Danne's crop_rec_4k, 5DIII

Started by Danne, November 09, 2018, 05:11:37 PM

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parallel visuals

As an owner of both the M and the 5D3, I share my thoughts:

I would guess that huge increase of the popularity of the M is mostly because of much more youtube videos about that: actually I have also found ML because an EOS M video just has popped up one year ago. And I have learnt only later that you can do similar things with other Canon cameras.

Price: as far as I understand, when all the ML development had started, the price difference between the M and the 5D3 was much higher, but now with the popularity of the M (and the drop of the 5D3 prices due to the advent of the R series), it is not that much of a difference any more, I agree. But it is still cheaper, so if someone starts to do videography, might feel safer to start with a more budget-friendly option.

Main advantages of the 5D3: to me it is a huge improvement over the M that it has a native 1920x1080 resolution with native 3x3 binning: the image is gorgeous even in the plain 1080p mode, and can be used up to 60 fps. (I personally don't really use other modes on the 5D3, 1080p is sharp enough to me on any monitor in a normal viewing distance. I really enjoy the manageable file sizes and quick editing.) Moreover, it is one of the best stills camera on the market: reliable autofocus and very good pictures straight out of the camera even in low light. For professional video and photo work I would definitely grab this one.

Main advantages of the EOS M: the best thing about it its small size and weight, with the 15-45mm kit lens I can literally fit into the pocket of my jacket, so I take this one if I go for a small excursion or meet friends. And even on a festival I can work quite unnoticed with the M. Another plus is the adaptability of the M mount, I sometimes use it with smaller EF-M lenses, or with EF lenses with the Viltrox speedbooster. The only downside for me is the line skipping in the 1080p mode, but the artefacts can be avoided using a shallow depth of field and/or soft lenses. For very detailed scenes using the anamorphic and the high resolution modes are the way to go, at the price of higher file sizes. And who knows, at some point we might get digital 3x3 binning, where the three lines are added before being written out to the card, to make a super1080p mode. After all, so many developments have happened that noone thought possible before!

So both have their place in my workflow and it is great that Danne is developing for both so I can use ML builds that have pretty similar functionality.

vastunghia

Quote from: parallel visuals on February 01, 2023, 05:33:17 PM
As an owner of both the M and the 5D3, I share my thoughts

Thanks for this.

Yes, I think mostly it is Zeek's fault ;D if M is shadowing the 5D3.

I agree that resolution is overvalued most of the times — particularly if the final goal is to share your videos on YT, as they will be watched by users in some small floating window on their smartphone screen at some low resolution / high compression.

I guess that the intended use case should always be the main driver in choosing your cam. For instance, I'm shooting video mainly to conserve memory of relevant family moments, to be watched on a (not huge, but still much bigger than a smartphone) 4K UHD HDR TV screen. And 14-bit 1x1 3.5K (which should be called 3.7K according to UHD standard btw) encoded into HEVC Main10 profile shines like a jewel on it (if only I were good at grading, that is :-[ but I'm learning). I can definitely tell the difference with 1080, especially if it is 3x3 (I have a 70D too, and btw heaven knows how much I miss DPAF on 5D3). So yeah, in my case choice of 5D3 is no brainer... I got one used for 300 bucks some time ago and that is the deal I'm most satisfied of. Ever.

S

5D3 for video
70D for photo

Danne

New builds:

Testing if grayscale framing preview could get even faster

vastunghia

5D3 for video
70D for photo

dpjpandone

Danne:

while (((white-black) >> div) >= 700)

good idea!

playing with it now, (btw I asked you about frozen vs/ gray ultra fast I have figured out that frozen call's ultrafast when need for speed kicks in)

why this:

if (get_ms_clock() - last_hs_unpress > 300) ?



dpjpandone

OK, I did not add this (because I don't understand it)

if (get_ms_clock() - last_hs_unpress > 300)

but I found that the other changes certainly speed up the refresh rate of gray ultrafast, however I saw a consistent 1-2 MB/s drop (From 91.2MB/s to 88.3MB/s) in SD card write speed. I went back and forth testing before and after the changes to confirm. I guess this is the meaning of "Be Gentle, save for recording"


Got consistent "Frame order error Slot" when buffer filled up

ShittyWebsite

Quote from: Danne on February 01, 2023, 11:22:49 PM
New builds:

Testing if grayscale framing preview could get even faster


Very good update


dpjpandone

Quote from: Danne on February 02, 2023, 11:21:36 PM
New builds:

Testing this suggestion:
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=25287.msg241992#msg241992

I'm pretty happy with the balance between speed and stability with those values.

I now understand that:if (get_ms_clock() - last_hs_unpress > 300) is to make switching back and forth faster. This is good. personally 200ms is perfect for me

When you have a moment could you please explain lowering the gamma and white levels to <700 ? in raw.c:
while (((white-black) >> div) >= 700)

I can't figure out what (or why) this does?




Danne

Gamma lowers gamma. It should help with speed. Feel free to test by returning the values to 1024 and see if you notice and difference in speed.

dpjpandone

Refresh speed? CPU overhead? Write speed? Which speed?

Danne

Maybe no gain at all. I am testing by trial and error. Input back full 1024 in later builds. Maybe works equally good.

dpjpandone

I went all the way down to 256 and did not notice an improvement

Danne


Saint

Quote from: vastunghia on February 01, 2023, 07:37:40 PM
Thanks for this.

Yes, I think mostly it is Zeek's fault ;D if M is shadowing the 5D3.

I agree that resolution is overvalued most of the times — particularly if the final goal is to share your videos on YT, as they will be watched by users in some small floating window on their smartphone screen at some low resolution / high compression.

I guess that the intended use case should always be the main driver in choosing your cam. For instance, I'm shooting video mainly to conserve memory of relevant family moments, to be watched on a (not huge, but still much bigger than a smartphone) 4K UHD HDR TV screen. And 14-bit 1x1 3.5K (which should be called 3.7K according to UHD standard btw) encoded into HEVC Main10 profile shines like a jewel on it (if only I were good at grading, that is :-[ but I'm learning). I can definitely tell the difference with 1080, especially if it is 3x3 (I have a 70D too, and btw heaven knows how much I miss DPAF on 5D3). So yeah, in my case choice of 5D3 is no brainer... I got one used for 300 bucks some time ago and that is the deal I'm most satisfied of. Ever.

S
Good afternoon! Where did you buy one and in what condition? Good buy, we can't find it for that kind of money.
Canon 650D, 18-55mm IS , 50mm 1,8, 24 STM. SanDisk Extreme Pro 90Mb/s.

rinski

Hello, I wanted to report that the iso is locked in auto and the shutter is disabled in the latest version 5d3 123, everything else is great, the preview especially.
Thank you.

dpjpandone

yeah thats what happend when you enable "more hacks"

vastunghia

Quote from: Saint on February 07, 2023, 04:23:40 PM
Good afternoon! Where did you buy one and in what condition? Good buy, we can't find it for that kind of money.

Maybe I was lucky. Who knows. I spotted the 5D3 on eBay. I used Auction Sniper to secure it for € 302. That was June 21. It belonged to a professional photographer who was dropping it before shutter breakdown I guess. It had some 400k shutter actuations :o but for the use I make of it (few stills, some video), it is perfect.

Then of course you need to add the cost for a fast CF card...

S
5D3 for video
70D for photo

Mattia

Hi! I'm thinking about buying a 5d3 to use it with Magic Lantern but before doing it, there are few things I need to evaluate:

Do the 3.3k, 3.5k and UHD 1:1 modes offer continuous shooting?

What's the crop factor of the 3.3k, 3.5k and UHD modes?

Does the 5.7k mode offers continuous shooting?

What's the liveview status of the 1:1 and the 5.7k modes? Is it frtp? Is it cropped? How fast is it?

Thanks!

HoDzA.X

hey, I have the 5D3 ML
{Do the 3.3k, 3.5k and UHD 1:1 modes offer continuous shooting?}
the modes like 3.5k is in 1.86:1 Aspect ratio I think, max in 16;9 is 2880x1600 about, cant remember exact pixels. and you can continuously shoot if you have fast cards, I have the gold san disk extreme CF, not the pro. and 128 gb extreme pro sd card. when you enable card spaning I have 2.8k at 16:9 continuous. the crop is 1.5x in 3.5k full, and 2.25x in 2.8k. al the modes have a black-and-white live view but it's fast.
BTW if you select 10-bit or 12-bit you can have continuous.


{Does the 5.7k mode offers continuous shooting?}
it's like 7.5 fps and I don't use it. but it is beautiful.

ps:
you can do 45-48fps in 1080p but it's buggy. in my exp
standard 1080p has a full-time live view. it's very lovely!

vastunghia

Quote from: Mattia on February 14, 2023, 01:18:10 PM
Do the 3.3k, 3.5k and UHD 1:1 modes offer continuous shooting?

I use 14-bit 3.5K 2.39:1 all the time and the only problem I face is that I cannot always accurately ETTR (sometimes I have to stop down 1/3 to max 1 EV in order to get continuous rec). This is also an advantage though, as I'm pretty confident that rec. will stop if I inadvertently were clipping highlights ;)

3.3K is continuous in all situations for me.

For UHD (which natively is 2.61:1 btw) I think you will have to switch to 12 bit, however I didn't test it much, preview is completely broken at this time.

Quote from: Mattia on February 14, 2023, 01:18:10 PM
What's the crop factor of the 3.3k, 3.5k and UHD modes?

They are 1x1 crop modes, so the math is pretty simple here. Just divide full sensor pixel width count by rec. resolution. I recall that 3.5K is perfectly 1.6x — which makes this mode fine even with APS-C lenses 8)

Quote from: Mattia on February 14, 2023, 01:18:10 PM
Does the 5.7k mode offers continuous shooting?

Absolutely.

Quote from: Mattia on February 14, 2023, 01:18:10 PM
What's the liveview status of the 1:1 and the 5.7k modes? Is it frtp? Is it cropped? How fast is it?

LV is not exciting, but Bilal is working on it! So fingers crossed ;) Currently I use fast grey preview on LCD just to have an idea of framing and an external HDMI monitor for focusing. Unfortunately HDMI out is equivalent to the x5 cropped zoom area, so it is impossible to focus subjects on the right or the left of the frame.

My cards:

SD: SanDisk 128 GB Extreme PRO 95 MB/s, Class 10, U3, V30
CF: Lexar 256GB 1066x 160 MB/s UDMA 7 VPG-65

HTH
5D3 for video
70D for photo

koopg

Quote from: vastunghia on February 14, 2023, 07:34:05 PM
I use 14-bit 3.5K 2.39:1 all the time and the only problem I face is that I cannot always accurately ETTR (sometimes I have to stop down 1/3 to max 1 EV in order to get continuous rec). This is also an advantage though, as I'm pretty confident that rec. will stop if I inadvertently were clipping highlights ;)

3.3K is continuous in all situations for me.

For UHD (which natively is 2.61:1 btw) I think you will have to switch to 12 bit, however I didn't test it much, preview is completely broken at this time.

They are 1x1 crop modes, so the math is pretty simple here. Just divide full sensor pixel width count by rec. resolution. I recall that 3.5K is perfectly 1.6x — which makes this mode fine even with APS-C lenses 8)

Absolutely.

LV is not exciting, but Bilal is working on it! So fingers crossed ;) Currently I use fast grey preview on LCD just to have an idea of framing and an external HDMI monitor for focusing. Unfortunately HDMI out is equivalent to the x5 cropped zoom area, so it is impossible to focus subjects on the right or the left of the frame.

My cards:

SD: SanDisk 128 GB Extreme PRO 95 MB/s, Class 10, U3, V30
CF: Lexar 256GB 1066x 160 MB/s UDMA 7 VPG-65

HTH
how do you get framing on lcd and realtime on monitor?

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk


koopg

Danne,
I am using your awsome builds from when you started to release them,
thank you for that.

I allwayse had my "AUTOMATIC" settings for ML
3.5k
Allwayse turning off bit depth from movie tab
and aspact ratio as well.
and tought that, one should handle all of these settings from with in raw tab.
14bit loss less was my goto.

the output was amazing and i was happy with it.
card spanning and sd OC
along with all the hacks
helped to get near continuse shooting,
but I always had random crashs and alwayse crash when some pixeles are over exposed

in one of your latests post here, you have mantioned  running 12bit on movie tab.
so when installing your latest update, I left the bit depth checkbox on 12bit.
Then I was shooting over exposed and didnt not crash and everything feels much more stable.

can you please explain what is the bit depth checkbox different from both tabs ?

thanks

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

Mattia

Quote from: vastunghia on February 14, 2023, 07:34:05 PM
I use 14-bit 3.5K 2.39:1 all the time and the only problem I face is that I cannot always accurately ETTR (sometimes I have to stop down 1/3 to max 1 EV in order to get continuous rec). This is also an advantage though, as I'm pretty confident that rec. will stop if I inadvertently were clipping highlights ;)

3.3K is continuous in all situations for me.

For UHD (which natively is 2.61:1 btw) I think you will have to switch to 12 bit, however I didn't test it much, preview is completely broken at this time.

They are 1x1 crop modes, so the math is pretty simple here. Just divide full sensor pixel width count by rec. resolution. I recall that 3.5K is perfectly 1.6x — which makes this mode fine even with APS-C lenses 8)

Absolutely.

LV is not exciting, but Bilal is working on it! So fingers crossed ;) Currently I use fast grey preview on LCD just to have an idea of framing and an external HDMI monitor for focusing. Unfortunately HDMI out is equivalent to the x5 cropped zoom area, so it is impossible to focus subjects on the right or the left of the frame.

My cards:

SD: SanDisk 128 GB Extreme PRO 95 MB/s, Class 10, U3, V30
CF: Lexar 256GB 1066x 160 MB/s UDMA 7 VPG-65

HTH

Thanks for all your precious info! You've been really kind to clarify all that! I would only like to understand a little more about the liveview. Does it offer correct framing, even if slow? And.. How much slow is it? Could I follow some actor walking in a room, for example?

Sorry to bother you, I just want to be sure before purchasing it! I'm also thinking, as an alternative solution, to use the viewfinder when shooting. Does it work while recording?

Walter Schulz

Quote from: Mattia on February 15, 2023, 10:41:59 AM
Sorry to bother you, I just want to be sure before purchasing it! I'm also thinking, as an alternative solution, to use the viewfinder when shooting. Does it work while recording?

In any SLR (Single Lens Reflex) camera mirror is in "up" position during recording. Thus all light goes to sensor. Vievfinder is completely blocked from incoming light from lens.
https://www.mediacollege.com/photography/camera/slr/
(Secondary mirror not shown in linked description).