Vegas Pro - What workflow do people use?

[masc]

@Kharak: thank you for the help. I exported also in lowest quality setting and got no realtime playback. There is just OpenCL available, because I don't have a graphics card. But why a GPU is needed to just playback a FHD video with CineForm? With ProRes, I can playback a 4K file on this machine.
Both files (10 and 12bit) were exported with identical quality settings, and with identical input data, from MLVApp. Only the 12bit/10bit setting was different. You could test yourself also with the latest ffmpeg executable and any video file.

[timbytheriver]

@masc

Agree with @Kharak that basic Cineform 1080p should always play like butter as it was designed for lower powered systems I believe (apart from the Film Scan flavours!) If in Mac, there used to be a system preference pane that controlled certain codec functions. Might check there if appropriate?

Re QT gamma shifts in Resolve/Mac read this thread on the Blackmagic Forum. The definitive answer:  https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=114047
 

[masc]

@timbytheriver: Quicktime can't playback those files at all, same for VLC. The only application which shows an image is Resolve, so the codec support seems to come with Resolve. But no idea what exactly Resolve does here - same for ffmpeg. Is there any way to make the tags and metadata visible? I just see this with MediaInfo:

ID :
1
Format :
CineForm
Codec ID :
CFHD
Codec ID/Info :
CineForm High-Definition (HD) wavelet codec
Duration :
1 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode :
Variable
Bit rate :
253 Mb/s
Width :
1 856 pixels
Height :
1 044 pixels
Display aspect ratio :
16:9
Frame rate mode :
Constant
Frame rate :
25.000 FPS
Color space :
YUV
Scan type :
Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) :
5.214
Stream size :
30.1 MiB (99%)
Color primaries :
BT.709
Transfer characteristics :
BT.709
Matrix coefficients :
BT.709

Edit: one funny thing is: if I resize to a width of 1920 or 3840 pixels, MPV player is able to show the 10bit and the 12bit clip. Color is identical in both and identical to MLVApp.

[Kharak]

I have never rendered cineform to a lower res than HD. But i have rendered to every weird ratio and resolution above HD and it always played nicely (except the 8k ones).

Cineform should be resolution agnostic unlike DNxHD, but apparently it has quirks with < HD res.

As you know, Resolve gets its power from the Gpu and all the Decoding is done by the GPU.

How does a dng sequence play for you in resolve?

[Danne]

@kharak, @timbytheriver.
To confirm buttersmooth playback could you export and test a few files from mlv app or ffmpeg directly? Or maybe masc could provide you with a few files.

[timbytheriver]

@Danne Happy to render out to Cineform if @masc requires. Don't know how to render using ffmpeg command line though.

I had to remove my re-install of Cineform Studio from the other day as it kept crashing. Confirm that QuickTime OSX doesn't play CF files natively (even with CF Studio installed) – it does some sort of converting in that case. The player that did use to work natively with CF was the old QT7 player – long gone I believe.

The man who co-invented/engineered CF is David Newman https://cineform.blogspot.com/ He might be able to help out – and would certainly know about the active metadata side. He's very approachable.

PS Clarifying: also for me CF only plays [smoothly] in Resolve. All other players don't play at all, whether CF Studio is installed or not. QTX player converts during load if CF is installed – doesn't play at all once CF Studio is removed.

[Kharak]

Yes, i can. With mlv app 1.11?

@timby try MPV player.

[timbytheriver]

@Kharak Thanks. Which build should I use? (on Mac) https://mpv.io/installation/

[Danne]

Yes, i can. With mlv app 1.11?

@timby try MPV player.

If on mac you could compile using my compiler on mlv app first page.

[Kharak]

@Kharak Thanks. Which build should I use? (on Mac) https://mpv.io/installation/

I am on Windows, so i cant recommend a version for you, sorry. But I think they are all more or less the same at the core, some versions might have scripts or plugins enabled. But the player should play anything you throw at it and without the dreaded gammashifts from QT and VLC.

[timbytheriver]

Thanks @Danne @Kharak

Have installed MPV player. CF file rendered from MLVApp crashes it. The only app playing the file correctly is Resolve so far.

[Kharak]

sorry, I thought Cineform export was incorporated in Mlv app 1.11.

I never use ffmpeg, can you give me a ffmpeg command line for exporting cineform from MLV(if possible)?

[Kharak]

Thanks @Danne @Kharak

Have installed MPV player. CF file rendered from MLVApp crashes it. The only app playing the file correctly is Resolve so far.

Can you render DNG - Cineform from Resolve and play it with MPV, just to make sure there is no OS issues causing this.

edit: https://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Encoders-Converter-DIVX-Related/GoPro-CineForm-Decoder.shtml (win only) I have this, but I never felt this helped me. It did not seem like any difference having the decoder running or not running, my computer played the CF files no matter in MPV.

re-edit: The last ~20 posts should have its own thread. Will be hard looking this up via Vegas Pro thread in the future.

[timbytheriver]

Can you render DNG - Cineform from Resolve and play it with MPV, just to make sure there is no OS issues causing this.

Hah! That worked. Thanks @Kharak MPV plays the CF file rendered YUV 10bit and RGB 16bit option from Resolve from DNGs.

[masc]

As you know, Resolve gets its power from the Gpu and all the Decoding is done by the GPU.

Yes, I know... the main problem why it works on a few computer around me.

How does a dng sequence play for you in resolve?

At 1/4 resolution it is smooth. But for DNG, Resolve has to decode and to process, while Cinform has just to be decoded. ProRes 4K runs smooth!

Yes, i can. With mlv app 1.11?

Nope. You need the latest revision. You have to compile yourself.

I never use ffmpeg, can you give me a ffmpeg command line for exporting cineform from MLV(if possible)?

Hmm... try something like: (in MLVApp I use 2 hand full of more options...)

Code: [Select]

ffmpeg -i input.mov -c:v cfhd -quality 12 -pix_fmt gbrp12le output.mov

Have installed MPV player. CF file rendered from MLVApp crashes it. The only app playing the file correctly is Resolve so far.

I used 0.28.2 (latest working on Mavericks). I had no single crash with it. But diashows, or black screen. Therefor the color is way better than in Resolve.

A 12bit Cineform file processed by MLVApp:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhwmqqtnunw01z4/M23-1205.mov?dl=0
LOL... how great is that? Dropbox can play it back very smooth!

[Kharak]

Btw, i believe MPV also requires a GPU to run properly.

Does it play other codecs? Like dnxhd, h264 and prores?

[allemyr]

You need less GPU power then you think for 1080p CDNG at 25fps for realtime playback. Ofcourse integrated doesnt work but any GPU Nvidia 780Ti and up manage.

I have realtime playback in Ultra HD 25fps CDNG and doing superscale that involves noise reduction and sharpening. But then I have my computer for other stuff then Resolve sometimes with several 250W GPUs.

[masc]

Does it play other codecs? Like dnxhd, h264 and prores?

Yes, plays very smooth.

[sahrenity]

Speaking of GoPro Studio, how does the last version works? I recall having constant freezes

[dorelgin]

What about using something a bit less complex? https://www.movavi.com/ has a good video editor, as I recall it's free. Maybe it'll suit.