Author Topic: apply Canon camera profiles (standard/faithful etc) to ML raw video files (DNG)?  (Read 891 times)

AlanSmithee

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Hi,
I am running into an issue with colours when shooting raw video: the colours are slightly off (especially the reds tend to be slightly pinkish).

I know from raw photography that applying canon camera profiles (lightroom camera calibaration) usually sorts out this issue, but:
I can not find the canon camera profiles anywhere available on MLVapp or da vinci resolve.

Manually trying to replicate the correct colours is a pain.
Has anyone here found a way to replicate these colour profiles? or, alternatively, are there camera LUTs (available for da vinci resolve) that do the same?

thanks ;)

AlanSmithee

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I just did a few more tests:

I noticed that when I switch off 'User camera Matrix' in MLVapp (set to ' don't use camera matrix') - the colour artifacts disappear and I get a pretty nicely balanced image!

However: The adjustments are not taken into account when exporting the sequence as DNG.

Is there any way I can force MLVapp to save these adjustments into DNGs?
Or, can I do the same adjustments in Da VinciResolve somewhere? None of the colour space / LUT settings seem to be anywhere near.

Obviously, the perfect solution would be to have the original Canon camera profiles available somewhere, but I havent found anything about that yet...


Danne

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Dng = raw.
If you like what you see export to a high res codec like prores.

AlanSmithee

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no, I definitely want to use RAW footage.
The profiles I am looking for would provide a decent colour 'remapping' while still providing the full dynamic range.

It is possible to manually grade the images in Da Vinci Resolve to get close to the 'original' colours, especially when filming reference colour charts etc, but it would make thing so much easier if i had access to a proper camera profile.

It is very likely that the adjustment needs to be made directly in Da Vinci, and MLVapp won't be of much help in that part.
I would be surprised if noone ever did camera profiles for the 5d MLV to be used in Da Vinci, though...

Danne

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What camera profile do you mean?
If you study dng spec white paper and also specifically cdng specs you will start to understand what's going on.
Long story short. Dng format starts with adobe and all the metadata relates to adobe camera raw which is a black box.
Other programs interprets dng tags differently so better to work with raw files directly where you end up exporting your final file.


AlanSmithee

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the camera profiles i mean are the ones found in lightroom (or similar software):

/camera calibration/ process (2012(current))
/camera calibration/ profile: adobe standard(colours are off), faithful, landscape, neutral, portrait, standard

they are basically providing the same look as the colour profiles for 8bit images in-camera, BUT: they also remap the colours accurately when using RAW files. without these profiles, some colours are displayed/mapped totally wrong. it is particularly noticeable with reds, that are being displayed far oversaturated, and almost pink.

Without these profiles, it can be almost impossible to accurately colourgrade raw files coming from the 5d.
(there are many LUTs in da vinci resolve to provide these colourprofiles for all kinds of cameras, but not for the 5d mk iii, since it doesn't officially record raw video)

I get the by far best results (=seemingly correct colours) so far, by disabling the 'camera matrix' in the MLVapp. Obviously that wont give me the look of a specific canon camera profile, but thats not what i am after. All I want is to get rid of obvious wrong colours.

Inside Da Vinci Resolve, I haven't found a good workflow yet...

And yes, I think it is the Adobe Camera Raw that is responsible for the slightly wrong colour 'mapping'.
Basically, by using a canon camera profile in Lightroom, I disable/resplace the 'Adobe Standard' profile, which comes in by default. And colours are immediately more accurate.

 

Danne

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Adobe, dng and canon profiles are tightly connected so basically stay in after effects or lightroom for that to work.

Kharak

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Without these profiles, it can be almost impossible to accurately colourgrade raw files coming from the 5d.
(there are many LUTs in da vinci resolve to provide these colourprofiles for all kinds of cameras, but not for the 5d mk iii, since it doesn't officially record raw video).

This is just plain wrong. Just set input to Linear and what ever output you want from there.
once you go raw you never go back

AlanSmithee

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and the large amount of camera profiles (LUTs as well as colourspaces) in da vinci (or other software) is just for decoration purposes?
working with 'raw' is not only about dynamic range, it is also about accurately mapping the colour values.

sure, it is possible to completely ignore these things and get nice results. but being able to start the grading from an 'accurate' image would be nice.
I found some settings that worked better for me than others, but I would love to find the 'right' settings to start from.

Kharak

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You have a preconcieved idea of the raw workflow that is wrong.

If you are clinging to some luts for your grading, then they will expect a certain input and then you have to bring the RAW footage down to this input. You can set input to linear and output to rec709 for a “normal” look. Or set output to any of the major log profiles.

But raw is raw, its 14 bit footage that you can do anything with and only your skills or lack of it in the grading suite will determine the end result.

And yes, imo the luts in resolve are for decorative purposes.
once you go raw you never go back

Milk and Coffee

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What is the benefit of first converting to linear? In Davinci, is that using the OFX Color Space Transform to linear, then again from linear to 709?
Canon 5D Mark II, Mac/OSX

allemyr

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For me it sounds like you should grade your MLV footage in Lightroom.

Davinci Resolve can take a while to learn, especially the raw settings.

Kharak

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What is the benefit of first converting to linear? In Davinci, is that using the OFX Color Space Transform to linear, then again from linear to 709?

There is no “true” benefit, you can grade directly from linear space and get exact same results as grading a linear to C-log, rec709 or what ever conversion you need. You just have to pull it differently.

I just mentioned rec709 because most people think its the be all end all standard.

the mlv raw data is linear data, so if you want to do a color space transform to match with other cameras color space or you have luts that expect a certain input (they all do), the correct transform is Input: Linear to what ever color space you want. This is a great way to ensure all footage has the same starting point and you can apply your powergrade to all and the matching will be much easier, but mixing with non-raw cameras you would ideally create another node first for LGG and use the offset to maybe increase/decrease exposure to match better with your raw adjustments.

You can do the transform in RCM (resolve color managment) and for mixing other cameras you can right click the clips in color page and set the input color space for that that clip.

Or use CST when you like or if you want to manipulate some combination of color space and gamma for creative purposes, but it can all be done with the tools.

Edit: 1st its very important that you have a calibrated monitor or as close to it

2nd set your output color space and gamma in the render page to ensure you don‘t have out of gamut mapping. Also a good practice is to watch your final render on set device, so if you are delivering for television, check the footage on a TV, preferably many to find what your average product will look like (they will all look different depending on brand). Ofcourse, if for HDR watch it on HDR tv‘s, and when for internet, check on different conputer monitors, phones etc..
once you go raw you never go back

Milk and Coffee

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Thanks kharak! I prefer to use unmanaged YRGB. I’m not by my computer, but I believe YRGB requires debayer to either be 709, P3, or BMD Film. If I debayer with BMD film, then CST to linear, is that any different than starting with linear as an input with YRGB Color managed?
Canon 5D Mark II, Mac/OSX

Milk and Coffee

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Nevermind, I see we can debayer straight to linear with CDNG in Davinci Resolve 👌
Canon 5D Mark II, Mac/OSX