stopped). The data rates calculated by ML were 65-70 MB/s for the scene. Therefore with global draw off, sound record off, sd card overclock 240 hz, 5208x1954 1x3 anamorphic 24 fps 10-bit color depth 14-bit lossless compression AR 2.67 recording can be continuous even at high ISO. If recording 5.2k mode at night in a forest, then changing to 8-bit color depth as the last resort, it will give another 10-20% bandwidth, enough to make the mode continuous.

A very rough first impression of the 5.2k 1x3 footage, the details were great, at the same level as the 1x1 3k footage. Controlled comparison between the two modes is needed though. There were pink frames, mostly at the beginning, some in the middle of the footage.

[IDA_ML]

Mlrocks,

Stay away from 8 bits!  This bit depth produces really ugly colors and artifacts in the dark areas, at least to my experience.  You will be much better off filming at 1x3 1280x2160/10bitLL/24fps where you get continuous recording and excellent image quality.  For landscape videography, I recommend 1x3 1736x2928/16fps.  On the EOS-M this setting produces stunning image quality and as long as you move the camera slowly, the 16 fps have negligible effect on the jerkiness of the footage.  With fast moving objects you get a nice motion blur.  It works with Dual ISO very well too.

[mlrocks]

Mlrocks,

Stay away from 8 bits!  This bit depth produces really ugly colors and artifacts in the dark areas, at least to my experience.  You will be much better off filming at 1x3 1280x2160/10bitLL/24fps where you get continuous recording and excellent image quality.  For landscape videography, I recommend 1x3 1736x2928/16fps.  On the EOS-M this setting produces stunning image quality and as long as you move the camera slowly, the 16 fps have negligible effect on the jerkiness of the footage.  With fast moving objects you get a nice motion blur.  It works with Dual ISO very well too.

Thank you for the useful warning, IDA_ML. I will not use 8-bit color depth. As you mentioned, using lower resolution and/or lower frame rates for continuous recording are the better way to go. 5208 1X3 mode probably is more suitable for 70D due to its higher writing speed.

[mlrocks]

I just went out for a short field shooting using 650D's 4.8k 1x3 mode. I got continuous recording for all of the scenes and green dot for most of the scenes in the mode of 4.8k 1x3 anamorphic 1600x1800 10-bit color depth 14-bit lossless compression 24 fps AR 2.67. I did long takes, from 1 minutes to 9 minutes. The data rate calculated by ML was around 50-55 MB/s. I have not seen any pink frame yet. The shootout was about 1 hour, almost non-stopping, the camera temperature was at about 33 celcius degree finally before I shut down the camera for packaging. So SD card overclocking at 240 hz may not cause overheating severely if the shooting time is less than 4 hours, sd overclocking overheating may appear an issue if shooting a 12-hour day session, but this can be mediated by using two or more cameras, by shutting down cameras during the takes.

Image quality wise, I used ETTR and tried to lower the exposure in MLV App, but if I lowered more than 1.5 stops, there was pink/purple color in the extreme highlight area. If I lowered the exposure to 1 or 1.5 stops, it was fine. There was focus dots, I used chroma smoothing 3x3 to clear them off. I only added contrast and clarity (local contrast?) and some color changes. No sharpening did not matter much, the image looked detailed and enough sharp, like the look of vintage German lenses of being not razor sharp but detailed. The footage looked from the MLV App was sensational, way better than the 1080p 1x1 footage I took at the same venue using 650D and 5D3 during last year.

On 650D, I will use 4.8k 1x3 AR 2.67 if for IQ, UHD 1x3 AR 16:9 if AR 16:9 is required, and 2.8k 1x1 if a super 16mm lens is mounted. On 5D3, I will use 5.7k 1x3 AR 2.67 for IQ, and centered 3.5k 1x1 for super 35mm/APS-C lenses. I hope that an UHD 1x3 60 fps mode can be implemented on 5D3 so that all of the modes on 5D3 and 650D are about 4k level. I think that I am pretty much covered by almost all of the situations using these modes. I will use 5D3 ML for the rest of my life. I don't envy those new "n k cameras".

[IDA_ML]

I will use 5D3 ML for the rest of my life. I don't envy those new "n k cameras".

Well, I wouldn't say no to the continuous tracking DP autofocus, articulating screen and in camera stabilization but we are not going to see ML on the R5/R6 anytime soon :-))).

[mlrocks]

Well, I wouldn't say no to the continuous tracking DP autofocus, articulating screen and in camera stabilization but we are not going to see ML on the R5/R6 anytime soon :-))).

Yeh, these are really nice features. I am eyeing Olympus EM-1 series for these. EM1 3 has the best IBIS, a good articulating screen and a nice EVF, continuous AF is good also. Its on camera 4k codec and image quality is OK but not great. But its HDMI output onto Atomos recorder can be 4k raw, with a cropping factor of about 1.5 (super 16mm). Since Olympus changed ownership, not sure if it is going to have new models. If EM1 4 or EM1 5 reaches the current video features of GH6, then I will pull the trigger.
I really hope that ML can break into the new R5 series, that will be dream.

[Dmytro_ua]

I really hope that ML can break into the new R5 series, that will be dream.

R5 is a great CAM even without ML, so if you can afford it - it's a great choice

[mlrocks]

R5 is a great CAM even without ML, so if you can afford it - it's a great choice

Certainly, R5 has 8k raw. But ML has waveform, false color, etc, only high end cinema cameras have these features. Price wise, R5 is reach $4000, there are a lot of good competitors, like BMPCC 6k pro, Caon C70, etc. These are real video cameras, they are more suitable for video shooting than R5. If today I spend $4000 for a camera specifically for video, I would go BMPCC 6k Pro with an EVF and a battery grip, plus several batteries, totally about $3500. This set up is far better than R5 in terms of video shooting. For photo only, get a 6D2 for full frame is well enough, or an M50 for APS-C. Without ML, 5D4 and R5 and 1DX3 are good but not that appealing.

[mlrocks]

Canon EOS R5 Overheating Tests: The True Story

[mlrocks]

Canon EOS R5 Firmware v1.10 Overheating Tests and Review

[Dmytro_ua]

Canon EOS R5 Overheating Tests: The True Story

It all depends on your shooting style and needs. A lot of ML users are video hobbyists. Overheating is not an issue for a lot of users.
R5 is also a great stills camera, FF, DP autofocus, IBIS, etc. Which is not any of the listed above dedicated video cameras. That's why it's not correct to compare the price. 

If the overheating the only reason not to buy this cam - there are some 3rd-party modifications. It void your warranty, though

[mlrocks]

It all depends on your shooting style and needs. A lot of ML users are video hobbyists. Overheating is not an issue for a lot of users.
R5 is also a great stills camera, FF, DP autofocus, IBIS, etc. Which is not any of the listed above dedicated video cameras. That's why it's not correct to compare the price. 

Seems overheating is Canon's trick to cripple the R5 at the firmware level. The updated firmware has improved the overheating issue a lot.

[mlrocks]

If R5 2 or 3 has the EM1 3 level's IBIS and rolling shutter effects, I will buy it over EM1 4 or 5. Otherwise, EM1 4 or 5 is a better choice.

[70MM13]

Hi everyone,
I was lurking and saw this discussion so I dusted off my 5d3 and shot this little clip using the anamorphic mode, converted to dng using mlvapp, and then stretched and graded in resolve.
I specifically wore the patterned shirt to stress test for moire, and it seems not bad, but if you look closely at my shorts you may notice vertical stripes that shouldn't be there!
But it is pretty subtle.
It's such a treat to have full frame recording.  It makes my 35mm T1.5 really look great!

[Dmytro_ua]

If R5 2 or 3 has the EM1 3 level's IBIS and rolling shutter effects, I will buy it over EM1 4 or 5. Otherwise, EM1 4 or 5 is a better choice.

These are absolutely different animals.
Don't forget that R5 is FullFrame and Olympus is 4/3"
Bigger matrix will have more rolling shutter and less capable IBIS as it has to move a much bigger hardware. Though I've never used Olympus cameras and can say nothing about them.

[mlrocks]

These are absolutely different animals.
Don't forget that R5 is FullFrame and Olympus is 4/3"
Bigger matrix will have more rolling shutter and less capable IBIS as it has to move a much bigger hardware. Though I've never used Olympus cameras and can say nothing about them.

I understand that 4/3 is despised in the photigs, but it is actually very close to 35mm, APS-C is almost super 35mm. I bought an EM5 about 6 years ago and am still keeping it. Its IBIS is really tripod like, as long as you keep using wide and normal lenses. It is just 4 stops IBIS, now EM1 3 is 7 stops IBIS. EM5 doesn't have firmware hack, so its video modes are totally outdated. EM5's photo functions are actually pretty nice and good enough for me even now. I am only using it for photo shooting, mounting vintage MF LTM lenses. I have a collection of vintage MF lenses, so 5D3 ML with no video AF does not bother me at all. I have a Zacuto EVF, so I am fine that 5D3 does not have a swivel LCD. Currently, all of the Canon, Sony, Pany, Pentax cameras don't have any serious IBIS when compared to EM1 3. Yet IBIS is the most important feature if going handheld video shooting.

Sometimes I just wonder about all of these going mirrorless hype. Yes, without mirror the camera can be made smaller, but physics limits the full frame lenses going smaller than 4/3 lenses. I think 4/3 is actually pretty suitable for handheld portable video shooting. With small lenses and cameras and without a tripod, making it very low profile. Unfortunately Olympus and Sony share many critical stock holders, so Olympus is not allowed to bust the Sony video camera market. Otherwise, Oly IBIS is another disruptive handheld revolution in the cinema world after the 5D2/5D3/ML's vista vision sensor size revolution.

[ArcziPL]

Sometimes I just wonder about all of these going mirrorless hype.

For photography mirrorless means for me:
- much better AF: no FF/BF (it was pain in the ass on all my bodies and most of lenses equal to or faster than f/2.8 and I had plenty of them), face/eye-detection, uncomparable more "focus points" -> all in all much faster in use and much more precise AF
- much better auto exposure
- much better DoF control: I can finally see it in the viewfinder; DSLR's viewfinders are just crap, no matter if APS-C or FF
- histogram, additional other overlays, menu and photo review in viewfinder, no need to often switch between viewfinder and main LCD.

Until switching to mirrorless I took most of my shots in LV, just to overcome the above problems. Now I finally have the LV in viewfinder. No more surprises like "oops, I forgot I am in M and all photos are much-underexposed".
Drawbacks: for me none. Higher current consumption is not noticable for me.


What I consider a hype is fullframe. Especially when shooting FF with f/4 lenses. I see no benefit over APS-C.
Mirrorless APS-C or m4/3 is much smaller & ligher but allows same small depth of field (if desired) and amount of photons per photosite just by taking a faster lens. Taking an even faster lens on FF is not possible or not practicable because a) might not exist (there is e.g. no equivalent of Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 Art) b) DoF will be too small. When shooting f/1.4 with APS-C I consider DoF usually too narrow already. f/1.4 on FF is even worse. I don't see a FF+lens combo, which would give me any benefits over APS-C mirrorless with my Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 Art, Sigma 50 mm f/1.4 Art (+speedbooster being a 32mm f/1.0 lens or 50 mm f/1.4 FF equivalent) + a bunch of other lenses including stabilized 10-xx lenses, pocket-sized stabilized x-200mm, pancake 22mm f/2.0 etc.

[mlrocks]

For photography mirrorless means for me:
- much better AF: no FF/BF (it was pain in the ass on all my bodies and most of lenses equal to or faster than f/2.8 and I had plenty of them), face/eye-detection, uncomparable more "focus points" -> all in all much faster in use and much more precise AF
- much better auto exposure
- much better DoF control: I can finally see it in the viewfinder; DSLR's viewfinders are just crap, no matter if APS-C or FF
- histogram, additional other overlays, menu and photo review in viewfinder, no need to often switch between viewfinder and main LCD.

Until switching to mirrorless I took most of my shots in LV, just to overcome the above problems. Now I finally have the LV in viewfinder. No more surprises like "oops, I forgot I am in M and all photos are much-underexposed".
Drawbacks: for me none. Higher current consumption is not noticable for me.


What I consider a hype is fullframe. Especially when shooting FF with f/4 lenses. I see no benefit over APS-C.
Mirrorless APS-C or m4/3 is much smaller & ligher but allows same small depth of field (if desired) and amount of photons per photosite just by taking a faster lens. Taking an even faster lens on FF is not possible or not practicable because a) might not exist (there is e.g. no equivalent of Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 Art) b) DoF will be too small. When shooting f/1.4 with APS-C I consider DoF usually too narrow already. f/1.4 on FF is even worse. I don't see a FF+lens combo, which would give me any benefits over APS-C mirrorless with my Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 Art, Sigma 50 mm f/1.4 Art (+speedbooster being a 32mm f/1.0 lens or 50 mm f/1.4 FF equivalent) + a bunch of other lenses including stabilized 10-xx lenses, pocket-sized stabilized x-200mm, pancake 22mm f/2.0 etc.

I agree that APS-C or 4/3 mirrorless systems are actually better than FF to get all of the benefits for going smaller and going lv.

[mlrocks]

For photography mirrorless means for me:
- much better AF: no FF/BF (it was pain in the ass on all my bodies and most of lenses equal to or faster than f/2.8 and I had plenty of them), face/eye-detection, uncomparable more "focus points" -> all in all much faster in use and much more precise AF
- much better auto exposure
- much better DoF control: I can finally see it in the viewfinder; DSLR's viewfinders are just crap, no matter if APS-C or FF
- histogram, additional other overlays, menu and photo review in viewfinder, no need to often switch between viewfinder and main LCD.

Until switching to mirrorless I took most of my shots in LV, just to overcome the above problems. Now I finally have the LV in viewfinder. No more surprises like "oops, I forgot I am in M and all photos are much-underexposed".
Drawbacks: for me none. Higher current consumption is not noticable for me.


What I consider a hype is fullframe. Especially when shooting FF with f/4 lenses. I see no benefit over APS-C.
Mirrorless APS-C or m4/3 is much smaller & ligher but allows same small depth of field (if desired) and amount of photons per photosite just by taking a faster lens. Taking an even faster lens on FF is not possible or not practicable because a) might not exist (there is e.g. no equivalent of Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 Art) b) DoF will be too small. When shooting f/1.4 with APS-C I consider DoF usually too narrow already. f/1.4 on FF is even worse. I don't see a FF+lens combo, which would give me any benefits over APS-C mirrorless with my Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 Art, Sigma 50 mm f/1.4 Art (+speedbooster being a 32mm f/1.0 lens or 50 mm f/1.4 FF equivalent) + a bunch of other lenses including stabilized 10-xx lenses, pocket-sized stabilized x-200mm, pancake 22mm f/2.0 etc.

Like you, I used live view shooting on Canon DSLR before I got an EM5 with an evf. I agree with you on all of the benefits for LV shooting. However, there are advantages using an optical view finder. Hollywood high end cinema cameras used to have optical view finders for old school DPs. The main point of using an optical view finder is no lag if the subject is moving. I found out that another great benefit of the optical view finder for myself is that the optical view finder is very good to the eyesight, much protective than evf.

[mlrocks]

Interestingly, 70D actually is 5.4k 5472 x 3648 in full resolution mode. This is almost like 5D3's 5.7k 5760 x 3840. Both of 70D and 5D3's full resolution 1x3 modes may not be equal to a 5.5k to 6k raw 1x1 camera, but should be very well equal to a 4k raw 1x1 camera.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-70d/2
70D has a maximal writing speed of 80 MB/s. In the future, there may be another 10 MB/s improvement if sd card overclocking is configured in an optimized way. Even with the 80 MB/s threshold, 70D can do continuous 5.4k 1x3 anamorphic AR 2.67 24 fps 10-bit color depth 14-bit lossless compression with a data rate of about 75 MB/s for a relative complex scene. The image quality may be comparable to RED One's 4k raw R3D at the highest compression ratio of 3.
70D's dual pixel live view AF is very good in video mode, when coupled with STM lenses.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-70d/13
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-70d/12

[Audionut]

I've briefly used a friends AR7, and the most striking thing for me was how easy it is to take an image with an exposure that in no way shape or form resembles that shown on the liveview or EVF. Surely there must be a setting to adjust that, but in any case, it was interesting being able to change the shutter 4 stops and have both the liveview and EVF show the exact same brightness.

With a regular old bouncy mirror VF, there's always the exposure meter. And while it too has it's quirks, it's never been 4 stops or more wrong! Anyway....

For the same DOF and FOV, f/4.0 on a FF is equivalent to f/2.5 on the crop. All else being reasonably equal, I'll take an f/4.0 lens (or same lens at f/4.0) over a f/2.5 lens, solely because of sharpness.

If DOF isn't an issue, then I'll take the 1 and 1/3rd stop more light hitting the sensor, without even blinking, but that's just me.

[mlrocks]

Just tested 650D's crop new v2 modules preset 1736x2214 1x3, with AR 2.67, the resolution is 1736x1954. It is 10-bit, 14-bit lossless, 24 fps. This preset uses the super35/aps-c full width. The benchmark for this mode is 60 MB/s for 128 GB below Sandisk Extreme Pro 170 MB/s sd cards. For a 256 GB below Sandisk Extreme Pro 170 MB/s sd card, the nominal benchmark is 45 MB/s, actually it can be continuous as long as the data flow is below 60 MB/s.

For a relative complex scene with some trees full of green leaves at ISO 100, the data flow is about 65 MB/s. 650D can record in this mode for 150 frames, that is more than 5 seconds, enough for typical uses. For extreme cases, a scene with some trees full of green leaves at ISO 1600, the data flow is peaked at 70-75 MB/s, 650D can record 70-80 frames, about 3 seconds. As long as it is 3 to 5 seconds, human eyes accept this as a movie.

If the benchmark in this mode can be optimized to 65 MB/s like what is in the UHD 1x3 preset, or even improved to 75-80 MB/s like in 70D, this mode can be robustly continuous, good for long takes like interviews.

650D's crop new v2 modules preset 1736x2214 1x3, AR 2.67, 1736x1954, 10-bit, 14-bit lossless, 24 fps, super35/aps-c full width, is 5.2k anamorphic 1x3. Its IQ is equal to 4k raw 1x1 cameras, at least with a high compression ratio of 12. I would rate 650D as a super 35mm 4k raw camera.

I did some field shots with AR 3, 1736x2214 1x3, 1736x1954, 10-bit, 14-bit lossless, 24 fps, super35/aps-c full width. It was continuous at ISO 100 for a typical street scene. The data flow was about 55-60 MB/s. The IQ is even better than the UHD 1x3 in full screen mode. The IQ is very cinematic like. AR 3 is actually very cinematic, although not conventional.

For pp, I used MLV App latest version. Although it is not recommended, I used MLV App's sharpening at 30-50 for 1x3 footage. The sharpness is good enough. I have not noticed artifacts in full screen mode. When it is over 70 in sharpening, the artifacts are noticeable. So MLV App is fine for me to do the whole pp, before I do editing in Blender's video editor. There is no need for DaVinci Resolve, unless high end cc is required.

Thanks theBilalFakhouri for his great work.

[mlrocks]

I did some ISO tests on 650D comparing 1x3 UHD and 1x1 1920x1280 presets. At ISO 200-400 in 1x1 1920x1280 preset, the noise level was comparable to that at ISO 1600 in 1x3 UHD preset. There was about 2-3 stops difference.

Unless there is a specific reason, there is no reason to use smaller sensor presets.

[mlrocks]

I did a stress test of landscape on 650D comparing 1x3 5.2k AR 3, 1x3 4.5k AR 2.67, and 1x3 UHD AR 16:9.
5.2k footage is significantly better than UHD, a tad better than 4.5k. 5.2k 1x3 is the preset with the highest IQ on 650D.
Hope on 650D a 5.2k preset can be created with a benchmark compatible with UHD, 68 MB/s, to make 1x3 5.2k AR 2.67 continuous.