Best camera to choose (even for RAW)

Started by nice97, February 16, 2018, 03:51:53 PM

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nice97

Hi I'm new here so hi everyone!  :D
I should get a new camera and I don't know what to get.
The main use is video shooting especially raw, and also to take good pictures.

I don't know what to choose between those:

- the 5d mark iii (for full frame, good pictures, raw video. Even tho is a bit old)
- the 6d (for full frame, good pictures, raw video in 10 bit)
- the 6d mark ii (for autofocus, good pictures, full frame and digic 7. I hope that ml will unlock this so maybe it could be a beast in fullframe raw video)

I also saw the 7d for raw video but I think is very very old.

So in the end, should i get the 6d mk2 and wait to ml to unlock it or get an "old" camera like 6d/5diii? Or maybe another one.

Please help me!
Thank you  :)

Walter Schulz

By considering 6D2 you contradicted your indended main use "especially raw".

Make up your mind about what you want and what you need.

andy kh

since your main use is video shooting in raw, u must buy 5D mark III. you can even shoot slowmotion @diffrent fps like 45/50/60 without color moire which any other camra can't. most other cameras has lots of color moire  while shotin in raw especially when you set the camera in 720P including 6D so not good for shootin raw. and 6D mark II may get or may never get ML
5D Mark III - 70D

dfort

You listed all full frame cameras but left out the 5D4.

If you want Magic Lantern and shooting raw video is more important to you than having a Digic 6 or 7 processor in the body then the 5D3 is by far the better choice. Though if money is no object get an Arri.

allemyr

Yes agree Arri Alexa Mini is a great choice :)

The best raw video quality the 5D3 has.

But in my opinion if you have hard reading and deciding this between cameras, you will have a hard time with the workflow and creating videos yourself.

I still use raw video with a Canon ML camera since 4 years, haha, that's so long. What i mean is that it has happen very much in the industri, Panasonic GH5 is a easier way to go, not 14 bit raw, but 10 bit and other features.

But yes deciding camera is soo easy these days. There is still no perfect camera among all companies that's for shure.

5D3 has by far the best image quality, if you are going to save 800mbit/s to a memory card you dan't want to waste it with a 6D or something, that was what I felt when I first bought a 5D2 4,5 half years ago.

Levas

Quote from: nice97 on February 16, 2018, 03:51:53 PM

The main use is video shooting especially raw, and also to take good pictures.


Definitely the 5d3, the camera with the best and most raw video options.


IDA_ML

If budget is tight, you have Canon lenses and you wish to get a feeling for shooting RAW video, get yourself a 100D.  After the latest ML developments and implementations for this model, it has become a fantastic RAW-video camera, especially if mobility is important to you.  The sensor is also very good and provides excellent results in the photo mode.  And later, when you buy the 5D3, the 100D will still be your second/backup camera. 

I wouldn't hesitate to reccomend the 7D, despite the fact that it is fairly old.  Write speed, battery life, video quality and ML functionality are superb which makes it the second best choice after the 5D3 for serious work.  Unfortunately, it is not quite ready yet and it will probably take a while before 4K_crop_recording is implemented.  We all keep our thumbs pressed that Dfort and the other developers succeed with that!

shankar101

hi I am buying a canon 7d classic .  I saw this video and was blown away .
https://vimeo.com/523443470
How do you think can we get this kind of natural look ? Does it take long time to process raw videos ? My Pc is ryzen 5 build  .
which version of magic lantern should I download for now ?
And I think Canon 7d is sharper than canon 5d mark 2 and 3 (assumed just by checking the videos). what do you think about that ?

Walter Schulz

Quote from: shankar101 on April 03, 2022, 03:17:05 PM
How do you think can we get this kind of natural look ?
Proper exposure during recording, proper lighting. And grading in post.
Why don't you ask the maker of this video?

Quote from: shankar101 on April 03, 2022, 03:17:05 PM
Does it take long time to process raw videos ?
Yes. No. Depends on with what you are comparing. How long does it take you to process H.264?

Quote from: shankar101 on April 03, 2022, 03:17:05 PM
which version of magic lantern should I download for now ?
lua_fix experimental build

Quote from: shankar101 on April 03, 2022, 03:17:05 PM
And I think Canon 7d is sharper than canon 5d mark 2 and 3 (assumed just by checking the videos). what do you think about that ?
Utter nonsense. No evidence for your conclusion provided. No hard data -> Just "feeled truth". Nothing to talk about.
In 1:1 cropped mode you will have a hard time to tell ML cameras apart.

Skinny

Quote from: Walter Schulz on April 03, 2022, 05:31:10 PM
Utter nonsense. No evidence for your conclusion provided. No hard data -> Just "feeled truth". Nothing to talk about.
In 1:1 cropped mode you will have a hard time to tell ML cameras apart.
We bought used 5D mk2 and it was..... somewhat not exactly sharp. It almost drove me crazy, but when we cleaned the sensor the problem was solved. So I think it was micro dust particles on a sensor that stick to it over the years of heavy use. So clean your sensor, if you notice something strange. Other than that - it is just pixels. And pixels on FF body are larger so the image should be sharper even with the same lens. Less CA.

I later spoke to one guy from the service center, and he said he saw a couple of such cameras, where after cleaning the image became noticeably better in sharphess. This is not exactly the science, but I can imagine very fine dust particles (less than a pixel in size) scatters light and creates softer image. I can be wrong though.

Walter Schulz

Quote from: Skinny on April 04, 2022, 09:59:54 AM
And pixels on FF body are larger so the image should be sharper even with the same lens. Less CA.

Pixel pitch is indeed larger for a given pixel number. Pixel size and sharpness are not directly linked. Pixel size may help getting better signal-noise-ratio (SNR).

And I have to tell you that CA is essentially bigger on full frame. See Lenstip, OpticalLimits, DPReview, Imaging Resource, The Digital Picture ...
Essentially it is impossible to get less CA with increasing image circle. At least if you compare cropped and non-cropped images using the same lens.
That's why the term "sweet spot" for APS-C cameras using full frame lenses was created: They crop the worst part (= border, edge) out.

Skinny

hmmmmmm it probably sounded too unclear, I mean in the center of a frame, especially if we are talking about crop modes. Edges are worse on the FF obviously.
I'll google it of course...

For real world scenarios, last time I did some tests. Just black text on the white paper was looking sharper using the same lens on the full frame. In the middle of the frame, when exactly in focus.
Of course I was closer to the paper when I was using the FF camera, to get the same field of view. It is how most people will photograph the same object with the same lens but different camera.

I also have some old lenses that are not really sharp wide open when used on the ASP-C, they are just a little bit soft. But it is not a problem for the full-frame camera, everything seems to be ok. Corners may be especially bad, but who cares about corners, right? :) well, I mean if somebody want them to be 100% sharp, for landscape photography or something - maybe they need crop camera and modern razor sharp lenses..
It just depends on what you want to get...

Walter Schulz

Quote from: Skinny on April 04, 2022, 05:49:01 PM
hmmmmmm it probably sounded too unclear, I mean in the center of a frame, especially if we are talking about crop modes. Edges are worse on the FF obviously.

CAs? In the center of a frame? Seriously?

Skinny

Absolutely, tiny color outline around the objects with high contrast, and you can not get rid of it by focusing. Only by closing the aperture. And if for example I'm gonna use the crop mode and film 2-2.5k footage, it will be more obvious with crop-sensor cameras...

It's not only with old lenses, there are somewhat modern wide-angle lenses in which it can be noticeable even without zooming in on the photo, so you have to close the aperture 1-2 stops if you want to get rid of these color outlines. So it's a common thing, at least for me. For example, with green leaves on trees against the sky, on the edges of a buildings and so on.

yourboylloyd

A 5D2 is half the price on ebay as the 5D3. You can shoot using the full sensor in 10bit with pixel binning. Crop mode is incredibly sharp.

Go with the 5D2 if money is the main concern. You won't go wrong. I have three 5D2's and I've been using them for a whole decade now.
Join the ML discord! https://discord.gg/H7h6rfq

Skinny

only one thing - fast CF cards are very expensive these days. for example, 6D has SD card..
and 5D2 still doesn't have working 1x3, you can activate it by doing some manipulations for ~10 minutes :D, I tried it, it works, but there is no preset for it.