Author Topic: Another reduced gain video  (Read 836 times)

70MM13

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Another reduced gain video
« on: November 25, 2018, 02:48:47 AM »
Addendum:  here's the finished version:

https://youtu.be/W1jrxnZryDQ


Shot entirely at ISO 111 (dropped from 200)


Danne

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2018, 03:12:49 AM »
Could you share your exact settings in iso gain register menu that you used?

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2018, 12:49:45 PM »
All I did was 0xFE 0, and ADTG preamp 3.

Exposed for no highlight clipping.

I shot it a few weeks ago and the camera settings may have changed slightly since then, but I'm fairly certain that this was it.

No way to be absolutely sure.  I don't keep notes.


Danne

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2018, 01:36:34 PM »
Ok, I tested your settings and used the raw_diag.mo to see if any more dynamic range was produced. No notes but checking the images and the raw_diag.mo numbers. Setting 0xFE 0 to zero seemingly affects dynamic range but doubt I could see the cahnge in the image. Adding ADTG preamp 3 to 3 decreased dynamic range significantly and lowered brightness. Checking the output it seems iso 200 was lowered to 100 but if keeping iso 200 and not touching the registers at all filming exposed to the right and then lowering the output matching the iso reg change in brightness showed more or less the same result. Sorry to say.

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2018, 02:02:36 PM »
I'm not surprised, but for me it's all about better shadows.  When I lift them it is better than stock ISO.

The video shows what I'm saying.

It works for me...

Danne

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2018, 02:10:03 PM »
The easy way to test is to do this:
Set iso to 100(stock iso) and do your exposure settings.
2 - set stock iso to 200 and film.
3 - now keep exposure but do your iso reg settings and film
4 - compare recordings. Should look fairly the same.

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2018, 02:15:27 PM »
Will do.

Keep in mind that I am not really doing anything elaborate with any hidden registers.  I don't even try to do anything special, just drop gains for cleaner shadows.

I still think that if this was done by someone serious (like you, Danne!) It could be improved greatly...

I'm into filming.  You guys are the scientists!

Danne

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2018, 02:24:36 PM »
just drop gains for cleaner shadows.
That's the thing, placebo :).

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2018, 02:42:40 PM »
I respectfully disagree.

In the year I've been using this method, I've always gotten better results than with stock ISO, even for stills.

To get similar shadows requires a much higher ISO, and then the highs get clipped.

It may be that my shooting style is simply better suited for this mode, but getting better results is no placebo.

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2018, 02:47:45 PM »
For my next video, I'll do a comparison in actual use.

I'll shoot with both modes when possible...

Danne

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2018, 02:53:15 PM »
All we need two seconds of each clip. Takes about 10 seconds to do.

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2018, 03:08:41 PM »
Ok, I'm on it...

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2018, 03:46:03 PM »
You were right!

The test as you instructed yields almost identical results.  It's not worth the effort to upload nearly identical samples.

I still hope someone digs deeper into these registers to make bigger improvements!

This is only scratching the surface.  Two registers out of how many?

Danne

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2018, 04:06:15 PM »
More like canon should have skipped base iso 100 and started out at iso 200.

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2018, 04:27:30 PM »
100 stock ISO is pretty horrible, indeed.

That's one place where gain reduction is definitely good, making a great looking "100" out of 200 to get better outdoor and other very bright shots.

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2018, 05:41:38 PM »
I did more tests using your methodology and found that the shadows really are about the same as stock 200.

This is actually a good thing.

What this means is shooting at "ISO" 111, but with ISO 200 shadows.

Stock ISO 100 is junk, and it is great to have this alternative that actually looks good.

And again, there's all of those other registers.  How much better can it get?  Who knows?

I'll be using stock ISO 200 for less demanding shots, but I'll definitely keep using 111 for the tough ones, like almost everything in this video.

Danne

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2018, 05:54:28 PM »
I'll be using stock ISO 200 for less demanding shots, but I'll definitely keep using 111 for the tough ones, like almost everything in this video.
I don't get it. Why shoot with iso 111 when you get the same results using iso 200 without the hassle of going through registry changes?

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2018, 07:10:31 PM »
Because sometimes a lower ISO is just better, like outdoor shots.

It's nice to be able to drop to the 60 range also for extreme cases.

It's just useful to have the capability...

IDA_ML

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2018, 08:28:42 PM »
70MM13,

In my opinion, your video is too dark.  There is no detail in the darkest areas.  I understand that you did this for artistic reasons but if you really want clean shadows while preserving detail in them, I suggest you try Dual ISO.  Settings like 100/800 or 200/1600 will provide very clean results while you will gain almost 3 stops of dynamic range.  This allows you a lot of headroom for protecting the highlights.  For very demanding shots, you can use the 3K croped mode providing up to 3072x1728 (16:9) resolution.  The quality will be even better.

lucoctober

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2018, 09:30:03 PM »
100 stock ISO is pretty horrible, indeed.


Maybe I'm wrong, but i guess that base iso of 5dIII is 160 and that's why.

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2018, 10:18:44 PM »
It's definitely dark, but I don't know about lack of detail in the shadows.  Are you sure you're viewing it in fullrange?  If you're watching it at 16-235 you'll be missing the shadows and highlights.

I've been tinkering with dual ISO now that Danne made the builds for the 5D3...

70MM13,

In my opinion, your video is too dark.  There is no detail in the darkest areas.  I understand that you did this for artistic reasons but if you really want clean shadows while preserving detail in them, I suggest you try Dual ISO.  Settings like 100/800 or 200/1600 will provide very clean results while you will gain almost 3 stops of dynamic range.  This allows you a lot of headroom for protecting the highlights.  For very demanding shots, you can use the 3K croped mode providing up to 3072x1728 (16:9) resolution.  The quality will be even better.

Danne

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2018, 06:29:15 AM »
I liked the video very much. Clean shadows too :)

Kharak

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2018, 11:15:47 AM »
Can you elaborate on why ISO 100 is unusable?

I believe of all the stock ISO’s iso100 had the highest DR, according to some graph a1ex posted in ISO reg thread long time ago. In same post i believe he mentions the ISO 66 and its even higher DR (~0.5 stops)

I shoot a lot in iso 100 ettr and have not noticed any issues with shadows.
once you go raw you never go back

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2018, 12:27:16 PM »
I liked the video very much. Clean shadows too :)

Thanks, Danne!

Kharak, it's (just under) ISO 200 that's the sweet spot.

We're talking about lifting shadows to maximise dynamic range when capturing highlight details without clipping.

Pulling up dark shadows with stock ISO 100 is not a good thing.

70MM13

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Re: Another reduced gain video
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2018, 06:25:01 AM »
updated original post with link to the finished version on youtoob

https://youtu.be/W1jrxnZryDQ