A preset on 5d3 of true 5.7k raw 24p aspect ratio 5?

[mlrocks]

On my 650D, I just tested that with Alex's Crop New module, in 1:1 full resolution preset, with maximal fps, 5200x1042, aspect ratio 5, I can get continuous recording with that yummy green dot. If I change the option to Canon Menu (24p) or 23.97p, the resolution changes to 5200x700, I get green dot again.

It seems that the hardware can record full resolution at 24 fps. The limiting bottle neck is the writing speed. If this is the case, adjusting aspect ratio instead of reducing fps is another approach and more practical.

On my 5D3, I only have presets of 4K 12 fps and full res 7.4 fps. I wonder if I can get full res 5.7k 24 fps with an aspect ratio of 5, like 5720x1124 24 fps. That will make 5D3 very advanced. Similarly, a preset of 4096 24p with an aspect ratio of 3 is also very useful.

[IDA_ML]

You may want to check out this 4k/24fps preset:

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=26105.msg235670;topicseen#msg235670

Works very well with 16:9 AR and a small 1,38x crop factor. 

[mlrocks]

Thanks a lot for your quick reply, IDA_ML. I actually downloaded your video and watched it. Very nice IQ. Your daughter looks beautiful. Your family members are friendly.

I am actually looking for real 4K and 5.7K presets, not anamorphic 1x3 presets. I can actually record anamorphic 1:3 12-bit 14-bit lossless 1920x2340 continuously on my 5D3 with card spanning and sd card overclocking at 160 hz.

Previously I thought that 5D3 hardware does not allow 24 p 5720 full res raw stream. But after playing around my 650D using Alex's Crop New module, I realized that 24 p 5200 full res raw stream on 650D is there. The only bottle neck is the writing speed. Of course, on 650D, when I use Alex's Crop New module, all of the presets have severe color taint, either a lot of red or a lot green in the dark area. But I think that is fixable as the module gets mature.

The key point here is that 5D3 may be the same as 650D, it may have 24 P 5720 full res raw stream. With the recent development of card spanning and sd overclocking, 5720x1040 asp ratio of 5 24 p and 4096x1365 24 p with an aspect ratio of 3 may work continuously in 10-bit 14-bit lossless mode.

Currently, 5D3 only has 160 hz SD overclocking option. Together with card spanning, 5D3 has a writing speed of 80+50=130 MB/s. Not sure if the hardware allows 240 hz overclocking. If so, another 20 MB/s will be helpful. With card spanning on, 5D3 has a writing speed potential of 80+70=150 MB/s. Helped by 14-bit lossless with a compression ratio of 1.5 to 2, depending on ISO levels and scene complexity, 4k raw 4096x1706 asp ratio 2.4 with a data flow speed of 180 MB/s may work out on 5D3.

4k raw 4096x1534 asp ratio 2.67 with a data flow speed of 150 MB/s is low-hanging fruit, considering that 3840x1536 asp ratio 2.4 10 bit 14-bit lossless works in most scenes now on 5D3, and the latter has almost the same data flow as the former one. In other words, even at the current status of SD overclocking 160 hz, changing width from 3840 to 4096 and aspect ratio from 2.4 to 2.67, will allow 5D3 to record 4 K raw. The aspect ratio of 2.67 is actually an official one, with many Hollywood features adopting this aspect ratio.

[IDA_ML]

MLrocks,

I would advise you to stay away from SD-overclocking on the 5D3, especially if you do serious work.  It is not very reliable.  The mode that I filmed the highschool graduation party with proved to be very reliable and I did not use card spanning nor overclocking.  I did not have a single glitch or corrupt frame during the entire session.  As far as image quality is concerned, there is barely a difference between the anamorphic 1x3 and the 1:1 mode.  You can notice a very slight difference only if you pixel peep at 100% magnification. But who watches movies at 100% magnification or AR of 5? If you absolutely need the 1:1 mode, you will be better off using the 3,5k crop recording mode and compensate for the crop factor with wider focal lengths.

Good luck!

[mlrocks]

Thanks a lot for the advice, IDA_ML. It is good to know that 1x3 is almost as good as 1x1. I did some tests myself and found out that 1x3 full frame 5.7k is very detailed and crystal clear, good enough for a 27-inch computer screen. The reason that I was a little bit worried about 1x3 is that I watched ZEEK's videos on EOS-M and he said that 1x3 is not as detailed as 1x1. I guess that both of you are right. The key point may be that the difference is not that significant, which is definitely a good news, because I realize that full frame imaging is very delicious not only for the resolution but may due to the large sensor size.

I did several sessions of 3.5K 10-bit shots with card spanning and sd overclocking. Actually the footage is very reliable, without significant corruption. My SD card is a 64 GB Sandisk Extreme Pro 170MB/S overclocked at 240 hz. I now gradually establish the habit of turning off the camera during takings, so that the camera cools down quickly. If the temperature keeps at 50 C or above, maybe corrupted frames will show up many more. I guess that the SD card choice and the camera temperature are the two most important factors to create good footage.

Card spanning and sd overclocking makes 5D3 at the same level as Red One, yet with a significant smaller footprint, guaranteeing all kinds of benefits of portability. You definitely want to try it.

[mlrocks]

Using 650D's Crop New module, the anamorphic 1x3 5200(1736)x2167 has an average 75 MB/s for complex scenes.
Canon 70D has a better writing speed than 650D and M, reaching 80 MB/s. So, theoretically 70D can do continuous anamorphic full resolution AR2.4 10 bit 14-bit lossless. Together with powerful live view AF, 70D is a killer with a preset of anamorphic full resolution raw video.

[IDA_ML]

"The key point may be that the difference is not that significant, which is definitely a good news, because I realize that full frame imaging is very delicious not only for the resolution but may due to the large sensor size."

This is exactly the key point for me why I prefer the 1x3 anamorphic modes.  The beautiful full frame vision is much more important to me than the very slight and insignificant image quality degradation of 1x3 vs. 1x1.  For high-quality wide angle lanscape videography, I often use the 5720x3240 mode at 15 fps and also get very stable recordings.  As far as camera temperature is concerned, I performed tests in which I filmed in the 1x3 mode consequently filling several 64 GB cards with continuous footage and temperature never exceeded 47 deg. C on the 5D3 at 25 deg. C ambient.  Never had a problem with camera overheating.

[mlrocks]

When the sd overclocking is activated, camera temperature goes up quickly. The cards especially sd cards get warm. Maybe this is the root cause of many errors. Simply turning off the camera will cool down the camera, comparing to the standby mode. I notice that typically during the takes there is some time like several minutes, good enough for the camera to cool down. With this measure implemented, I don't have any serious issues with the 3.5k centered or 5.7k anormorphic footage.

[mlrocks]

If the following assumptions can be realized on 5D3:
1. Full resolution 5.7k raw stream 30 fps or even 60 fps is there and can be recorded
2. SD overclock can reach 240 hz with a Sandisk 170 MB/s sd card

The following modes may be continuous on 5D3:
1. Full resolution 5.7k 10-bit 14-bit lossless compression AR 2.67 16 fps, making this mode very practical for landscape shooting requiring recording a lot of details.
2. 4K 4096 10-bit 14-bit lossless compression AR 2.67 24p, making 5D3 a Red One mini. Red One RedRaw has a compression ratio of 3 at its best, although with 12-bit color depth. Therefore, Red One's best RedRaw image quality is probably very similar to 5D3's ML 10-bit 4k raw footage with a compression ratio of 1.5 to 2.5.
3. UHD 3840 10-bit 14-bit lossless compression AR 2.4 24p, making UHD on 5D3 very robust, continuous at all conditions.

If the full resolution 5.7k raw stream can be directed into Canon's on-camera M264 encoding engine, 5.7k H264 mp4 24p ,30p, or even 60p can be reached. This is on par with the latest GH6, S1H, R5, 1DX3. On the other hand, most people watch streamed videos on their smart phones or laptops nowadays, the resolution at 2k/1080p is good enough, not to say 3k to 4k or higher. In short, 5D3 will be there forever for practical video shooting.

[IDA_ML]

... In short, 5D3 will be there forever for practical video shooting.

I absolutely agree.  Even if you don't use SD-overclocking for consistent low temperature operation and stability, the above statement still applies!  In my opinion, the ony two advantages of the latest R5/R6 models over the 5D3 are the tracking DP auto focus and the articulating screen - not enough to spend so much money for the upgrade.

[mlrocks]

R5's 8k raw is a marketing gimmick. R5's in camera stock raw codec has a compression ratio of 5 to 6, and less than five adjustable parameters. R5's 10-bit 4:2:2 4k H265 is a reliable option, but it is not raw.
I use a Zecuto external monitor as a vari-angle screen for 5D3. it is mounted on a very small size very light carbon fiber rail system. This setup is good enough for 90-95% of the typical video shooting scenarios. In less than 10% of the cases where video AF and on-camera flip screen are needed, such as Gimble or Steadicam work, a complementary 70D can be used. When SD overclock is set to 240 hz, 70D can have 80 MB/s writing speed, making it possible to record continuously in the mode of APS-C (Super 35mm) full width 5.2k 1736x2160 anamorphic 1x3 10 bit 14 bit lossless compression AR 2.4 24p.

[IDA_ML]

Thanks a lot, MLrocks, for this discussion.  I hope, the 5D3 users will find the information useful.

[mlrocks]

Thank you too for your sharing, IDA_ML. Without ML, 5D3 would have been outdated many years ago. It is amazing that ML makes 5D3 a permanent legend for video shooting. Kudos to Alex and all ML contributors.