Author Topic: 1920x1080 24 fps RAW video -- camera suggestions  (Read 940 times)

mlfan

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1920x1080 24 fps RAW video -- camera suggestions
« on: February 24, 2019, 09:32:25 PM »
I have a Canon Rebel xSi and am looking to upgrade to a camera that can run Magic Lantern and record RAW video. Ideally, I would like to upgrade to a camera which can record at least 1920x1080 RAW video at 24 fps. The frame rate does not need to be higher than 24 FPS, but it's OK if the resolution is greater than 1920x1080.

I've been researching Magic Lantern and its compatible cameras for a few weeks and haven't been able to nail down exactly which cameras are capable of this. The best that I could find is this spreadsheet, which is presumably out of date.

My first question is, which cameras with Magic Lantern can record 1920x1080 (or higher) RAW video at 24 fps?

As of right now, I've only been able to confirm that the 5D Mark III that can record at that resolution/frame rate. On eBay, I see a huge price difference between a used 5D Mark III and the other ML-compatible cameras. The difference is so great that I may consider getting a camera that has almost a 1920x1080 resolution but can run at 24 FPS. So my second question is, if you were to pick a non-5D Mark III camera that is as close to my desired specs as possible, which one would you pick, and why?


littlebobbytables

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Re: 1920x1080 24 fps RAW video -- camera suggestions
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2019, 03:40:03 PM »
I have a Canon Rebel xSi and am looking to upgrade to a camera that can run Magic Lantern and record RAW video. Ideally, I would like to upgrade to a camera which can record at least 1920x1080 RAW video at 24 fps. The frame rate does not need to be higher than 24 FPS, but it's OK if the resolution is greater than 1920x1080.

I've been researching Magic Lantern and its compatible cameras for a few weeks and haven't been able to nail down exactly which cameras are capable of this. The best that I could find is this spreadsheet, which is presumably out of date.

My first question is, which cameras with Magic Lantern can record 1920x1080 (or higher) RAW video at 24 fps?

As of right now, I've only been able to confirm that the 5D Mark III that can record at that resolution/frame rate. On eBay, I see a huge price difference between a used 5D Mark III and the other ML-compatible cameras. The difference is so great that I may consider getting a camera that has almost a 1920x1080 resolution but can run at 24 FPS. So my second question is, if you were to pick a non-5D Mark III camera that is as close to my desired specs as possible, which one would you pick, and why?

That spreadsheet is a bit out of date, but does present what is fairly stable in terms of raw video. What is not shown on this spreadsheet are the more new/bleeding edge features such as lossless compression,lower bit depth, 3k/4k and other smaller tweaks and improvements for various cams.
https://builds.magiclantern.fm/experiments.html

The cheapest Cam that does decent full sensor width at 24fps without the experimental tweaks is the 50D, which is what I have(in crop mode it can do 1080p). If you want to spend just a little more, get a 7D if you want more resolution and audio. If you don't need continuous recording or are fine with experimental lossless compression you could go for a 6D for a little more money, this bumps you up to a full frame sensor. Next up would be the 5D mark II. This currently probably the number 2 cam in terms of features and stability for ML behind the mk3, but that could change anytime depending on various factors.
50D, 300, BMPCC4K

IDA_ML

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Re: 1920x1080 24 fps RAW video -- camera suggestions
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2019, 04:30:21 PM »
So my second question is, if you were to pick a non-5D Mark III camera that is as close to my desired specs as possible, which one would you pick, and why?

If you don't mind the fairly large crop factor, you may consider the 100D or the EOS-M.  In their crop recording mode these two cameras can record very high-quality RAW video.  Here are two short videos, shot with the 100D, that illustrate this:

https://vimeo.com/266871797

https://vimeo.com/285334589

With the latest experimental builds and developments, the 100D can record at 10 bits with lossless compression at 2320x1306/24 fps and 2544x1432/18 fps continuously with sound.  As far as I know, the EOS-M can do even a little bit better than that but I don't have this camera.

My favorite camera for ML RAW video is the EOS 7D mentioned in the previous post.  In its crop mode it can record 2496x1196/10 bit/24 fps with sound and 2520x1200 without sound.  It is my favorite not only because of the very high video quality and sensor dynamic range but also for this quite amazing cinematic look it adds to the footage.  Here is a video shot on the EOS 7D in its crop mode:

https://vimeo.com/265597058

Good luck!

mlfan

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Re: 1920x1080 24 fps RAW video -- camera suggestions
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 01:54:20 AM »
Thanks for the info, littlebobbytables and IDA_ML.

I should have provided one additional important bit of information in my original question: I'd like to record 1920x1080 at 24 FPS with a 16:9 aspect ratio. IDA_ML, when you say the EOS 7D can record at 2496x1196/10 bit/24 fps with sound...what is the aspect ratio? Can the aspect ratio be picked independently of the pixel resolution?

I also have some follow-up questions:

1) What is "crop mode" or "crop factor"?
2) When you mention the Canon 7D, you mean the Canon 7D -- NOT the Canon 7D MK II, correct? (It doesn't appear that the 7D MK II is supported by Magic Lantern.)
3) What's the highest RAW resolution that the 5D MK II can do with sound?

FWIW, I may have narrowed down my choices to the 5D MK II and the 7D, so I'm interested in learning the pros and cons of each.

IDA_ML

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Re: 1920x1080 24 fps RAW video -- camera suggestions
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2019, 10:58:24 AM »
1) Please look up  "aspect ratio" and "crop factor" in Wikipedia.  You can set a wide range of aspect ratios and resolutions in ML.  The numbers that I indicated are the maximum resolutions achievable at 24 and 18 fps.

2) Yes, the very first version of the 7D

3) I don't know.  Don't have the 5D2.

jpegmasterjesse

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Re: 1920x1080 24 fps RAW video -- camera suggestions
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2019, 06:56:44 AM »
5d2 is great, but with some drawbacks.

1080p isn't possible, but 1856 x 10?? is close enough, and still far superior to 8-bit compressed 1080p. You can exceed 1080p at 5x zoom in a standard nightly build, and the recent experiments with crop_rec have led to roughly 3k at 5x zoom.

Out of all of these modes, the standard MLV_REC at nearly 1080p is great, and with bit reduction and a fast CF card you can get continuous recording. I haven't checked a nightly in a while - not sure if bit reduction is standard or still more experimental.

That said, and maybe it's just my 5d2, I get serious vertical line noise even with RAW. The sensor on the 5d2 is highly susceptible to this kind of pattern noise. Maybe it's a symptom of age or overuse, but the image starts to fall apart at 800 ISO. That, and moire becomes pretty bad and more noticeable when you're shooting raw.

The fact that you can get a full frame camera that's excellent at stills and can do 1080'ish raw for like $500 is still pretty amazing.


reddeercity

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Re: 1920x1080 24 fps RAW video -- camera suggestions
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2019, 08:51:05 AM »
5D2  is the second best camera to get (1st is the 5D3)
Max size is 1856x1248 @29.97fps in 1:1 FHD (Full View HD) & 2144x1074 @ 29.97 fps in 3x crop_mode (3x crop factor - e.g. 24mm=>72mm) (1:1 pixel no line skipping)
Now for continuous recording with a fast CF card e.g. (Lexar 1066x , is what I use)
1856x1044 10bit @ 29.97fps is almost continuous (around 2-4min) @ 23.976 fps with frame override enabled to exact , continuous recording
is possible with Audio enabled @ 44.1kHz in mlv_rec , not to mention 1080i60 4:2:2 HDMI (can be switch to 480p for Evf monitoring )
In 3x crop_mode 2144x872 @ 23.976 is continuous or close to it .

Noise wise , the sweet spot is 100 ISO with close to 11 stops of light , the ISO range for video is 100-800 ISO max with ETTR .
I never go over 400 ISO Ever if needed above that I add lots of light , so I don't have any issue with noise -- thou I mainly
work in Adobe CS6 After Effect ACR , which has superior noise reductions tools and I export in to log space ProRes 4444XQ
So I don't see any noise issue above any other camera.


If you go to https://builds.magiclantern.fm/experiments.html page you will find this
https://builds.magiclantern.fm/jenkins/job/raw_video_10bit_12bit/51/artifact/platform/5D2.212/magiclantern-raw_video_10bit_12bit.2018Oct10.5D2212.zip
this build let you record 10, 12 & 14 raw video , where the nightly build only record in 14bit raw (high data rate)
And with highly bleeding edge development , the 5d2 can record 3008x1080 @ 23.98 in crop_mode with a special crop_rec module
The build download link & information can be found at 3K/UHD 5D2 Raw development and Other Digic IV Cams  with a picture tutorial on how to install & run

Hope this helps

dariSSight

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Re: 1920x1080 24 fps RAW video -- camera suggestions
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2019, 08:07:08 PM »
Thanks for the rundown Reddeercity, I've been asking for two some of the info you just posted. Please answer one more question, Which Log Profile are you using and where to get it from?
Canon 5D Mark II