Author Topic: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII  (Read 2963 times)

yourboylloyd

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Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« on: July 28, 2020, 11:34:15 PM »
Hello ML community,

I recently pre-ordered the Canon R6 but I am blown away by the youtube reviews of the A7S III that was announced today. I'm considering cancelling my preorder but I need advice. From the looks of it, the A7SIII is a better camera all around (maybe except image stabilization). The autofocus looks amazing, the 10bit SLOG looks better than the R5/R6, and the low light looks insane. My main issues are:
  • Price: The R6 costs $1,000 less than the A7SIII
  • Change: I have no lenses, batteries, or anything that is Sony compatible (which means more money). But I have a lot of EF lenses that adapt well onto Canon R series
  • Overheating: The A7SIII doesn't overheat under normal conditions it seems. I can't imagine my self on a shoot and having to wait on a camera to cool down
TLDR: I basically need advice. Does anyone here have experience with Sony? Is it easy to mount EF lenses to it (and have autofocus)? What would you do?

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wib

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2020, 12:07:52 AM »
If I can express my personal thoughts, having been using ML for less than 10 years now, I think getting used to shoot under constrain (batterie life, card space... bugs.. over heat, yes ML makes your camera hot under extreme situations !) makes me want to believe the limitations on the R6 are not a problem.
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ZEEK

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2020, 10:14:06 AM »
I really like Sony having owned the A7RII & A6300 for a while, but I also like Canon.

The R6 & Sony A7SIII are 10 bit 4:2:2, but only the Sony can shoot RAW, 16-Bit RAW actually. Atomos just need to do their bit, and we need to see more evidence of the raw quality taking place.

The Sony is also 15 Stops of DR, has a range of log formats and HLG as well as good AF from what I've seen so far. Also rolling shutter looks good too.

Adapting EF Lenses to Sony should be fine with the improved AF...you could wait to see more tests. I was initially going to get the A7SIII, but I'm not too snagged up about the price. I always used EF lenses on my Sony like the Sigma ART 30mm F1.4 and Canon 50mm F1.2L, manual though. Great colours.

If you need raw, Sony has the upper hand, otherwise the 5D3 + R6 Could be a good combo (Best of Both World's). Hopefully they can somehow fix the overheating through an update or something, otherwise they're fried! 😉
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allemyr

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2020, 01:51:21 PM »
Yes I agree 10 bit should be enough but Sonys 16-bit RAW is super cool, same 16-bit RAW as from the Sony Venice camera? But yeah iam not a big fan of the price atleast here in Sweden.

About the R6, if you going to buy now or soon I would go for the Sony A7s, but if later I would follow what happens with the overheating issue, it might get solved.

Does EF lens autofocus work on A7sIII? Sounds too good.

If EF lenses doesnt have autofocus on Sony in my perspective its best to trade for Sony lenses. This is my advice on very pricy products.

But A7sIII with Canon overheating is a easy choice for me

ArcziPL

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2020, 02:04:29 PM »
Hopefully they can somehow fix the overheating through an update or something, otherwise they're fried! 😉

There is a hope at least for filming with EF-mount lenses.

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/au/news/canon-has-designed-a-solution-to-the-canon-eos-r5-overheating-problem
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yourboylloyd

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2020, 10:41:07 PM »
Thanks for the advice guys.

If I can express my personal thoughts, having been using ML for less than 10 years now, I think getting used to shoot under constrain (batterie life, card space... bugs.. over heat, yes ML makes your camera hot under extreme situations !) makes me want to believe the limitations on the R6 are not a problem.

My whole deal is that I want a system that can allow me to not have to be under constrains. Constrains usually add time. As much as I shoot I want the least amount of inconvience as possible. The a7Siii checks off every single one of these. The R6's seems to only be over heating.

The R6 & Sony A7SIII are 10 bit 4:2:2, but only the Sony can shoot RAW, 16-Bit RAW actually.
The Sony is also 15 Stops of DR, has a range of log formats and HLG as well as good AF from what I've seen so far. Also rolling shutter looks good too.

I don't really need RAW as 10bit log can basically do almost anything that RAW can do in a practical sense (and I hate the inconvience of the Ninja). But the 13 stops of useable dynamic on the a7Siii vs the 11stops on the R5 (confirmed by geraldundone and cinema5D) is kind of significant.

But A7sIII with Canon overheating is a easy choice for me

It's an easy choice for me too until the extra $1,000 plus lenses,batteries, adapters come into the picture.

There is a hope at least for filming with EF-mount lenses.

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/au/news/canon-has-designed-a-solution-to-the-canon-eos-r5-overheating-problem

Canon patent's barely ever come into real life. Can't rely on that!


I think I'm just going to keep the pre-order of the R6 and then send it back if I don't like it. Who knows? Stupid canon overheating engineers making this hard...
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Dmytro_ua

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2020, 09:54:45 AM »
Stupid canon overheating engineers making this hard...

Actually, it may be not true. Due to several experiments Sony overheat even faster than R5 in 4K60 mode.

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Avenger 2.0

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2020, 12:53:07 PM »
Actually, it may be not true. Due to several experiments Sony overheat even faster than R5 in 4K60 mode.
Unfortunately the R6 overheats in all modes. Don't think this will ever be fixable in firmware. Better to buy a EOS R instead for video (or go the Sony route).

yourboylloyd

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2020, 04:43:00 PM »
Actually, it may be not true. Due to several experiments Sony overheat even faster than R5 in 4K60 mode.


This is interesting...

I also realized that I don't really care for 4K as much as a lot of other people do. I wonder how 1080p 24fps does on the R6
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allemyr

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2020, 11:55:02 AM »
This is interesting...

I also realized that I don't really care for 4K as much as a lot of other people do. I wonder how 1080p 24fps does on the R6

If you don't care much about 4k then I would say a 5D3 is a very good choice, if you care more about color and think 1080p is good. IBIS and aucofocus is maybe what you are after but for 1080p 5D3 has a stunning color and image quality. And you will save a lot! of dollars

allemyr

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2020, 11:56:26 AM »
But about the overheating I haven't seen one proper test on it yet. Hopefully EOSHD will make one when he gets the camera.

yourboylloyd

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2020, 07:18:06 PM »
If you don't care much about 4k then I would say a 5D3 is a very good choice, if you care more about color and think 1080p is good. IBIS and aucofocus is maybe what you are after but for 1080p 5D3 has a stunning color and image quality. And you will save a lot! of dollars

I have a 5D2 already. There isn't much point in getting a 5D3 when the only thing the 5D3 can do better is anti-aliasing.
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allemyr

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2020, 08:39:34 PM »
I have a 5D2 already. There isn't much point in getting a 5D3 when the only thing the 5D3 can do better is anti-aliasing.

Only thing, thats a major thing in image quality, I havent seen one video of 5D2 using fullframe that looks good. I had the 5D2 7 years ago and bought the 5D3, the only thing that is similar is the file size the image quality cant be further apart.

Danne

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2020, 08:50:13 PM »
Yeah, 5d3 is state of the art. One thing I can´t understand is why canon don´t use the 1x3(anamorphic) idea in a cam. With a corrected live view image the camera will get the perfect compromise for "chilly" 8k output without overheating issues.

reddeercity

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2020, 03:00:05 AM »
I have a 5D2 already. There isn't much point in getting a 5D3 when the only thing the 5D3 can do better is anti-aliasing.
Yes total agree !!
The R6 is the best I've seen yet from anyone yet even Sony ,
The R6 will set a new Standard --  they will push other camera manufacturer to keep up if there can  :P
I wouldn't worry about the over heating  issue , the lens adapter will solve the issue plus I'm sure that some 3th party manufacturer
will come up with even better solutions , they always do . 

@yourboylloyd you are making the right choice !

Danne

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2020, 08:01:44 AM »
Those that worked with 5diii knows the true capabilities of that model. Not saying 5d2 is bad, but far from 5d3. 5.7k anamorphic for one. Lossless, raw slurp, card spanning. The list could go on. Not even mentioning the long manual needed to enable the presets on the 5d2.
Personally. Who needs true 8k? ISn´t 4k more than enough? Seems like marketing strategy.
Name one third party company solving any of the ongoing heating issues on other brands? I am curious about that.

Avenger 2.0

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2020, 08:40:27 AM »
Looks like those R5/R6 even overheat when taking pictures  :-X
Have more trust in ML on my 5D3 at the moment 8)

reddeercity

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2020, 09:11:19 AM »
Not saying 5d2 is bad
Yes you are , you are just being a dick .
Not everyone has there code aready layed
For them like the d5 cams aka 5d3 from a1ex . All the hard work is over.

5d3 old news , there better cams out there like
R6 , if you can't see the valve of 8k ......

There use to say the same about HD , " who needs it , SD is good enough " infact there use to master in HD and export to SD (720x480) .

Same here with 6 & 8k camera there are the masters for export to HD & 4k .

allemyr

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2020, 09:26:49 AM »
5D2 owners seams to dislike the 5D3, thats very common on this forum. I dont dislike 5D2 but image quality in fullframe is worse.
The 5D3 came to the thread because topic starter said he likes 1080p. But the big disadvantage between 5D3 is lack of autofocus and IBIS.

Do you read what others write Reddercity?

Danne

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2020, 09:36:54 AM »
Yes you are , you are just being a dick .
Not everyone has there code aready layed
For them like the d5 cams aka 5d3 from a1ex . All the hard work is over.
Here we go again.
Not really true about the code. I fixed several bugs and developed a lot of my own functions. If you would follow commits you'd see. I actually was thinking a lot about fixing the quirks on the 5d2. A1ex adviced not to since he was planning some generic d4/d5 solution.
Imo as long as 5d3 is around it will outrun 5d2 and all the rest by far atm. Only based on facts.

IDA_ML

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2020, 01:39:47 PM »
One thing I can´t understand is why canon don´t use the 1x3(anamorphic) idea in a cam. With a corrected live view image the camera will get the perfect compromise for "chilly" 8k output without overheating issues.

They are just afraid that they will have to pay loyalties to ML for using that idea on a comercial basis.   ;)

yourboylloyd

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2020, 03:55:16 PM »
I havent seen one video of 5D2 using fullframe that looks good. I had the 5D2 7 years ago and bought the 5D3, the only thing that is similar is the file size the image quality cant be further apart.
What are you talking about? Entire productions (Iron Man, HOUSE TV Show, and a lot more) and award winning sundance films have been shot on the 5D2. Most were shot PRE-ML RAW. Have you complained about the quality of those things? Your biased argument has no ground. I've actually owned both cameras at the same time as well and can honestly say that there is minuscule difference in ML RAW quality besides the Anti-aliasing. Not being a 5D3 hater though. It's a great and better camera! It just isn't much of an improvement that you are stuck on. Image quality comes from way more than the camera anyway. The lighting and lenses make up 90% of that.

@yourboylloyd you are making the right choice !

I hope so. I'll make sure to do a bunch of comparisons whenever Canon decides to actually ship them!
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allemyr

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2020, 05:15:46 PM »
What are you talking about? Entire productions (Iron Man, HOUSE TV Show, and a lot more)
Besides Anti-aliasing, yes but antialiasing is the only thing I'am suggesting is different and makes a big difference, no edges on object going crazy at anytime how ever you shoot. And on this forum I've havent seen a 5D2 RAW clip that doesnt show those edges when using fullframe. For me atleast I see a big difference in image quality about anti-aliasing between the two.

Audionut

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2020, 12:09:35 AM »
Somehow or another this thread turned into a decade old debate on ii vs iii.

If the debate can't at least stick to merit, I'll close the thread and issue bans for personal attacks.

yourboylloyd

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Re: Advice? - R6 vs A7SIII
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2020, 07:14:02 AM »
Somehow or another this thread turned into a decade old debate on ii vs iii.

If the debate can't at least stick to merit, I'll close the thread and issue bans for personal attacks.

Hey Audionut,

I think it was relevant honestly. I mentioned earlier that I was looking to upgrade my 5D2 and Allemyr was only giving his personal opinion on upgrading from the 5D2. It may seem like things got aggressive, but I actually appreciated his advice. It made me consider other options besides the two that I've listed. No need for bans or what not!
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