Emulating Eastman 400T 5295?

[bpv5P]

Hi,
I just noticed that some of the most beautiful neo-noir movies I've ever watched use the same film stock: Eastman 400T 5295
This includes Black Rain (1989) and Brazil (1985), but I also think that 12 Monkeys (1995) and Blade Runner (1982) [nope, it's on 5247 - thanks @timbytheriver] used it.
So, I was thinking how I can emulate that and I couldn't find any way. Of course, I'm aware that there's many variables while trying to emulate this look.
Filmconvert doesn't seem to have that and there's no 3DLuts available that I'm aware of.
Does anyone know how to do it?

[Teamsleepkid]

i use aces color space in davinci. i grade it completely normal. mainly just white balance. I use film convert. i turn film color all the way off. i set it to 3 perf. i use fuji stock. i set the grain amount to 25. A little saturation and a very small amount of contrast and you should have that look.

[bpv5P]

Thanks @Teamsleepkid , but Fuji stock generally push the shadows to magenta and midtones (zone 4-6) to green. This Eastman 400T 5295 is different, instead of magenta, the shadows go to cyan, and midtones remain neutral. Fuji also has some issues on red reproduction, for my perception...

Of course, to achive the same colors of the movies above is much more complex than just throw a LUT, I'm aware of that.

[hyalinejim]

Just out of interest, have you tried Koji - and if so what is your opinion of its use with ML footage?

[DeafEyeJedi]

Back in the day I used to be able to get wonderful results with the older version of Cinelog-C (2nd release in 2016 before the DCP 2017 update) until when I received a set of specially customized Koji LUT's made by @baldavenger that were meant to work even more accurately in conjunction with Cinelog-C.

It was quite amazing actually. Thanks for reminding me @hyalinejim!  Hopefully @baldavenger is still around... Hi there, mate! 

I am pretty sure I saved this somewhere on one of my external drives. Gotta do some digging since it's been ages and then for me being addicted to your Ektar_100 LUT's has also played a role with me shying away from this yet still bad-ass combo of Koji LUT's together with Cinelog.

Some samples using Koji +Cinelog below:

[Teamsleepkid]

the only thing we're actually using from the fuji is the grain size remember i said turn film color off:) but you you can try to grade it the way you mentioned sounds like you already know what to do...

[bpv5P]

Just out of interest, have you tried Koji - and if so what is your opinion of its use with ML footage?

I've tried it with BMDFilm space, from VisionColor and Rec.709. I've found it to be too much saturated and contrasted. The reds also have a bad shift (skin tones are like a carrot). Not really for my taste, but some people might like it. I haven't tried with Cinelog or others, so I can't tell.
ImpulZ Vision3 emulation works very fine, but I can't achieve similar results to the Eastman 400T 5295.

the only thing we're actually using from the fuji is the grain size remember i said turn film color off:) but you you can try to grade it the way you mentioned sounds like you already know what to do...

Yes, but I would like a automated approach, instead of spending so much time on color grading process...

[Teamsleepkid]

thats what i want too.

[bpv5P]

thats what i want too.

Good point.
Thanks for the tip about the ACES, btw. I'm looking into this new workflow:

CDNG > ACES (1.3) > grading > Rec. 2020 (ICtCp) > DPX or HEVC10bit 4:4:4 (this new "Hybrid Log-Gamma" thing)

Seems very precise, although I don't have these high-end hdr displays.
About the stock emulation, I guess I'll have to do my own LUT if I want that automated.
But I find it very awful that 80's movies have a better look than these new movies recorded with Panavision Millennium DXL.

[timbytheriver]

Hey @bpv5P

Blade Runner was shot on 5247 according to this thread (halfway down): http://www.cinematography.net/edited-pages/red%20eye%20effect.htm

Anyway, Cineform's original First Light grading app (now GoPro Studio) used to have a variety of Kodak 52** LUTs built in: incl 5245, 5246, 5247 and 5293, 5298. They were very good – but were in a format I couldn't translate into anything usable outside their app. It was a great little app for use with their own Cineform codec active metadata. Now I think it's pretty dead. Shame.

PS Found this site, can't say how accurate the info is though: https://shotonwhat.com/

[bpv5P]

Hey @bpv5P

Blade Runner was shot on 5247 according to this thread (halfway down): http://www.cinematography.net/edited-pages/red%20eye%20effect.htm

Oh, thanks for correcting me! It's a great looking movie anyway, a shame we lost these great stock film styles.

Anyway, Cineform's original First Light grading app (now GoPro Studio) used to have a variety of Kodak 52** LUTs built in: incl 5245, 5246, 5247 and 5293, 5298. They were very good – but were in a format I couldn't translate into anything usable outside their app. It was a great little app for use with their own Cineform codec active metadata. Now I think it's pretty dead. Shame.

PS Found this site, can't say how accurate the info is though: https://shotonwhat.com/

I'll read more about this, maybe I can access the internal files and get the 3DLUT data from it...

[nikki]

Get some Kodak film stock ..it’s easy and fun to shoot on film

Video always will be video