Author Topic: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?  (Read 2456 times)

50mm1200s

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Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« on: May 28, 2018, 02:22:19 PM »
I've reached my saturation point today with Adobe software. I work with their products for 7 years now and they gave me nothing but headches. Missed a deadline because of bugs without fix. Is anyone willing to point me alternatives (except FinalCut, I don't work on Mac)?
I always find facinating how open source software work better than a multi-million dolar company like adobe. Not only their software are full of bugs, but also their support for the community is null. They leeched ideas from community and, besides DNG format, they gave nothing back.
Except for some crash's on Rawtherapee, open source software have almost perfect reputation from me. I heard Natron and Blender could make a good workflow, but I need to have the animation functions found on Premiere Pro, such as smooth motion curves and motion blur on objects (vector or png's). I'm also tired of Windows instability. Adobe and Microsoft is nothing but trouble for people that need stability. The only thing holding me on windows is Adobe produts (mainly Premiere and Photoshop).

Dmytro_ua

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2018, 02:33:09 PM »
DaVinci Resolve?

allemyr

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2018, 04:55:01 PM »
What types of instability do you have in Windows?

For a workflow with raw sequences Adobe isn't to good. But for other stuff I like them. Davinci Resolve 15 Studio is for me the easy winner in videoediting. But I know a lot of people are using Lightroom/AfterEffects/PremierePro to handle their raw footage which...

Tony Weller

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 05:58:29 PM »
DaVinci Resolve?

+1 and it's free and chews through DNG files like nothing, free version has no de-noise or sharpening but you can use
CinemaDNG for that and is currently free also, recent update enables loading of MLV files directly

Win win
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allemyr

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 09:26:43 PM »
+1 and it's free and chews through DNG files like nothing, free version has no de-noise or sharpening but you can use
CinemaDNG for that and is currently free also, recent update enables loading of MLV files directly

Win win

What's CinemaDNG? I know that a lot of people has other ML cameras then 5D3, but if you have and still expensive camera like that, go invest further with Resolve Studio :) If you have some Nvidia GPU's the noise reduction is crazy fast, and extremly good! Maybe I grade my footage to heavy and lighten up darker parts of the image to much, but I couldn't live without the Studio version of Resolve. Now its 1/3 of its original price, its 300 euro which is a bit, but very cheap for a program like that, that can improve image quality that much further! I was trying NeatVideo in Resolve Lite, ok it was some years ago but Resolve Studio was so much faster, like 10-50 times. And better :)

ArcziPL

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 10:26:17 PM »
no de-noise or sharpening but you can use
CinemaDNG for that and is currently free also

Where to get a free one? I see a 2 month demo only.
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Tony Weller

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2018, 12:14:55 AM »
Where to get a free one? I see a 2 month demo only.

Yep it's in development but quite useable, there is a final estimated price and it's a lot less cost than Resolve studio for the sake of de-noise and sharpening and direct integration of MLV files including focus dot removal which Resolve does not have.

In resolve you can adjust the default softening and adjust midtone sharpness also there is a sharpen function in the RAW edits which make a useable difference if you don't want to use CinemaDNG as the interface is currently quite clunky but useable.

Also as all photography getting the right exposure at shot greatly reduces the need for de-noising ;)

Happy to show how if you like.






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megapolis

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2018, 06:33:00 AM »
Fast CinemaDNG Processor could be utilized to convert raw data from CinemaDNG or MLV to ProRes. This is very fast pipeline because it's done on NVIDIA GPU. After that transform one could utilize Adobe Premiere Pro or AE, Davinci Resolve and any other software for editing.

The latest version for Windows could be downloaded here:
www.fastcinemadng.com/download/download.html
Linux version is expected soon.

For resolutions less than 1920x1080 that software will be free, you can check licensing info at the site. Yes, at the moment this is evaluation version, final release is expected within 3-4 months. Anyway, one can use that software as CinemaDNG or MLV player for fast preview of raw footages – this is also will be free.

ArcziPL

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2018, 06:58:11 AM »
Thanks guys for all the details!

are you sure davinci resolve enable loading MLV files
It was in the context of Fast CinemaDNG.
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andy kh

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2018, 07:15:37 AM »
Thanks guys for all the details!
It was in the context of Fast CinemaDNG.

sorry my bad

50mm1200s

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2018, 09:04:49 AM »
Guys, I'm talking about video editing ("montage"), not color grading and image processing. Unless Resolve added video editing like Premiere Pro, it's not the solution I'm looking into...
Thanks for everyone, anyway.

allemyr

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2018, 09:11:14 AM »
Guys, I'm talking about video editing ("montage"), not color grading and image processing. Unless Resolve added video editing like Premiere Pro, it's not the solution I'm looking into...
Thanks for everyone, anyway.

Yes they did ad editing several versions ago! I edit my projects in Resolve, since the XML workflow between Resolve and PremierePro seams to be broken in latest PP version.

allemyr

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2018, 09:15:30 AM »
Also as all photography getting the right exposure at shot greatly reduces the need for de-noising ;)

Ok so the program is called Fast CinemaDNG, not the same as the format. OK shure you can use it. I won't tho :)

Well, I "overexpose" my footage a bit, can't overexpose more. Without adjustments to the image it isn't noise of course, its after the grading. Thank you for reading something else.

This video would be really noise with out NR https://youtu.be/kmz92UqqLJA that i made.

50mm1200s

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 10:32:31 AM »
Yes they did ad editing several versions ago! I edit my projects in Resolve, since the XML workflow between Resolve and PremierePro seams to be broken in latest PP version.

Wow, that's nice. I'll look into it. Thanks.

ArcziPL

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 09:16:04 PM »
free version has no de-noise or sharpening but you can use
CinemaDNG for that and is currently free also, recent update enables loading of MLV files directly
Any idea why Denoise and Unsharp Mask are disabled in Fast CinemaDNG? It opens MLV by drag&drop, allows focus dots removal, white balance, curves and exposure compensation. And... that's it. "Denoise" and "Enable USM" are grayed out, I can't click them. The HELP is also not opening... It's very fast in conversion but seems to be ultra limited in features?
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megapolis

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2018, 09:31:45 PM »
To enable any set of image processing modules in Fast CinemaDNG Processor, you need to close current project and go to dialog Options (right tab) - there you can check all available image processing modules. We've done that because sometimes user doesn't have enough GPU memory to utilize all available options.

ArcziPL

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2018, 09:44:26 PM »
To enable any set of image processing modules in Fast CinemaDNG Processor, you need to close current project and go to dialog Options (right tab) - there you can check all available image processing modules. We've done that because sometimes user doesn't have enough GPU memory to utilize all available options.
...the tab "Output and extensions" was also grayed out... First time in my life I see a program, where a project has to be closed in order to access configuration settings. Usually it is the other way round. Thanks for the hint! I know it's still in development but IMO you should change it or at least properly document (bundled PDF does not describe it). I spent also a good 20 minutes to find an option to open .MLV but it doesn't exist. You have to drag&drop or use context menu in windows explorer. Usually ALL importing options are accessible from a menu. But this was at least described on your web page.
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megapolis

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 10:02:31 PM »
The tab "Output and extensions" is gray if you haven't closed the project.
Full manual is expected in a week.

ArcziPL

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 10:10:49 PM »
The output looks now, after enabling sharpening, really good! Great job!
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megapolis

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2018, 06:04:17 PM »

ibrahim

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2018, 12:50:15 PM »
Having been an Adobe user for years davinci 14 and15 has been the winner, however in my case in terms of picture quality I still use After Effects.
The primary reason why I returned to AE from davinci is due to the jumping (automatic zoom-in jump) I got on my cinemaDNG footage in davinci after having color corrected the raw footages. I have written a lot about this issue but unfortunately I never got help so solve it in different forums, including in the BM forum.
I compared the picture quality in AE vs davinci, I have to say that AE is the winner IF your PC is strong enough to pre-load since AE can be painful to edit. This, even though I loved the editing and color grading interface of davinci a lot.

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ArcziPL

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2018, 03:32:31 PM »
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Kharak

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2018, 06:10:29 PM »
Having been an Adobe user for years davinci 14 and15 has been the winner, however in my case in terms of picture quality I still use After Effects.
The primary reason why I returned to AE from davinci is due to the jumping (automatic zoom-in jump) I got on my cinemaDNG footage in davinci after having color corrected the raw footages. I have written a lot about this issue but unfortunately I never got help so solve it in different forums, including in the BM forum.
I compared the picture quality in AE vs davinci, I have to say that AE is the winner IF your PC is strong enough to pre-load since AE can be painful to edit. This, even though I loved the editing and color grading interface of davinci a lot.

Same here, i also noticed the jump zooming on random shots and cant figure out why.

Also ACR simply has the better debayering. In some instances in Resolve the bayer pattern becomes visible if there is a lot of detail in a shot, mostly in crop_rec footage. Also in low light footage, resolve has a lot of FPN.

But resolve is 100x faster and I see myself more and more dropping AE for different projects because it litterally is 100x faster to deliver.
once you go raw you never go back

allemyr

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2018, 07:40:17 PM »
If you have a UHD/4k monitor you can watch this below.

Resolve takes time to learn maybe AdobeCameraRaw in AE is faster to learn.

I like Resolve a lot, but yes it has been taking a lot of time to learn.

Resolve 15.4 Studio Beta impresses me a lot.


Those car racing shots is 4 years old, and it is taken before I new I had to overexpose a bit, so a bit more noise in those,

Kharak

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Re: Adobe is garbage. Alternatives?
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2018, 11:25:27 PM »
I suppose you are using that Super Scale mode introduced in Resolve 15?

I haven't tried v15 yet and will not get to until 2 months from today.

But at 1:25 in your video, those hills in the background, edging from the overexposure. Could you try putting that sequence through ACR? Because, those Edge burning-artifacts is something I see a lot in Resolve. Especially Artificial light sources will burn purple/black at their sources or on or around anything obscuring the light source, generating this harsh digital burn. It personally takes me out of a story seeing those. Perhaps some masking and Colour Pickering could fix it.

On another note regarding Adobe vs Resolve, the colour engine in Resolve beats Adobe anywhere anytime, the looks and richness of the pictures coming from Resolve are so much deeper.

I basically see it being like this:

 Resolve = Perfect Colour but bad debayering, because of that its hard to ditch the digital look.

 After Effects = Okey'ish colour but the best Debayering, giving a clean filmic look.

For me its all in the details. Might not matter to others and most likely not to the end-viewer.

Thinking of getting Neat Video for Resolve, but I don't know how well it deals with bad debayering. Its incredible for NR and detail preservation.
once you go raw you never go back