Recommendation: Best video camera with ML in 2020 less than $400 ?

[nivekfforhs]

Hey guys,

I'm looking for a video camera with ML for less than $300 ish (USD). What would be the best choice? Any disadvantages and feature limitations with ML for that specific camera would also be appreciated if possible. I saw recommendations of the EOS M, EOS 7D, and EOS 70D which are all within my budget, but are there any disadvantages/advantages between these models that I should know of? I know the 70D has dual pixel autofocus but does that work with ML, and does it work with RAW? It's difficult finding information on the differences of these camera's capabilities with ML.

Thank you for your help!

Best regards,
Kevin.

[yourboylloyd]

Ebay auctioning is a unique skill. The 5D2 is your best bet for such a budget.



If you suck at auctioning, or can't wait that long, then go for the EOS M or 7D. They are honestly almost the same camera in my opinion. The 7D has a better battery, the eos M is way smaller and lighter. They both have terrible MOIRE and aliasing. But it's work aroundable. You can't really go wrong. And if you do, just sell it for the same price back on ebay!

• With EOS M, you can record amazing 4k RAW footage. There are downsides like extreme cropping, but the colors/quality is amazing! ZEEK's youtube channel is a good place to see some cool EOS M stuff. You are pretty limited on record time and datarates, but there are a lot of ways around that lately. Also the EOS M doesn't have headphone monitoring (I think)
• With the 7D, you can pretty much record RAW with no limitations as far as data rates, bit depth, and pixelcounts.  Just keep in mind that the 7D max full non-cropped resolution is 1728x1156 (which isn't really a problem to me). I think you can go up to 2.5K in crop mode on the 7D, but I never use crop mode. It does not have headphone monitoring too (I think). The 7D is also an amazing photography camera!! It's a powerhouse weather sealed beast that can shoot 8fps photos!!

The 70D can only record a max of 5.7 seconds in 1080p RAW. I wouldn't get that. Seems pointless and annoying. I would honestly just try really really hard to get a 5D2.

This RAW calculator may help you my friend. Most of the time all you need to do is shoot in 10bit and get amazing continuous footage: https://rawcalculator.netlify.app/calculator_desktop

Also just check the "Share Your videos" page on this forum. You can find a lot of cool inspiring and innovative things people have done. (shameless plug https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=24823.msg224879#msg224879 )

[2blackbar]

you cant mount cctv mount lenses on 7d, or any lenses that require short focal flange distance, m is better being mirrorless, has speedboooster as well, hard to top that with 7d.

[yourboylloyd]

you cant mount cctv mount lenses on 7d, or any lenses that require short focal flange distance, m is better being mirrorless, has speedboooster as well, hard to top that with 7d.

Great point!! CCTV lenses and the speedboosters are awesome! Cctv lenses are cheap too!!

[nivekfforhs]

Ebay auctioning is a unique skill. The 5D2 is your best bet for such a budget.

Thank you so much for your detailed reply, I really appreciate it!

Since i'm in no hurry I will definitely go the eBay auction route to get a 5D Mark II.
What about the capabilities of the 5D Mark II with ML - can it record RAW continuously too? 4K? And any other reasons why the 5D2 is better than the EOS M and 7D?

Just for some reference, i'm primarily using the camera for video on a YouTube channel where I review tech. So far I've been using my phone's camera which can look okay when using manual settings but i'm in need of an upgrade in quality now. I rarely use autofocus right now, but is the 5D2 capable of autofocus with ML? I only ask this because i'm planning to include some footage of myself speaking whereby AF would come in useful. I've avoided recording myself till now because my phone camera made my skin look REALLY weird and over-sharpened lol.

Again, thank you for all the information you've given me, made my purchasing decision much easier.

[yourboylloyd]

can it record RAW continuously too? 4K? And any other reasons why the 5D2 is better than the EOS M and 7D?

1. 5D2 can record continuously in most resolutions (even in extreme cases). Just make sure you have a 1066x CF card.
2. In crop mode, Reddeercity got the 5D2 able to record 5.6K! But the optimal resolution seems to be around 4K. See: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=19336.msg182476#msg182476
3. The 5D2 is a full frame sensor. Meaning lenses will be wider. Depth of field will be nicer and a lot of other benefits. Just google "full frame sensor vs APS-C sensor" to find out more.
4. Also the 5D2 has headphone monitoring in camera with magic lantern. All you need to do is lug in headphones
5. The season 6 finale of HOUSE was filmed on the 5D2. Some scenes in Avengers, Iron Man 2, Act of Valor, Elysium, were shot on the 5D2. Some scenes of "Black swan" was actually shot on the 7D. And this was all BEFORE Magic Lantern RAW. Adding RAW changed the game.
6. There is an amazing feature film called "Sea Gypsies" that was shot on the 5D3 RAW. It won a couple awards in film festivals and it was a great watch.

is the 5D2 capable of autofocus with ML?

No unfortunately all ML cameras besides the 70D can't autofocus during video. The 5D also has a fixed screen, so you won't be able to film the screen around to see yourself.

Just for some reference, i'm primarily using the camera for video on a YouTube channel where I review tech. So far I've been using my phone's camera which can look okay when using manual settings but i'm in need of an upgrade in quality now.

This is just my advice from here on so take it with a grain of salt. I think this is a tough one for me in terms of recommending Magic Lantern RAW to you. ML RAW quality is amazing, and it's better than a lot of other options out there. But RAW post workflow can be extreme in some cases. It has gotten better with the addition of MLVApp to help streamline the process, however it is still taxing. Some shoots I've shot in RAW can easily use up 200+GB of footage. It also takes a long time to convert footage into somehting useable (unless you use davinci resolve). I think if you are just shooting for youtube and just want to up your quality a little, then just buy a good lens and shoot in regular h.264. A 5D2 and a cheap Yongnuo 50mm 1.8 lens that costs around $60 usd can get stunning footage that's way better than a cellphone. But it is nice to have RAW as an option.

Since us video makers here tend to use manual focus a lot, you can find a lot of amazing MF lenses for cheap too. Here is my list of lenses you can get right now on ebay that are the best ones I've ever used.


The old Nikkor Pre-AI lenses are amazing. Just type "Nikkor Pre-AI" into ebay and you'll see a lot of amazing glass.

Anyway (sorry for going so off topic). If autofocus is a main priority for you. Then just get a canon with Dual Pixel autofocus and call it a day. You can get the ($290) Canon M100. Of course magic lantern doesn't work on it, but at least you can change the lenses on it to get depth of field and stuff.

[nivekfforhs]

Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate all the information you gave. I might go for just an EOS M then because the 5D MK II is probably overkill for my uses, but i'm still very curious about ML and in any case with an EOS M compare to a 5D2 it isn't much of an investment - so I can try out an EOS M + ML and if the workflow doesn't workout I can sell everything back on eBay without much issue .

Do you have a similar chart for cheap lenses for EOS M too by any chance?

Thank you so much!

[2blackbar]

With 5D2 and old manual lenses its not a good idea, generally these old manual lenses are quite bad at corners, i have a lot of them, you need to stop them down one stop at least to get better corners, their focus plane is bent like a bow instead of being straight like on newer lenses.
When using M these corners are hidden offscreen.
You need really good glass for full frame camera, unless you like soft corners that just look bad and wrong.
I think M is a better choice if youre aiming for lower price of all the lenses and equipment for it.You need more $ to make 5D2 shine , its easier and cheaper to make EOS M shine.
Every lens will work on EOS M.You just need adapter for it.fullframe lenses, then you can also use crop mode to use CCTV lenses made for 2/3' sensors or lenses for 16mm cameras.
Hey You can even make a hole with your hand when making fist and put it in front of the camra so light is passing through the tiny hole in your hand, you will see image onscreen, gets wider/telephoto depending how far the hole is from sensor.

[ZEEK]

No unfortunately all ML cameras besides the 70D can't autofocus during video

They can, but not great, at least not reliably. I tested the EOS M2 AF with ML Raw during Video a while ago:
https://youtu.be/DV19WRdpNSA

[yourboylloyd]

With 5D2 and old manual lenses its not a good idea, generally these old manual lenses are quite bad at corners.

I generally disagree with this statement. Some older lenses are sharper and have more contrast than their newer versions on the 5D2 if you get the right ones. Especially in the 85mm range.

Do you have a similar chart for cheap lenses for EOS M too by any chance?

No I don't really own any aps-c/smaller lenses. That list that I gave you was from my own experience in testing on the 5D2. You will just have to google. The EOS M can take almost any lens ever made (except maybe the mirrorless new sony, new panasonic, and new nikons). You can probably just search "SHARPEST LENSES for APS-C" or "SHARPEST LENSES for micro 4/3rds". There are a bunch of EOS M videos you can watch and find out what lenses they used.

[Gomba]

1. 5D2 can record continuously in most resolutions (even in extreme cases). Just make sure you have a 1066x CF card.

I'm also having the very same dilemma as the op though I may spend up to 600$ on the camera.
The only upgrade from 5D II is the 5D III? D3 is out of my league in terms of the price. Is there anything between the two?
80D doesnt seem to worth its buffer size and card writing limit.

I'd to use it in professional music video production and I want to squeeze out as good/long slow motion as possible.

Thanks guys, this post already helped alot!