MLV App 1.14 - All in one MLV Video Post Processing App [Windows, Mac and Linux]

[Danne]

The mud in the water is modifying the dng starting out in resolve. You're in a domain fixing a problem starting much further down in the chain.
Well. Only interest to myself is that we don't modify mlv app adding unnecessary functions based on vague error seeking.
I'm out for now.
My latest tests are all done with a cdng frame by the way.

[cmh]

Danne there's nothing to be upset about. If people would have find the same results (which is not the case because it seems really hard to reproduce.. I guess) and said well nice finding but we won't do anything about it... Then a-fucking-men, it is absolutely a reasonable answer. Nobody wants MLVApp to change, me included. At least we would have not lost our time on this. Then if my post have been perceived as rude or condescending it was not my intention. It's just a bug report that has to be confirmed type of thing.
Edit: I'll stick around just in case people want some clarifications. PM is also available btw.

[Danne]

Hard to follow you now but I don't see any personal projections on my side. Quite the opposite from what you might think I would gladly welcome any refinements to Mlv app. I still don't see anything convincing in that direction so I would hope you'd take on the challenge and prove me wrong. So let's lift your tests to the next level or just leave subject alone. Agreed?

[cmh]

Sure, what are you proposing ?

[Danne]

Busy here but my thoughts. Mlv app rec709 without tonemap tweaks could be wrong. How to test this? Well. After effects can output prores. If you manage to export somewhat similar rec709 to what you do in mlv app you can compare these two prores files.
On a sidenote. What do you believe is the real issue here? Still in to baseline metadata?

[cmh]

Haha. I'm sorry downloading after effects trial version requires me to enter my credit card number, nope.

The issue? We probably already found it partly because of you. There's a +0.25 exposure difference between ACR and MLVApp because the exif tag sn't there anymore but it's barely noticeable if you use tonemaping and the other +1 exposure that has to be added is a Resolve thing  (maybe only a Resolve on windows thing, maybe just a windows thing but none of you devs have Windows installed, which makes bug reports a bit complicated tbh). Maybe I need to dig in Blackmagic's forum a little harder.

I think all of us went in great length and have been charitable to each others. I'm totally fine with leaving this topic unless someone needs more explainations or someone else come up this same sort of issue (shoot me a PM if needed so I get mailed).

Edit: but comparing with after effects or premiere is a great idea. Baselight would probably be even better since it's the Hollywood colorists heavyweight software. Nuke, Avid (I might check on those later if a trial is available).

Edit again; did I ever told you guys that Windows is free of charge, the only downside if you don't register it is that you can't customize your desktop.

[Danne]

The issue? We probably already found it partly because of you. There's a +25 exposure difference between ACR and MLVApp because the exif tag sn't there anymore but it's barely noticeable if you use tonemaping and the other +1 exposure that has to be added is a Resolve thing  (maybe only a Resolve on windows thing, maybe just a windows thing but none of you devs have Windows installed, which makes bug reports a bit complicated tbh). Maybe I need to dig in Blackmagic's forum a little harder.

Too bad. Hopefully you reconsider finishing what you started and getting the pieces together. Until then. Nothing changes.

[Luther]

Edit again; did I ever told you guys that Windows is free of charge, the only downside if you don't register it is that you can't customize your desktop.

Yep. Direct download links here: https://tb.rg-adguard.net/public.php

[levisfaustus]

Future request, if possible: make auto Darkframe Subtraction from the last frames of the Clip (The easiest way to make black frames is to record a video with the lens cap on the camera on the end of clip). Because Darkframes are every time different - it will save a lot of time. Thank you very much for your work!

[Danne]

Testing dualiso once more. 10bit on my eosm anamorphic(1x3 mode)

Test files(2 frames):
https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magic-lantern/downloads/M03-1358dualisoflicker.MLV

Full MLV file here:
https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magic-lantern/downloads/M03-1358.MLV

No matter what I do I get a slight variation to brightness. The change is subtle but when previewing this in a longer file It shows as flicker. I know the issue is not of high priority but maybe @bouncyball can tell what is going on with post processing? Is cr2hdr processing differently on each file? Depending on what? Borders, brightness?

One goal here would be to try and get both frames exactly matched. Probably should fix the issue?

EDIT: Testing the same file in mlvfs and brightness(white level) is completely wihtout flicker, hmm
EDIT 2: mlvfs also gives flickery ouput...

Edit: tested 12bit, already flicker free. Stay off 10bit on eosm while doing dualiso.

[Levas]

Downloaded your sample MLV.
And processed the dual-iso files with MLVapp to dng's.
I can see a exposure change from frame 20 to 21. Frame 0 to 20 is the same and frame 21 to 26 is slightly brighter.

But when I don't do dual-iso processing and just export to dng's, the exposure change is not there.
So the source/raw dual-iso files are ok 

could it be that it is caused by the light in the back coming from the light bulb.
Maybe test it again outside, without artificial light sources in the frame ?

[Levas]

BTW I just did try the 10bit function in crop_rec on the 6D with dual iso and used MLVapp to process the dual-iso to dng's and I can't see any exposure/hue shifts between frames.

[Danne]

Dual iso has always been somewhat problematic. Maybe you're on to something here. Why it flickers for me and not for you is a riddle.

[cmh]

I def get the flickering on both cdng and prores 422 HQ.

[Danne]

Yea, I tested three files but enabled 12bit and worked without flicker. Anamorphic mode and dualiso works so good so probably should do some more tests. Also gonna fix the line static issue due to irregular a-timer. At least for the anamorphic modes.

[ngemu]

I was wondering if a custom field could be entered so I can choose the video stretch instead of the preselects like 1.33x, 1.55x, etc.

[adrjork]

Sorry guys, almost surely this has been yet discussed before, but I can't find... My question is about Gamma in BMD Film preset.
I loaded my MLVs into MLV-App and I set BMD Film preset to obtain a really flat image. In that preset, default Gamma is 1.0 but it seems to me too dark. I tried 2.4 but it seems too high key. Perhaps 2.0 or maximum 2.2 seems a good middle.
I admit I have not a clear idea: which should be the Gamma value?
Thanks

[ZEEK]

Try setting gamma to 3.15.
Bring down exposure a little, then increase dark strength to get the blacks back.

[adrjork]

Try setting gamma to 3.15.
Bring down exposure a little, then increase dark strength to get the blacks back.

Thank you. Is there a sort of technical reason to maintain gamma so high, or it's just to push the histogram to the right?
I try to elaborate: my purpose is to obtain a flat image out of MLV App for working after in Davinci on exposure and blacks and others... So my purpose is NOT to obtain a “final” result directly out of MLV App.
In this particular case I'm doing a bunch of prores proxies from some MLV files, to work with in Davinci. I'll use these proxies for a preliminary editing in Davinci, then I'll replace them with the real c-DNGs instead.
Both proxies and c-DNGs will be produced by MLV App.

So my question is: should I set MLV App with BMD Film and gamma 3.15, for both prores proxies AND the future c-DNGs? Or it's important to set gamma only for prores proxies (since in Davinci it's also possible to set c-DNGs with BMD Film for obtaining flatting the image)?

And: If I convert in MLV App my MLVs to c-DNGs without changing anything, and then I set BMD Film in Davinci, I'll obtain a sort-of-flat image that is LOT LESS flat then the prores proxies produced by MLV App set with BMD Film and gamma 3.15. Is it because I HAVE to set MLV App to BMD Film gamma 3.15 ALSO for converting to c-DNGs?

Thanks

[ZEEK]

No technical reason for this, pretty much depends on how you expose in-camera. Exposing to the right helps along with zebras.
Whatever you touch in MLV App will not affect the DNG Files as these come straight from the sensor, so no point editing in MLV App if exporting as DNG. Prores, on the other hand, would benefit from grading within MLV App and then doing the finishing touches in another editing system.
With the DNG Files in Davinci, you could possibly tweak the LOG Profiles in the "color management" section.

[adrjork]

Thank you so much zeek! So, if an high gamma value (in MLV App for Prores) is not “technical” but a “benefit”, which is the limit? I can image that the limit is “just before cutting anything in the histogram to the right”, is that right? So, the idea is to push the histogram as to-the-right as possible, in order to enlarge the room of color-grading possibilities (and reducing teh noise).

[ZEEK]

Yes pretty much. Use Exposure value with the waveform/histogram. Expose to the right should be about 0.1 EV but use zebras @100% as well just to confirm you're not clipping stuff in the corners of the frame as the exposure value seems to measure things in the center. EV 0.5-0.1 is a good range. 14 bit/lossless is a good selection.

[Milk and Coffee]

Whatever you touch in MLV App will not affect the DNG Files as these come straight from the sensor, so no point editing in MLV App if exporting as DNG.

@ZEEK does the "RAW Correction" panel affect exported DNG's? No panels affect the DNGS at all?

[masc]

@ZEEK does the "RAW Correction" panel affect exported DNG's? No panels affect the DNGS at all?

Yes it does. The other panels don't.
https://github.com/ilia3101/MLV-App/wiki#export-settings

[Milk and Coffee]

Good to know! Thanks Zeek!