Danne's crop_rec_4k experiments for EOS M

[ngemu]

Tested out the Ikan vl35 on the 5k mode. I read how there will be pink frame drops but I was really praying it might not happen to me ....but it did. lol 

Here is a video to show what it looks like. Also, I couldn't get 'framing mode' just a live view where everything was distorted.

[Danne]

Test it on 5k anamorphic rewired mode. I never use external monitors, certainly not on eosm, but try to lower resolution to a degree where it´s free from corruption. If that is what is needed I don´t know.

[turnlemons2lemonade]

Using a external monitor for either framing or recording yourself is crucial. Also it helps to know if a recording stopped so uou can just start over.

[Danne]

Even more cruicial for users to do tests and reports...

[turnlemons2lemonade]

Yeah so here's what I discovered after recording 3 videos in RAW for my channel. This are more like workflow but also some small bugs that would be nice if fixed.

Exporting RAW to ProRes
It seems that when converting from RAW to ProRes makes no difference either from SD card to SSD or copying files and converting after, so don't know if this is good for SD card's life but it saves me from copying the files over the computer and just convert to ProRes. Export time seems to be the same. This might not be the best idea though and probably would be best to copy to SSD before.

Using a External Monitor (1080p feed)
Pink dropped frames are inconsistent and can't be controlled, it seems that sometimes I get NO DROP FRAMES using 14bit, but I get dropped frames using 10bit WITH external monitor.
What I do at the moment to work around this is just set the framing and exposure and turn it off while using the Canon IR Remote to do the cuts in camera. This wouldn't work in a Run & Gun scenario though so probably would be better off using a magnetic EVF.

I did get some clean 45 seconds takes using MCM Rewire 14bit 16:9 with Kill Global Draw ON, but sometimes I can't get more than 5 sec without pink dropped frames, so still better option to be safe just turn it of. In case of headshot / interview type videos, it might be ok because you could just put broll on top and fix it in post. But I hate that!

Working with MLV App
MLVApp works better for scanning the RAW video BEFORE applying corrections / processing so I can scan a video and see if it's good, if not delete it and AFTER process it for export.
I love the results coming out of this app, basically just using the Rec709 conversion and white balance picker & some sharpen. After that I pull the video in FCPX and grade it there, as FCPX is much more responsive with MOV.

Sometimes MLV App just froze when exporting clips, so better to just export 5 clips at a time if longer and quit the app and come back. Yeah, not the best experience but it is what it is.

Recording videos for YouTube
Recording videos for long format (1-3 minutes) in 14bit / 10bit is better split between cuts - using the basic Canon IR Remote works like a wonder, it also makes your job easier in editing. Even though I would prefer to have 1 long 10 minutes video and chop it up, converting a 10min RAW video in MLVApp takes like 6 hours, which is totally not doable.

I did get a 1:35 min clip using 10bit, monitor OFF without any dropframes, looking great. Exporting RAW to ProRes for this takes 45 minutes though. That would not be a problem, however sometimes after this long export times MLVApp just stops responding and you basically loose the export too. So that's why I think it's better to do the cuts in camera if possible, or at least as close as you can & keep everything short.

[ZEEK]

Pink dropped frames are inconsistent and can't be controlled, it seems that sometimes I get NO DROP FRAMES using 14bit, but I get dropped frames using 10bit WITH external monitor.
What I do at the moment to work around this is just set the framing and exposure and turn it off while using the Canon IR Remote to do the cuts in camera. This wouldn't work in a Run & Gun scenario though so probably would be better off using a magnetic EVF.

I did get some clean 45 seconds takes using MCM Rewire 14bit 16:9 with Kill Global Draw ON, but sometimes I can't get more than 5 sec without pink dropped frames, so still better option to be safe just turn it of. In case of headshot / interview type videos, it might be ok because you could just put broll on top and fix it in post. But I hate that!

Recording videos for long format (1-3 minutes) in 14bit / 10bit is better split between cuts - using the basic Canon IR Remote works like a wonder, it also makes your job easier in editing. Even though I would prefer to have 1 long 10 minutes video and chop it up, converting a 10min RAW video in MLVApp takes like 6 hours, which is totally not doable.

I did get a 1:35 min clip using 10bit, monitor OFF without any drop frames, looking great. Exporting RAW to ProRes for this takes 45 minutes though. That would not be a problem, however sometimes after this long export times MLVApp just stops responding and you basically lose the export too. So that's why I think it's better to do the cuts in camera if possible, or at least as close as you can & keep everything short.

1). The EOS M2 works perfectly with any monitor in RAW, ZERO pink frames every single time: Magic . With the Canon EOS M, it can be a bit of "hit and miss". Try enable 16:9 if not enabled (2.39:1, 2.35:1, [16:9]), go to Display tab towards the bottom and select "advance setting", screen layout 16:9 HDMI, t/b. On your monitor select 1080i 60HZ instead of 480p. 480p was suggested a while ago when MCM Rewire wasn't around.
2). Possibility for a speedy export process: For long videos for your YT Channel, try exporting in MLV App using CDNG Uncompressed/Lossless and use other editors such as Davinci Resolve (16) to export the final product, it's free and really good.
- I'm using a Macbook PRO 2012 upgraded to 16GB Ram, 512GB SSD (this is key), i5 etc....MLV Files load really well with prores 4444. Maybe you can get an "External SSD Drive" and export .MLV files onto that. Also, the card reader spec e.g. 3.0 transfer speed is important.   
 

[turnlemons2lemonade]

Hi Zeek, thx for your feedback. Ok, will check it out and report back. Unfortunately all I have is the EOS M and wanna makw the most of it. Yeah I do have a SSD that I'm using, will try 4444 too.

Later edit:
DNG to ProRes using DaVinci is so much faster. A clip of 1:45 takes around 3 minutes to export from MLV App and 1:10 from Davinci, much better! Thanks man!

After doing some tests, I can report that it's still dropping frames. I did set the display to 16:8 t/b in advanced settings but still I'm getting dropped frames when using external monitor. It was already on 1080i 60hz.

I'm using a Sandisk Extreme Pro 170MB/s V30 version.
Here are my settings:

how to upload an image to the internet

Both 14bit / 10bit had dropped frames like this:

how to upload an image to the internet

[critix]

For those who have the latest firmware version on EOSM, 2.0.3, I put the latest version of Danne, modified for firmware 2.0.3:
https://bitbucket.org/ccritix/magic-lantern/downloads/magiclantern-Nightly.2019Oct04.EOSM203.zip

LE: I restored the archive, because something was missing ...

[Danne]

After doing some tests, I can report that it's still dropping frames. I did set the display to 16:8 t/b in advanced settings but still I'm getting dropped frames when using external monitor. It was already on 1080i 60hz.

Turn off histogram and the slightly sharper thingy.
Zeek is on to something about m2. I suspect raw_slurp vs canon native buffer which is what Zeek is using on his m2. Seems this could give a slight overhead but then all that is working for that cam is the mcm rewired mode.

[masc]

Working with MLV App
MLVApp works better for scanning the RAW video BEFORE applying corrections / processing so I can scan a video and see if it's good, if not delete it and AFTER process it for export.
I love the results coming out of this app, basically just using the Rec709 conversion and white balance picker & some sharpen. After that I pull the video in FCPX and grade it there, as FCPX is much more responsive with MOV.

Sometimes MLV App just froze when exporting clips, so better to just export 5 clips at a time if longer and quit the app and come back. Yeah, not the best experience but it is what it is.

...

I did get a 1:35 min clip using 10bit, monitor OFF without any dropframes, looking great. Exporting RAW to ProRes for this takes 45 minutes though. That would not be a problem, however sometimes after this long export times MLVApp just stops responding and you basically loose the export too. So that's why I think it's better to do the cuts in camera if possible, or at least as close as you can & keep everything short.

What are you doing? Do you use DualIso or is your PC running on extremely low power? For >450GB MLV (90min, 350 clips) my 8 years old computer needed 12h for rendering to ProRes via MLVApp... can't believe that your computer needs so long for that few seconds clips. I also never got a crash or freeze with that. If you get crashes/freezes, please post into MLVApp thread how to reproduce. Without such information it won't become better.

I would not really grade in FCPX, because quality is sooo bad in comparison.

[ngemu]

@turnlemons2lemonad

What is your ISO on? I would probably need to test it out more but using mcm rewire w/ my Ikan VL35 field monitor, I get no pink frame drops when iso was set to 100. When I tried it out at night at iso ~1600, I was getting pink frames like crazy.

higher iso = more cpu intensive?

[OlRivrRat]

       @MASC

"I would not really grade in FCPX, because quality is sooo bad in comparison."

In comparison to what ? Please ~

[masc]

       @MASC

"I would not really grade in FCPX, because quality is sooo bad in comparison."

In comparison to what ? Please ~

Grading in MLVApp offers a 16bit pipeline (which should be mostly used after WB correction and tonemap). After exporting to ProRes a lot of (bitdepth) information is lost forever. When grading now in any NLE, you'll get easily artifacts and banding. Using FCPX those artifacts are visible in most cases. At least on my machines FCPX grading could never satisfy.

[dfort]

In case you haven't been following the news, Sigma announced some new EF-M mount lenses:



All three primes will set you back about $1,000 or about 6x the cost of a used EOS M body.

[ngemu]

too bad they dont have image stabilization on them 

[turnlemons2lemonade]

What are you doing? Do you use DualIso or is your PC running on extremely low power? For >450GB MLV (90min, 350 clips) my 8 years old computer needed 12h for rendering to ProRes via MLVApp... can't believe that your computer needs so long for that few seconds clips. I also never got a crash or freeze with that. If you get crashes/freezes, please post into MLVApp thread how to reproduce. Without such information it won't become better.

I would not really grade in FCPX, because quality is sooo bad in comparison.

This is what I do:
1. Copy MLVs from SD to iMac (40GB RAM, i5, SSD)
2. Drop into MLV
3. Apply basic R709 correction and white balance
4. Export into ProRes 422 LT or ProRes
5. Take around 8 min for 10 seconds and what I already wrote for longer

It seems that the workflow Zeek shared provides the quickest export. DNG Fast Pass is the fastest takes 1 minute for 4 minutes clips, while DNG Uncompressed is a bit longer with 4 ninutes.

Davinci Resolve just flies exporting takes like nothing.

Grading in FCPX is just much faster compared to using MLVApp because after you apply a grade it is much slower.

@Danne will try that too

[masc]

@turnlemons2lemonade: it is still off-topic here (that's why I wrote "post in the MLVApp thread"). Anyway...
If I do exactly the same as you described, a 10sec clip needs 2:30min here on my 9 years old Core2Duo (dual core), on my iMac 2011 I mostly get more than the double speed as from this Core2Duo. So something is strange with your system.

"Quick" depends on what you are doing after this export. DNG export is quick, yes, but after this, processing starts and is slow again. Davinci needs more or less the same time on my computers like MLVApp (but I don't have a monster GPU - sure it would be faster if you have one). DNG Fast Pass export in MLVApp is fastest, because no RAW Correction is applied (e.g. Focus Pixels will still be there).

Sure... grading in FCPX is fast, therefor you'll get artifacts as described. I recommend to grade in one step - so from MLV to final-color or from DNG to final-color.

[Luther]

I can confirm what @masc is saying. I have a AMD Ryzen 5 and 10s of MLV takes less than 2min (sometimes it takes less than 1min - from MLV to ProRes444).
@turnlemons2lemonade if you want, send me one 10s MLV. I can export and measure the time it takes, so you can compare. 8min for 10s is just not correct.

About the grading: what tools you have on FCPX that you can't find on MLVApp? Grading directly on MLVApp (with wide-gamut) is much better than grading on FCPX. It's not a matter of opinion on this, it is just technically better.

[turnlemons2lemonade]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. Greatly appreciate it!

So far it seems that even with the Histogram & Peaking turned off I still get some shorter dropped frames. Best bet is just use ML without a monitor.
Also thx @Zeek for the DNG thing, it's much faster for me now to edit and I don't feel like I'm getting old while doing the export.

For this video I just color corrected and converted to Rec709, exported to DNG and cut into FCPX and that's it.

I ordered a Sigma 18-35 because I think that lens will put a lot of value into this little thing with 14bit raw it will just smash everything in it's way.

Would be great to find a way to use the external monitor though. Any other suggestions?

[Luther]

Also thx @Zeek for the DNG thing, it's much faster for me now to edit and I don't feel like I'm getting old while doing the export.

For this video I just color corrected and converted to Rec709, exported to DNG and cut into FCPX and that's it.

You just ignored the reply of a main MLVApp developer. Not just ignored, but also ironized it ("feel like I'm getting old"). That's quite disrespectful, sir.
We are not selling you anything, btw. MLVApp is open source and free software. Everybody using it is encouraged to report bugs.

Any other suggestions?

You won't get anything from me anymore.

ps: This is not a place for self-promotion.

[Stousen]

You just ignored the reply of a main MLVApp developer. Not just ignored, but also ironized it ("feel like I'm getting old"). That's quite disrespectful, sir.
We are not selling you anything, btw. MLVApp is open source and free software. Everybody using it is encouraged to report bugs.
You won't get anything from me anymore.

ps: This is not a place for self-promotion.

+1

[turnlemons2lemonade]

Look guys, I'm not here to argue. Not that you provided any useful information @Luther.
I don't have time for that, neither I know who is what or care for the drama. I have removed the video above so there is no conflict.

Anyway, at this point this is the easiest workflow I found (for my use) using ML latest build from Danne.

MLVApp is really a great tool and it works great for conversion and grading, I was just complaining about the long export times to ProRes.
Exporting 1:45 to ProRes 422 takes more or less around 3 hours.
Exporting 1:45 to DNG (with small adjustments done to the raw) takes 4 minutes.

ISO 100 - it seems there might be something going on here, I did record around 30 secs without any drop frames at ISO 100 but we can't always do that. So, not a viable option.
At the moment only workaround I found as a conclusion is if I want 100% clean frames just turn off the monitor and it should be fine. Otherwise it's a game of luck.

I'm going to continue testing ignoring the above. My goal is to shoot continuous MCM Rewire 14bit with a external monitor and a fully build out cinema rig.

@masc I'm sorry if you feel offended in any way. That was not my intention.

[ricardopt]

turnlemons2lemonade let us know if you find a way to use the monitor without any problems, i was about to buy that same monitor with the DC out to power the EOS M but after reading your findings im putting that buy on hold, Zeek commented on his monitor video that he is testing another monitor, he'll share his findings later, do you get pink frames when using 5k script and the monitor at the same time?

[turnlemons2lemonade]

Didn't tried that yet, will do tomorrow. 5K Anamorphic MCM Rewire or which mode?

[ricardopt]

The last build i tried was from 8th September, i choose 4k and 16:9 aspect ratio, dont know what options there are now after the "redesign", if you can try using lower iso and 180 degree shutter rule in 10,12 and 14 bit if you can, thanks.