Author Topic: Canon EOS R5 / R6  (Read 22432 times)

a1ex

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2020, 09:37:52 AM »
Little update at EOSHD with a little help from a1ex and Horshack:
https://www.eoshd.com/news/canon-eos-r5-so-called-overheat-timer-defeated-by-a-single-screw-in-battery-door/#more-24156

LOL, I only pointed Andrew to this link (Horshack's post): https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4513421#forum-post-64281948

Quote from: horshack
Many cameras don't update the values in NVRAM until they're orderly shutdown, ie when the power-switch is turned to off. They keep the values shadowed in SDRAM until then. This is done both for performance and to reduce wear on the NVRAM. You can see evidence of this on Nikon cameras by abruptly pulling the battery and then plugging it back in - any config/exposure changes from the previous session will be lost.

Canon is a little more clever - they have a latch sensor on their battery doors that performs an orderly shutdown whenever the battery door is opened. This prevents an abrupt shutdown. To work around this someone could tape/jig the door sensor so that it's always pushed-in. The experiment would be as follows:

1. Find a way to hold the battery door latch sensor in
2. Power on the camera with the battery door open
3. Record video to the point of thermal cutoff (but not power-off shutdown)
4. Pull the battery
5. Reinsert the battery
6. See what the available video time is

There's a chance Canon periodically updates the NVRAM during the session (or when video recording stops), esp for something as important as thermal management. In that case it may be necessary to pull the battery while the video is actively recording. This may leave the CF/SD card in an indeterminate state so it may require a format when the battery is reinserted.

There are also others who tried this trick in various ways (e.g. in this slightly NSFW clip, or this variation with a battery grip), so credits don't belong to me - I didn't discover anything :D

From what I've seen, the trick works if one removes the battery in the middle of recording, but no longer works if the battery is removed after properly stopping the video. As Canon firmware is pretty much event-based, they probably configure an alarm timer directly on the RTC chip, as soon as video recording is stopped. That could also explain why the camera "forgets" about overheating after removing the clock battery.

A software patch might be relatively easy if one knows where to look, assuming the internals are similar to M50, EOS R and other DIGIC 8 models (I haven't seen the firmware).

However, before attempting to disable these timers, I should get some updated legal advice. If we were to implement this feature, it could raise some eyebrows at Canon :)

c_joerg

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2020, 01:27:19 PM »
Does the R5 support Canon Basic? 
6D

Ant123

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2020, 05:17:57 PM »
However, before attempting to disable these timers, I should get some updated legal advice. If we were to implement this feature, it could raise some eyebrows at Canon :)

Looks like you got legal advice in spring 2019...  ;)

a1ex

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2020, 05:46:17 PM »
Last time I did was in 2014.

stillinsane

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2020, 10:22:41 PM »
Last time I did was in 2014.

Please do, there are a lot of people including me who would pay for the hack. I will save a lot money from not buying the same camera internals in 6 months for double the "cinema" price.

srsa

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2020, 11:57:36 PM »
Does the R5 support Canon Basic?
It's not hard to try if you have access to one. Prepare a script card (confirm that it's working on one of your cameras), copy the script from this post put it in camera and try starting it. If it writes something on card or crashes, then the answer is yes.

But I doubt that it's the case.

Lars Steenhoff

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2020, 01:58:53 AM »
new videos about the topic of timers on the r5
Andrew did a timer test, promising results




Kharak

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2020, 07:58:13 PM »
That Sigma FP almost had it, thought r5 had it. But looks like good internal raw stays with 5d3 for now ;)
once you go raw you never go back

Lars Steenhoff

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #58 on: August 24, 2020, 08:00:43 PM »
Sigma fp has good internal raw, I have one and its great. and if you add the ssd you have very nice 12 bit external 4k

ajay

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2020, 04:45:30 AM »

Danne

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2020, 06:10:47 AM »
 :P
"7. Temperature detection and shooting time control in video shooting have been improved. In addition, the total shooting time when the short-time recording and power-on/off are performed repeatedly at room temperature is improved."

a1ex

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #61 on: August 27, 2020, 07:53:13 AM »
So, patching these timers is no longer needed? :P

Quick look at the R5 firmware update - apparently the same file format as on EOS R, but different encryption key. That means, I cannot look inside.

If our enhancements are still needed, it might be possible to enable the bootflag via UART (which requires access to a physical camera, and some familiarity with digital electronics). Assuming Canon didn't disable the UART port, of course.

Walter Schulz

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #62 on: August 27, 2020, 09:36:45 AM »
According to Gordon Laing there are actual some enhancements.
And HDMI streaming/recording without thermal management is gone for good. Declared to be a bug and fixed.

Nicolai1227

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2020, 10:08:57 AM »
According to Gordon Laing there are actual some enhancements.
And HDMI streaming/recording without thermal management is gone for good. Declared to be a bug and fixed.

I can´t confirm this, I could record external in 4K HQ up to 3 1/2h untill the SSD was full, with cards in. 
So all external recording modes are absolutely usable.

The CFexpress card seems to produce most of the heat, when recording to SD card I got longer 8K IPB and 4K HQ times.
Looking at some exif data, the camera shuts down consistently at 60°C +/- 1

External cooling improves the recording significantly!


Walter Schulz

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2020, 10:18:02 AM »
-EDIT-

Lars Steenhoff

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2020, 12:27:38 PM »
Lets see if the Tilta fan will actuality improve things now with the new firmware
https://tilta.com/2020/07/tiltaing-camera-cage-for-canon-r5/


And the best news of today is that there is a firmware update we can look at :)


Walter Schulz

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2020, 12:33:17 PM »
And the best news of today is that there is a firmware update we can look at :)

And the bad: No easy way back because you just cannot downgrade to a previous version.
Keep that in mind!

Levas

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2020, 01:58:10 PM »
Just wondering about what Walter says...the original firmware of the R5, say the version that's on the first batch out in the wild.
It's nowhere available for download I guess, since it's the original first version of the firmware.

So that means, if everybody does the update to the newer version, there might be a chance that nobody will ever find out how the 'temperature video locking' was controlled originally.
So maybe we never will know if Canon did the 8k videolocking on purpose and not for temperature or safety of the hardware...
 ::)

So this whole new firmware update could also be used by Canon to get rid of some nasty evidence  :P

Walter Schulz

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2020, 02:04:36 PM »
Hanson's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Everything I read about this thingy points to sloppy engineering.

Levas

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2020, 02:17:45 PM »
Everything I read about this thingy points to sloppy engineering.
Indeed, probably the most obvious reason.

But if the first firmware is gone...we will never know for sure.

Danne

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2020, 02:23:11 PM »
I think it´s proven already.
Who knows, the new firmware might even control temperature reports or even change temperature physically with the actual firmware to come clean. If measuring temperatures like was done before it could be this could be compared.

yourboylloyd

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2020, 03:25:19 PM »
Youtube reviews are looking pretty grim. Only slight improvements.

Good news is that my R6 has shipped! So we'll see first hand
Join the ML discord! https://discord.gg/H7h6rfq

SKecorius

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2020, 03:45:22 PM »
If what we think is happening, then Canon is walking on rather thin ice.. There will definitely be someone, who will not update Canon software, donate both cameras (with and without software update) to ML, who will compare what was done to new ones in order to hide information and fool customers. I would highly recommend everyone, who has R5 not to update software, instead look reviews on how much improves video, as well as incorporate battery pull method to extend recording times. Meanwhile, ML will come up with something ;)

Walter Schulz

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2020, 03:54:26 PM »
You may have insights I'm not aware of.
Otherwise trolling.

Ant123

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Re: Canon R5
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2020, 06:23:43 PM »
Assuming Canon didn't disable the UART port, of course.

At least the connector looks similar to R & RP:


and there is a hole in the case for it:


This arc is made of rubber?